Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Please be informed that I will available this weekend, on Wednesday / Thursday, and next weekend again.
GGF4: French
- Thread starter Gogf
- Start date
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Grahamiam, I'd suggest you prepare to take the save, if Gogf doesn't post his turns today....
[edit] Grahamiam, I think it's up to you to proceed.
[edit] Grahamiam, I think it's up to you to proceed.
Gogf
Indescribable
Skip me 
. I had to something this weekend, and just found out my thesis is due tommorow 
! I don't have time to play, I'm sorry. But, school lets out soon, so I think this is our last thesis 
.
. I had to something this weekend, and just found out my thesis is due tommorow ! I don't have time to play, I'm sorry. But, school lets out soon, so I think this is our last thesis .
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
ok, i got it. will play and post by Tuesday night (probably tonight, but we'll see). this should be alright for Cmdr Bello since he won't be able to pick it up till Wed's, right?
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
right (another right for the 10 chars)
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
first, the 975BC save
Preflight check: MM Paris off forrest onto wine hill (2T settler, 2T growth vs 2T, 3T); 2 barb horsemen are outside Lyons, how nice ; MM sci slider from 100% to 90% so we get +2gpt vs -1gpt, WC still in 5T.
Trades: Inca: Writing for Math + 69g; Inca now up MM, the wheel, WC, and Myst. Iroquois: WC & 31g for Writing
Set research @ 100% for Philosophy.
IBT: Lyons warrior -> barracks
T1: 1200BC New warrior goes to Paris for MP duty; Warrior6 explores
IBT: Paris settler -> warrior; Lyons warrior ->warrior
T2: 1175BC settler & war5 move out to claim iron. MM paris off forrest and onto wines.
IBT: Rheims worker -> temple; a barb warrior pops out of the fog to threaten the Tours workers.
T3: 1150BC settler/warrior pair continue on their way. Move warriors out of Orleans and Tours to cover workers
T4: 1125BC settler/warrior pair reaches destination
IBT: Barb warrior dies attacking across river and promotes out warrior to vet. The 2 barb horses move out from near Lyons. Paris warrior -> settler
T5: 1100BC Found Marseilles -> worker; Amazingly, Inca still do not have Phil due in 5T for us.
T6: 1075BC Chop completed outside Rheims to help temple along. MM Paris off mined grass and onto forrest.
IBT: Tours warrior -> warrior
T7: 1050BC workers working.
IBT: Maya complete Oracle
T8: 1025BC workers work on stuff
IBT: Unbelievable, we get Philosphy 1st [dance]; Take currency as our free tech! Lyons barracks -> archer
Research CoL @ 100%
An Inca settler/spear pair is moving past Rheims to claim all those BGs and the fish
T9: 1000BC worker begins irrigating plain NW of Marseilles. Theres a pair of barb horses really annoying me on the mountain between Paris/Orleans/Marseilles.
Trade: Inca: Myst, Wheel, 87g for Philo. We have horses to the east and west.
IBT: Paris: settler -> warrior (to get pop up to 4 again and we can send 1 with the settler)
T10: 975BC Ill leave the settler in Paris for CB to decide in regards to placement. Warrior9 is going to Marseilles. I was going to rotate the warrior out of Marseilles to cover the worker in case a barb horse pops out of the fog.
SoZ due in 16T
Preflight check: MM Paris off forrest onto wine hill (2T settler, 2T growth vs 2T, 3T); 2 barb horsemen are outside Lyons, how nice
; MM sci slider from 100% to 90% so we get +2gpt vs -1gpt, WC still in 5T.Trades: Inca: Writing for Math + 69g; Inca now up MM, the wheel, WC, and Myst. Iroquois: WC & 31g for Writing
Set research @ 100% for Philosophy.
IBT: Lyons warrior -> barracks
T1: 1200BC New warrior goes to Paris for MP duty; Warrior6 explores
IBT: Paris settler -> warrior; Lyons warrior ->warrior
T2: 1175BC settler & war5 move out to claim iron. MM paris off forrest and onto wines.
IBT: Rheims worker -> temple; a barb warrior pops out of the fog to threaten the Tours workers.
T3: 1150BC settler/warrior pair continue on their way. Move warriors out of Orleans and Tours to cover workers
T4: 1125BC settler/warrior pair reaches destination
IBT: Barb warrior dies attacking across river and promotes out warrior to vet. The 2 barb horses move out from near Lyons. Paris warrior -> settler
T5: 1100BC Found Marseilles -> worker; Amazingly, Inca still do not have Phil due in 5T for us.
T6: 1075BC Chop completed outside Rheims to help temple along. MM Paris off mined grass and onto forrest.
