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[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Estebonrober, May 28, 2020.

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  1. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    The term is definitely offensive and intentionally so. It is intended to offend, in the sense that it is intended to disturb folks romantic vision of themselves... specifically that their accomplishments are solely the fruits of their own virtue, thrift, cleverness, worthiness, etc., rather than propped up by external inherent advantages. This is the point I keep making about the NFL kneeling protest, vis-a-vis the larger, Black Lives Matter protests by the public and all the fallout and related protests... the underlying thing about all of these protests is that they are raising awareness and making public complaint about, among other things...racism. And complaints about racism make people uncomfortable, so they don't want to hear it.

    That
    is the conscious and subconscious factor underlying the vast majority of complaints about the various protests, and the reason the same people who condemned the peaceful NFL protests for "disrespecting the flag, troops, country" and similar nonsense, are now condemning the current protests for being "violent" and proclaiming that they would support the protests if only they were peaceful... conveniently forgetting that they were offended by the peaceful NFL protests of the very same thing... the complaints about the protests being "violent" are hogwash. People who are uncomfortable hearing about racism will always find an excuse to be offended, outraged, dissatisfied, troubled by etc., any protest that invokes complaints about racism, no matter what form the protest takes, because being reminded about racism interferes with their internal romantic narrative about themselves.

    Which brings me back to the sentiments you express so clearly in your post. What makes people uncomfortable with complaints about racism, is that it disturbs their romantic underdog vision of themselves. All of us are seduced into the romantic underdog vision of ourselves, whereby we are against the odds and obstacles, in a heroic life struggle to make our way in this world. If we can imagine ourselves as an underdog, then our successes become heroic, having been achieved against all odds... while our failures can be excused, dismissed, as being inevitable, given how the deck was stacked against us.

    Being reminded of racism disturbs that... because it undermines people's internal narrative that they are disadvantaged, and instead suggests that they were in-fact advantaged. So then their successes are not heroic, but simply the expected result of their advantages... while their failures are magnified and inexcusable... because they were coming from a position of advantage, and still somehow managed to fail. Its a very uncomfortable position to be in and so it makes sense that people would be irritated with their romantic self-image undermined.

    So what I want to suggest to you here is that if the term "white privilege" were replaced with the term "black disadvantage", people would not be any more comfortable with it, because it would still undermine their internal romantic-underdog narrative and thus make them uncomfortable. "Black Lives Matter" essentially invokes "black disadvantage" as does "affirmative action"... and yet, people are still offended by them and oppose them. "Affirmative action" and "white privilege" essentially invoke/mean the same thing... but the different terms don't necessarily make people any less hostile to either... because it is the underlying issue that irritates/discomforts... rather than the term itself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
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  2. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    This is a list of over 300 videos collected so far of police brutality during these protests. Almost all of it is completely uncalled for and unprofessional which is a pretty stark contrast to what we saw a few weeks ago about lock down protests. Its telling politically.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lview?pru=AAABcql6DI8*mIHYeMnoj9XWUp3Svb_KZA#

    This list is growing every day dramatically.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/opinion/sunday/police-riots.html

    The police are rioting, we need to talk about it
     
  3. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I disagree. I have stated many times that I'm not uncomfortable with that term. I even suggested it. But again, that's a personal thought and everyone is allowed to react as they might.

    And 'white privilege' does not account for every achievement any white man has. You may say it as an insult with the excuse that it upsets there view of themselves, I see it as JUST an insult that totally erases everything that I've done in my life and used as perceived revenge. Not everyone is a racist. Some more than others but for many it's not a blatant thing. just something that must be resisted every chance you get. And it's not going away till parents stop passing it down to their kids. My father was great about it when we were growing up. I know he must have been trying because as he got older, sometimes he let small things slip. I have done everything I can to not pass it on to my daughter, and I pray that I have. From what I've experienced of her, I think I did ok. We can expect no less.
     
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  4. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Is work ethic an advantage?

    If I just broke the record in home runs and somebody lectured me about privilege I'd feel like they're diminishing my accomplishment.

    You said your circumstances were superior to Obama's and you based that on skin color, that was your advantage. So is that the only advantage a person can have? You just admitted his drive was better, thats an advantage. Maybe he's also smarter and more personable. He had a multi-cultural upbringing so he learned early how to build bridges.

    He was born with some of his advantages and developed others. Which of these advantages was 'handed to him' is another debate, but if you dont think he had any advantages over you, you're wrong by your own admission.

