[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Berzerker]

No, I didn't. I based that on a handful of things, some of which were certainly related to how people in the 1960s reacted to skin color.

My friend didn't get to attend public school. I did. That is a huge advantage. My advantage over him isn't "I am white and he is black." My advantage is that in the 1960s the people of my town, with the complicity of my parents, treated my friend's family abominably. What singled my friend's family out is that they were black, but the disadvantage is in the response to that, not their skins.

You may want to live in a fantasy that since he ended up president Obama must have somehow been insulated from the realities faced by my friend. (For the record, Obama, the friend in question, and I are all very close to the same age.) I'm not going to tell you that you can't revel in your fantasies, but I'm not gonna help.

We're not comparing your advantages to a black childhood friend who couldn't attend public school, you said your situation was superior to Obama's. Was your education better? Obama had advantages over you, his skin color was not one of them. But intelligence, charisma, looks, temperament, drive, etc... He had plenty going for him.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We're not comparing your advantages to a black childhood friend who couldn't attend public school, you said your situation was superior to Obama's. Was your education better? Obama had advantages over you, his skin color was not one of them. But intelligence, charisma, looks, temperament, drive, etc... He had plenty going for him.

Since you insist on repeating the same absurd misrepresentations as if you are too stupid to understand any reply, and I actually know that you aren't stupid at all, I have to either keep beating fresh answers out, or just quote the answer you are already ignoring until someone else tells you to either read it or shut up.

You may want to live in a fantasy that since he ended up president Obama must have somehow been insulated from the realities faced by my friend. (For the record, Obama, the friend in question, and I are all very close to the same age.) I'm not going to tell you that you can't revel in your fantasies, but I'm not gonna help.

Edit...and while you're about, it figure out how "black childhood friend" totally conflicts with what I've said and makes it look like maybe I was wrong.

 

[innonimatu]

Is this "white privilege"?

Or is it just "wealthy people privilege", which seems endemic in the US? With this concentrated wealth being passed down generations, as usual in any highly unequal country.

Wealth matters, because the rules in force, those that make the lives of the poor cheap (who's going to sue?), are about perpetuating that 80-90% share of wealth in the hands of a few. So long as you chase "racism" as the problem, the reason for racism is allowed to go on unchallenged.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I think you'd be surprised at the intersection of people that think black people are disadvantaged and are not thrilled with the term white privilege.

I'm assuming that this was directed at me... and no, I don't think I'd be surprised at all, in the sense that I believe that most people who are offended by the term AND simultaneously agree that black people are comparatively disadvantaged to white people would also claim/believe that "if only they'd use some different term, I wouldn't be offended"... because that's how cognitive dissonance works.

Two things... first... if you have the time, search the term "white privilege" under my username and see how many times I've used it, outside of this particular conversation... and if you are so inclined... take a moment to consider why that is. If you don't want to be bothered just ask me, because its critically important to why I'm discussing this with you specifically. Or PM me if that's more comfortable.

Second, I wonder if you agree with this... there are all kinds of advantages that we all can have, for example, being tall can be an advantage in many circumstances, as can being good looking, or male, or college educated, or, as @AmazonQueen stated, being an Ivy League graduate... I would hold this to be true, but the bottom line is that all of us sit down at the cosmic table of existence... and the great cosmic dealer of the cards... however you define that to be... deals us our cards...and you get what you get and you don't get upset... you have no choice but to play the hand you are dealt. So no matter what hand you were dealt... you have to play the best game you can, and be proud... because what is the alternative? I have the good fortune to have all those advantages I mentioned, which cut against being black, which is generally, in my experience, a disadvantage. But again, you play the hand you are dealt.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'll grant the Ivy League graduate claim, but that "good looking" I'm not just buying into sight unseen. When all the dust settles and travel is restored to relatively normal access you need to orchestrate some sort of California "business" trip.

Or a vacation in Belize.

 

[Lexicus]

Is this "white privilege"?

Or is it just "wealthy people privilege", which seems endemic in the US? With this concentrated wealth being passed down generations, as usual in any highly unequal country.

Wealth matters, because the rules in force, those that make the lives of the poor cheap (who's going to sue?), are about perpetuating that 80-90% share of wealth in the hands of a few. So long as you chase "racism" as the problem, the reason for racism is allowed to go on unchallenged.

Consider that you're entering a thread where the topic is largely racism, to say this last bit. It's not that I disagree with you, it's that I don't think many other people in this thread would claim that class inequality is not a problem or even that understanding class inequality is not important for understanding racism.

 

[Berzerker]

Since you insist on repeating the same absurd misrepresentations as if you are too stupid to understand any reply, and I actually know that you aren't stupid at all, I have to either keep beating fresh answers out, or just quote the answer you are already ignoring until someone else tells you to either read it or shut up.

Edit...and while you're about, it figure out how "black childhood friend" totally conflicts with what I've said and makes it look like maybe I was wrong.