IBT: Tours warrior -> warrior
T7: 1050BC workers working.
IBT: Maya complete Oracle
T8: 1025BC workers work on stuff
IBT: Unbelievable, we get Philosphy 1st [dance]; Take currency as our free tech! Lyons barracks -> archer
Research CoL @ 100%
An Inca settler/spear pair is moving past Rheims to claim all those BGs and the fish
T9: 1000BC worker begins irrigating plain NW of Marseilles. Theres a pair of barb horses really annoying me on the mountain between Paris/Orleans/Marseilles.
Trade: Inca: Myst, Wheel, 87g for Philo. We have horses to the east and west.
IBT: Paris: settler -> warrior (to get pop up to 4 again and we can send 1 with the settler)
T10: 975BC Ill leave the settler in Paris for CB to decide in regards to placement. Warrior9 is going to Marseilles. I was going to rotate the warrior out of Marseilles to cover the worker in case a barb horse pops out of the fog.
SoZ due in 16T
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Got the save....
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
[edit]oops... wrong button... this posting is subject to editing right now...
pre-flight checks
geostrategic and tactical position
Our empire is located south of the northern tropic. We know about two other nations, the Inca and the Iroquois. Our expansion has lead mostly to the north, with some exploration done to the west and east. About the southern part of our continent, we almost know nothing.
The Incans seem to extend into our direction, about the Iroquois we lack knowledge.
3 Barbs located next to Orleans threaten our luxury lines from and towards Orleans. Cutting them would cripple max town size to 4.
We are currently running a deficit of -2 for Code of Laws in 11.
Cities
We have 6 cities from size 1 to size 4.
Unit count:
1 settler, 5 workers, 12 warriors. Our military is weak in numbers and quality.
current projects
We are in the race for SoZ (16t)
1 settler is waiting at Paris for orders
Things to change
Marseilles: worker(5) to warrior(5). Reason: there is a worker irrigating plains (2t) next to Marseilles. Since Marseilles will need 15 turns under the current conditions to grow to size 2, this is not much senseful. Changing the worker's tasks will waste some of his turns, on the other hand. The next workers will be produced at Orleans, after finishing the SoZ (13t) there, as Orleans will have it's maximum useful population (5) then.
Paris: warrior(2) to settler(8). Paris (size 4 in 1) is our settler factory. It will grow to size 5 in 6 turns, and settler will be available then as well. Escorts should be produced by the other cities, to allow for maximum settler production.
Settler combo @Paris => "sugar creek"-location. Located at river knee, with lots of forests for chopping.
Warrior12 @Lyons => Paris.
Plans:
The second next town should claim the horses in the east. After that, a settlement chain should try to reach the gems in the north, giving us access to the additional wines and the iron on the way, and at least one harbor.
--- will continue after barbecue
----
pre-flight checks
geostrategic and tactical position
Our empire is located south of the northern tropic. We know about two other nations, the Inca and the Iroquois. Our expansion has lead mostly to the north, with some exploration done to the west and east. About the southern part of our continent, we almost know nothing.
The Incans seem to extend into our direction, about the Iroquois we lack knowledge.
3 Barbs located next to Orleans threaten our luxury lines from and towards Orleans. Cutting them would cripple max town size to 4.
We are currently running a deficit of -2 for Code of Laws in 11.
Cities
We have 6 cities from size 1 to size 4.
Unit count:
1 settler, 5 workers, 12 warriors. Our military is weak in numbers and quality.
current projects
We are in the race for SoZ (16t)
1 settler is waiting at Paris for orders
Things to change
Marseilles: worker(5) to warrior(5). Reason: there is a worker irrigating plains (2t) next to Marseilles. Since Marseilles will need 15 turns under the current conditions to grow to size 2, this is not much senseful. Changing the worker's tasks will waste some of his turns, on the other hand. The next workers will be produced at Orleans, after finishing the SoZ (13t) there, as Orleans will have it's maximum useful population (5) then.
Paris: warrior(2) to settler(8). Paris (size 4 in 1) is our settler factory. It will grow to size 5 in 6 turns, and settler will be available then as well. Escorts should be produced by the other cities, to allow for maximum settler production.
Settler combo @Paris => "sugar creek"-location. Located at river knee, with lots of forests for chopping.
Warrior12 @Lyons => Paris.
Plans:
The second next town should claim the horses in the east. After that, a settlement chain should try to reach the gems in the north, giving us access to the additional wines and the iron on the way, and at least one harbor.
--- will continue after barbecue
----
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
nice changes good luck!
good luck!
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
grahamiam said:nice changes
Good luck for the barbecue?
