[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Joij21]

Yeah they also tore down a Ulysses S Grant statue.

Which proves they're stupid.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Fun fact: the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery was ended by police shooting the last guy the in legs. He wasn't taken alive though. They just refused to allow medical treatment so he slowly bled to death lying the street on national television.

I remember the great liberal Bill Maher talking about it years later on his show and his attitude was "Who cares! he deserved it!"

Not sure it's relevant to the particular case you reference, but the femoral artery is big and a gunshot wound to it could kill a person pretty fast (bleeding out within minutes, easily less than 10). Your odds of surviving a shot to the leg are better than the torso, but if hit the wrong way it is still very lethal very quickly.

I know. I put the rant in spoilers because it wasn't directed at any specific poster here. To be fair there's not a lot of confederate statues in the Pacific Northwest and at the very least statue tipping gives the more active protesters better things to do.

Those aren't protestors.

 

[Crezth]

Which proves they're stupid.

Yeah... to be fair, American history education is complete garbage and mostly propaganda. So a little iconoclasm is to be expected with how dramatically the US system is failing past its lies.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I have to argue that the Cross of St Andrew in the Floridian and Alabamian flags is ostensibly a nod to their Spanish heritage, since the very similar Burgundian cross was the symbol most associated with Spanish armies and such and so before the adoption of the current flag. That said, it wouldnt surprise me if they just used that excuse to retain some measure of a Confederate symbol around.

I also have to question the Missouri flag connection to the CSA, since the only commonality is that there are three bars and a circle of stars. Similarly Tennessee's is so different, and so very unique. It is indubitably one of the best state flags and it never occurres to me that there was a CSA connection at all. I dunnow though. I'd like you to tell me more about it. I am always happy to learn more about flags.

What I do know is that the Texas flag predates the CSA and indeed Texas itself, besides being the second or third best known US flag after the Union flag and the Confederate cross, so I dont see that one changing.

You make valid points about all the flags you mentioned. Mississippi is the blatant offender, with Georgia right behind them. I can hand wave the rest.

 

[Joij21]

Yeah... to be fair, American history education is complete garbage and mostly propaganda. So a little iconoclasm is to be expected with how dramatically the US system is failing past its lies.

Are you insinuating that Ulysses S. Grant is pro-American propaganda? Despite the fact that he actually DID march on the South to free slaves. While you might think he never did because "propaganda", the facts state otherwise. Facts are not propaganda. Your entitled to your own opinions, but opinions can't contest facts.

 

[Commodore]

Yesterday a man was shot down by Dutch police. That guy was threatening with a big knife. Not many details yet.

But the article mentioned that he was shot in the legs.

Shooting to wound isn't really any better than shooting to kill. It might even be worse since you run the risk of causing permanent disability and thus lifelong suffering.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You make valid points about all the flags you mentioned. Mississippi is the blatant offender, with Georgia right behind them. I can hand wave the rest.

Most people* don't even realize that the Confederate battle flag (the one on all the bumper stickers) wasn't actually the CSA's national flag until the very, very end of the war. The real 'Stars and Bars' looks a lot more like the US flag and was mostly forgotten in favor of the battle flag in our historical conscious. As such, I agree that use of flags similar to the Stars and Bars by ex-confederate states can be hand-waived away even if I wish it were all consigned to the ash heap of history. Most people truly don't know what the CSA flag actually was even as everyone knows exactly what the battle flag was and what it stands/stood for.

I can't wait for the state of Georgia to dynamite Stone Mountain like the swastika atop the Reichstag. It's coming but it'll take time. We first have to break the GOP's ability to rig elections in Georgia like it's a third world country, but it's coming.

*This even included me until I read some Harry Turtledove novels about a decade ago where he referenced submarines using the Stars and Bars as camo since it looked so much like the Stars and Stripes. That made me think, dafug?, because the battle flag doesn't look anything like the US flag which lead me to look up the CSA flag and found out that battle flag =/= Confederate flag.

 

[Commodore]

I'm surprised no one is calling to boycott Blizzard over StarCraft. In the original, the Terran Confederacy used the CSA battle flag as their flag/emblem. You can see it in some of the cutscenes.

 

[Hrothbern]

Shooting to wound isn't really any better than shooting to kill. It might even be worse since you run the risk of causing permanent disability and thus lifelong suffering.

Point taken on that lifelong handicap.

Though I would still prefer it when it would happen to me

Do we not have a modern version of a retiarius, those gladiators with tridents and nets... a modern spiderman net.

 

[Crezth]

Are you insinuating that Ulysses S. Grant is pro-American propaganda? Despite the fact that he actually DID march on the South to free slaves. While you might think he never did because "propaganda", the facts state otherwise. Facts are not propaganda. Your entitled to your own opinions, but opinions can't contest facts.