    Looks and charisma are important advantages... Would you agree Tim?
     
  5. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    He needed charisma to overcome his monster ears. ;)
     
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  6. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    I know you suggested the term "black disadvantage". What I am saying is twofold. First, I suspect that if that had indeed been adopted as the term, you would not have been as comfortable with it as you think... but that is rank speculation at best, so put that aside... the more important thing is that I am 100% sure that most people who object to the term "white privilege" would equally reject the term "black disadvantage". Many white people don't like the idea that black people are disadvantaged vis-a-vis white people... precisely because it does exactly what you identify... undermines their achievements.
     
  7. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Humility is another important advantage
     
  8. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I think you'd be surprised at the intersection of people that think black people are disadvantaged and are not thrilled with the term white privilege.
     
  9. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    fwiw I don't think white privilege diminishes my accomplishments. It is a thing though.
    I think that would be an interesting poll. Also I'd like to know the reasons about it. I feel like white americans really hate the idea of carrying the sins of their forefathers. They are pretty quick to prop up the accomplishments of those same forefathers. . .ya know?
     
  10. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    The Illinois senate seat was handed to him in 2004. He was smart enough or well-connected enough to leverage that. And before, he had to be doing something right to be in that senate race in the first place.
     
  11. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    If you accomplished a major goal in life and someone said you had it easy, how would you describe that thing?
     
  12. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    I mean I kind of did have it easy in relative terms. My parents were college educated. They had some resources. In the end I passed the exams myself. In the end I put the work in. The two are not mutually exclusive which is what others have been saying here.
     
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  13. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    No, I didn't. I based that on a handful of things, some of which were certainly related to how people in the 1960s reacted to skin color.

    My friend didn't get to attend public school. I did. That is a huge advantage. My advantage over him isn't "I am white and he is black." My advantage is that in the 1960s the people of my town, with the complicity of my parents, treated my friend's family abominably. What singled my friend's family out is that they were black, but the disadvantage is in the response to that, not their skins.

    You may want to live in a fantasy that since he ended up president Obama must have somehow been insulated from the realities faced by my friend. (For the record, Obama, the friend in question, and I are all very close to the same age.) I'm not going to tell you that you can't revel in your fantasies, but I'm not gonna help.
     
  14. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Way it works here is there is a national standard of training. You get sent off to the police training whatever for 6 months iirc.

    The police are unarmed and there's a police complaints authority.

    Each officer also has a numbered identification badge they have to wear on the shoulders at all times. You're allowed to take that number to lay a complaint.

    You still get complaints about Police brutality and harassment etc but the bad cops do get charged, one recently got convicted of tape iirc.

    The ones who complain the mist are usually the same ones selling pot or making a nuisance of themselves in some way.

    Very few actually get killed by police, it's usually an armed offenders call out. It's 1.5 people a year get killed. Usually in a stand off with the armed offenders squad. The cops open fire if they start shooting or advancing on them with weapon.

    Even then if it's not a fun they get plenty of chances to stand down before a trigger us pulled. If you follow procedure you'll get cleared every time.

    One guy I knew got beaten with a phone book 30 odd years ago. Back then it happened, hell the neighbors could "sort you out the hard way" if you were a public nuisance but weren't technically breaking the law.

    Assault was more if you put someone in hospital or beat up the wrong person.

    They cracked down on that sort of thing in the 90s.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
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  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    This is all extremely true, I know I already liked the post but I just wanted to emphasize how accurate this all is.

    Also want to add that the concept of "white privilege" in no way implies that white people do not face difficulties in life or that their achievements are entirely based on the fact that they're white.

    Again, "white privilege" does not mean all white people "had it easy." It means something on the order of "all other things equal, white people have it easier than people of color."
     
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  16. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    But isn't it more accurate to say that all black men are disadvantages. I'd bet almost 100% of blacks were disadvantage but the percentage of whites that had it easy, while high, is no where near that high.
     
  17. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    It also doesn't apply when everyones white ie small towns in rural areas.
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Free Hong Kong

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    up yours!
    *disadvantaged
     
  19. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Which of the following statements is more accurate?
    5 is 5 less than 10
    10 is 5 more than 5
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis Free Hong Kong

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    up yours!
    You seem to be hinting at a glass-half-full v. glass-half-empty -style comparison, Lexicus.
     
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