You felt privileged to Obama because the "circumstances of my childhood were clearly superior to his." Thats debatable... When I started mentioning Obama's advantages you compared him to your friend because Obama was not insulated from his situation. When did I say he was insulated? They're both black and had to deal with racism but Obama got a great education so I dont know why you'd compare him to your childhood friend who couldn't attend public school.

 

[Takhisis]

Reminds me of Nelson putting his telescope to his blind eye:

Attorney General William Barr said he sees no systemic racism in law enforcement, and also said he did not support reducing immunity for officers.​

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You felt privileged to Obama because the "circumstances of my childhood were clearly superior to his." Thats debatable... When I started mentioning Obama's advantages you compared him to your friend because Obama was not insulated from his situation. When did I say he was insulated? They're both black and had to deal with racism but Obama got a great education so I dont know why you'd compare him to your childhood friend who couldn't attend public school.

Because Barack Obama's mother and grandmother had to work bloody hard to get him that education. Just like my friend's parents had to work bloody hard to get him an education while my parents could just sit back and let the state take care of it.

"Well he got a great education"...no kidding. You think he got into Columbia because because the school was angle shooting for donations from his father?

Screw it man, I know you are being intentionally obtuse, or contrarian, or whatever you tell yourself because it is less uncomfortable than the simple word. I get it, your amusement at the little invasion got cut short when the alt-righties got landed on with the heavy boot instead of coddled with "rationally." Tough luck.

 

[Berzerker]

So your education wasn't superior to Obama's? Advantage Barack... What I found amusing was your fantasy of clearly superior circumstances.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So your education wasn't superior to Obama's? Advantage Barack... What I found amusing was your fantasy of clearly superior circumstances.

What I find amusing is how persistently you feed the fantasy that you are somehow "winning" by being a constant asshat and making yourself widely despised.

As I said earlier...despite being the "elite private school" of Hawaii, Punahao in the sixties probably wasn't academically competitive with public education in California. But of course you didn't pay attention the first time and undoubtedly won't now.

Pro Tip: being liked is a lot more challenging than being hated.

Moderator Action: The word "asshat" is not a word I would think to use in an RD thread, especially when it is directed at another poster. Cool the flames. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[caketastydelish]

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFrea...tt_romney_is_marching_with_a_group_of_nearly/

https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gymrps/mitt_romney_joins_blm_protest_in_washington_dc/

Even the republicans (but not Trump) are admitting we have a racist problem in this country now.

 

[Yeekim]

There are no federal standards for police officers. Federal lawmakers could establish such guidelines, allowing states to treat them as the bare minimum or even expand on them.
States could also individually up their licensing requirements for police. For example, barbers in Florida as of 2016 were required under state law to have more training than police: Barbers need to log 1,200 hours, while cops need 770. It’s just one state, but it exemplifies how poor the standards can be for police licensing across the US.

Reality crazier than fiction...

 

[Yeekim]

If we are looking for meaningful, impactful reform proposals, "proper training" seems blindingly obvious.
You take a random guy, give him a gun and riot gear but the barest of training and expect him to perform a highly complex, dangerous and stressful job... WTH do you expect?

Cops in here have to study for a minimum of 18 months, before they are entrusted with the most basic patrol function... and the level of violent crime they have to deal with is nowhere near that of US.

 

[cardgame]

privilege is a many-edged sword and I don't like how 'white privilege' so often assumes class privilege as well - but that's just the nature of the game, @rah, when we're dealing with large numbers. Generalizations get made. The average white family has something approaching $250,000 in generational wealth. The average black family - $9,000. That's not a small gap. The chances are good that your parents got you a car and/or taught you how to drive. How often do you think black kids get a car from their parents at age 16? Unless you grew up 'white trash', you're probably significantly privileged over a black person. And no, it's not your fault, and no, you needn't feel bad about it. But you should be aware of it. That's what the "check" in "check your privilege" means. Take a step back and assess the difference in background between you and the speaker, or the topic they're speaking of.

If we are looking for meaningful, impactful reform proposals, "proper training" seems blindingly obvious.
You take a random guy, give him a gun and riot gear but the barest of training and expect him to perform a highly complex, dangerous and stressful job... WTH do you expect?

Cops in here have to study for a minimum of 18 months, before they are entrusted with the most basic patrol function... and the level of violent crime they have to deal with is nowhere near that of US.

So much cop content over the past two weeks I forget where this story applies to, but there was a PD or whole series of PDs that put a stop to the violent, escalatory "warrior training" and then found out the cops went and paid their own private money and time to attend the "killology" classes regardless

 

[Hrothbern]

I think that a connotation of the word "disadvantage" is, that it is more something you can overcome with advantages, whether from the cards you got dealt or created by effort from yourself.

I think that a connotation of the word "privileged" is, that it is something against which you are powerless.