Oh, that's entirely true. I'm not disputing that. Grant broke the slavers' backs. He owned one slave - a gift - whom he freed. He was more committed to reconstruction than his peers (not a great distinction but still).

Facts, however, are not the whole story. Every continuation of facts is held together by narratives, history, which frequently can serve as propaganda. So it doesn't surprise me if people react to that with misinformation. That's how it goes. The soil of critical inquiry and historical knowledge is very, very thin here.

 

[Joij21]

I'm surprised no one is calling to boycott Blizzard over StarCraft. In the original, the Terran Confederacy used the CSA battle flag as their flag/emblem. You can see it in some of the cutscenes.

Because many videogames have CSA references in them. Sid Mier's Gettysburg, Sid Mier's Civilization2 has dixie as part of the soundtrack, North vs. South, Life is Strange has Frank wearing a CSA battle flag on his baseball hat, Farcry5 has Dixie references everywhere, and many more. To put it simply, you would have to ban a large part of videogames including some well known classics.

 

[aelf]

I'm surprised no one is calling to boycott Blizzard over StarCraft. In the original, the Terran Confederacy used the CSA battle flag as their flag/emblem. You can see it in some of the cutscenes.

Why? The Terran Confederacy was evil as heck. Seems intentional.

 

[red_elk]

I'm surprised no one is calling to boycott Blizzard over StarCraft. In the original, the Terran Confederacy used the CSA battle flag as their flag/emblem. You can see it in some of the cutscenes.

They were villains in the game IIRC

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Were they evil? Man it's been a minute but I don't remember them as inherently evil.

Also thank you for the existential crisis of realizing that game is now old enough to drink and I wasn't that young when it came out.

 

[Joij21]

Facts, however, are not the whole story. Every continuation of facts is held together by narratives, history, which frequently can serve as propaganda. So it doesn't surprise me if people react to that with misinformation. That's how it goes. The soil of critical inquiry and historical knowledge is very, very thin here.

That doesn't justify toppling statues of him. If people think the narratives about him are propaganda, even though they are true, then that only proves they are anti-American. Besides why would one think of Grant as being propaganda when he actually did positive things? But lets just assume he is propaganda, then isn't that a positive form of propaganda? That we should crush those who rebel to protect slavery.

 

[Socrates99]

I'm surprised no one is calling to boycott Blizzard over StarCraft. In the original, the Terran Confederacy used the CSA battle flag as their flag/emblem. You can see it in some of the cutscenes.

Aren't people already boycotting them over some stuff to do with China? At any rate it wasn't exactly a positive depiction, like others have. They were racist/ "Specieists". Kind of appropriate really.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Were they evil? Man it's been a minute but I don't remember them as inherently evil.

Also thank you for the existential crisis of realizing that game is now old enough to drink and I wasn't that young when it came out.

Sons of Korhal (which you start under or join fast, I forget exactly) are ultimately really bad too, but the reason they're called that is because Terran confederation effectively glassed an entire planet with 1k nukes to put down a rebellion, and they weren't exactly rosy prior to that either. You spend a good chunk of the first campaign fighting against them, so using a confederate flag for an enemy faction with a history of atrocity wasn't too controversial in context. Basically none of the Terran factions other than "Raynor" even kind of looked good in the game.

 

[Crezth]

That doesn't justify toppling statues of him. If people think the narratives about him are propaganda, even though they are true, then that only proves they are anti-American. Besides why would one think of Grant as being propaganda when he actually did positive things? But lets just assume he is propaganda, then isn't that a positive form of propaganda? That we should crush those who rebel to protect slavery.

I can't answer specifics. I'm not all the protesters. I'm merely analyzing their motivations. Your point that this proves they're anti-America... hits the nail on the head. That is indeed what all this is boiling up to. The perception is of America as evil and of American history as a lie. Generally speaking this is the inevitable interaction of governments shooting their own citizens for expressing dissent; opposition is rarely always objective and clear-headed, and tends to become more extreme as the situation continues to deteriorate.

 

[Joij21]

opposition is rarely always objective and clear-headed, and tends to become more extreme as the situation continues to deteriorate.

Well if they don't start acting clear-headed then everyone and everyone's mother will reject them and their movement. Then their movement will die.

 

[Commodore]

Why? The Terran Confederacy was evil as heck. Seems intentional.

That doesn't seem to matter to some people though. I remember that little kerfluffle a few years ago where people were demanding that the CSA battle flag be taken out of some mobile game that was based on the American Civil War. The one place where it would be entirely appropriate to have such a flag, and people still wanted it removed.