It is not only that being privileged gives you in all kinds of situations the benefit of the doubt (whether you notice it or not)... it acts also as opening doors that are simply not opened for non-privileged persons except for the rare exception.

It is like the glass ceiling in the career of women.

And yes, with lots of pressure we have now many women who broke through the glass ceiling.
But yeah, women are a "minority group" of 50% of the population.
And in how many movies is the female role not linked to love ? In how few movies is the female role, like most male roles, basically linked to the other aspects of life ?

Obama broke the glass ceiling by becoming a POTUS.
And what a fuel and reaction did that not generate... and helped Trump winning the elections... with a vocal persistent "erase Obama legacy scenario"... basically from the sentiment that "those people" should know where they belong.

But
Do mind that when the US would get far enough in removing blatant racism... it will at the same time ramp up the "repressive tolerance" construction (where woman equality is now)... which works so well together with casual racism (and casual sexism).
Repressive tolerance an improvement for sure... like for example police officer abuse will be far better controlled... but a tough resilient next phase to go before you really fulfill the spirit of equal rights.

Key for the full change will be how individual people live up to the desire that society should be fair for all.

 

[caketastydelish]

Honestly, I think Rah is not completely wrong. I am brown, neither white nor black. There are disadvantages black people face that I think I don't. There are advantages white people get that I think I don't.

 

[AmazonQueen]

One can earn their way to 'comfortably off' while another may be born that way (and in so many different ways with skin color just one), the latter is privileged and the former will let you know the difference even if they were born with talent.

Inherited, stolen or earned by hard work the description of them as comfortably off would still be accurate.
On the other hand being white is always an unearned advantage.

 

[tamyrlin]

Semantically disadvantage might be more apt than the word privilege . Because you want everyone to be getting the same level of treatment as the whites. So it's not priviliged more like the normal treatment everyone in society should get .

But again this makes sense for things like treatment from police , locations of educational , medicinal facilities which are not zero-sum game . When there is a competition for job , education posts and some intangible things like getting a house for rent , the fact that someone is disadvantaged means you are advantaged. So you are privileged .

There is again the fact that a community as a whole could be better off than another community due to centuries of unequal access to resources . So for example financially or education wise you are 60 percentile in your community . Someone in a disadvantaged community who is better off than you, could be at 90 percentile in their community . A 90 percentile in your community is way way better than 90 percentile in their community. So just the fact that there are people in disadvantaged communities in better position financially, educationally does not mean that there is no disadvantage. If they were in your community, with their other abilities would have reached higher .

There is the other use of previlege when people act in a tone deaf manner to disavantages faced by another community . There were previleged to be so far away for the discriminations faced by another community, that they are blind and deaf and unaware about it. So previleged.

Previlege is not just race but gender,religion , caste , urban/rural, sexual orientation, economic status.

 

[abradley]

Josh Velson, I read arcane history books on eclectic subjects
Updated Jul 8 2015 · Author has 2.8k answers and 6.6m answer views
Originally Answered: Were there ever riots similar to the modern world in ancient Rome?
Definitely. Riots were common in ancient Rome. The popular image of a quiescent population is wrong; mobs and gangs had de facto control of much of the city of Rome for a good part of its existence, and the same was true of many other cities in the Roman world. Riots and mob violence were a common feature of the late Roman Republic, especially in the tumultous times following the Marian reforms and the rise of the principate. It is no accident that the cohortes urbanae (urban cohorts) of Rome and other city cohorts based in large cities were paramilitary forces specialized in riot control.

I was recently rereading Ammianus Marcellinus' chronicle of the later Roman Empire (in translation), and over the course of only a few pages talking about the figures surrounding the future emperor Julian's elevation to caesar by Constantius II (Book XV, section 7), there is a mention of a Leontius, governor of Rome, who puts down at least two major riots during his tenure as mayor, both involving the arrest of a popular chariot racer named Philoromus. Ammianus also disparagingly refers to the populace as being "excited to its customary frenzy," suggesting to my mind at least that such riots were a common state of affairs.

Later in the empire major riots occurred due to religious strife (notably in Alexandria). In the later empire, especially in the East, much rioting was also based on gangs titularly affiliated with chariot-racing teams. Sports riots of the time can be likened to modern-day association football rioting. City uprisings in Constantinople to replace hated emperors were also quite frequent.

Two of the most significant riots in Roman history are the ones after the funeral of Julius Caesar in 44 BC and the Nika riots in 532 AD.
https://www.quora.com/Were-there-ever-riots-similar-to-the-modern-world-in-Ancient-Rome

and

The Nika riots (Greek: Στάσις τοῦ Νίκα Stásis toû Níka), Nika revolt or Nika sedition took place against Emperor Justinian I in Constantinople over the course of a week in 532 CE. They were the most violent riots in the city's history, with nearly half of Constantinople being burned or destroyed and tens of thousands of people killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots

Our riots are bad, but they're nothing new historically.

What do you expect with Humans! If we were ants there wouldn't be the problem.