....
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
from the news...
German Barbeque Incident
By Phil Hudson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week, a German man was rushed to hospital after a serious accident at a barbeque. The unfortunate incident occurred when he was cooking the final sausage for a guest.
Due to the high workload of the staff at the hospital, he was not seen by a doctor until yesterday. The doctor has now made an analysis on his condition, stating that he's taken a "burn for the wurst".
German Barbeque Incident
By Phil Hudson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week, a German man was rushed to hospital after a serious accident at a barbeque. The unfortunate incident occurred when he was cooking the final sausage for a guest.
Due to the high workload of the staff at the hospital, he was not seen by a doctor until yesterday. The doctor has now made an analysis on his condition, stating that he's taken a "burn for the wurst".
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
<pressing return>
IBT
Barb attacks Orleans, gets killed
Incans withdraw from our territory
Tours: Warrior13 > temple for border expansion
Turn 1 (950bc)
Irrigation at Tours completed, roads.
Workers @Rheims: mining
Warrior6: explores
vetWarrior1 <> Warrior10 @Orleans
Warrior13 => Rheims
MM'd Paris for pop/settler in 4
Income adjusted to +2/CoL in 11 (no need to run deficits on the way to Republic. This is a conquests game, so our government will be Monarchy)
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
164 (+2); (1.9.0)
<pressing return>
IBT
Barb Horses approach worker at Marseilles
Barb Horses leave at Orleans, hunting for settler combo
Turn2 (925bc)
Worker3 => Marseilles
Warrior1 => Marseilles
Warrior9: fortifies @Orleans
Workers @Tour => forests for chopping
Warrior13 => Rheims, fortifies
Settler combo => S to mountains
Warrior12: fortifies @Paris
Warrior6: explores
<pressing return>
IBT
Barb Horses attack Marseilles, killing Warrior3, loosing 1 Horse
Incans still moving towards main Incan territory.
Lyons: Archer1 > Archer
Barb Horses stay at mountains east of Paris
Turn 3 (900bc)
Archer1 joins settler combo in forests N of Lyons
Warrior5: counter attack on redlined BarbHorse, killing it
Worker3: leaving Marseilles S
Worker1/5: finish mining at Rheims (temple in 13), start irrigation next to river
Warrior6: W
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 12 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
168 (+2); (1.9.0)
<pressing return>
IBT
Archer1 kills Barbhorses, promoted to yellow elite
Incans found Arequipa at "our" harbor town location
Turn4 (875bc)
Archer1 => Paris
Settler combo => Sugar Creek
Worker3: roading S of Marseilles (road connection to Paris)
Warrior5 => Marseilles
Worker2/4: chopping for temple at Tours
Warrior6: W
Build embassy in Incan capitol of Cuzco: building Sword. Incans have silk(3) and iron(1). Incans starting on Swords means a risk to us. We have to make some money and to go for a better government quickly.
Build embassy in Iroquois capitol of Salamanca: building settler. Iroquois have no ressources
Polite Incans(343g, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism) would sell Polytheism & 130gold (alternatively Map Making & 115g)for Currency. Agreed on Poly&gold.
Incans are going for Temple of Artemis.
Polite Iroquois(87gold) will give 87 gold for Mathematics. (They have no wonders under construction) Agreed.
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 12 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
289 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 7
<pressing return>
Incan warriors approach our borders at Rheims.
Paris: Settler > Settler
Marseilles: Warrior14 (fortifies)> Spear
Iroquois start on SoZ!!! But there is no indication that they could finalize it prior to Orleans. 
Turn5 (850bc)
Worker1/5 join Worker2/4 on forests for chopping.
Warrior6: explores
Settler combo from Paris => horse grounds in the east
Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
287 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 6
---- to be continued ----
IBT
Barb attacks Orleans, gets killed
Incans withdraw from our territory
Tours: Warrior13 > temple for border expansion
Turn 1 (950bc)
Irrigation at Tours completed, roads.
Workers @Rheims: mining
Warrior6: explores
vetWarrior1 <> Warrior10 @Orleans
Warrior13 => Rheims
MM'd Paris for pop/settler in 4
Income adjusted to +2/CoL in 11 (no need to run deficits on the way to Republic. This is a conquests game, so our government will be Monarchy)
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
164 (+2); (1.9.0)
<pressing return>
IBT
Barb Horses approach worker at Marseilles
Barb Horses leave at Orleans, hunting for settler combo
Turn2 (925bc)
Worker3 => Marseilles
Warrior1 => Marseilles
Warrior9: fortifies @Orleans
Workers @Tour => forests for chopping
Warrior13 => Rheims, fortifies
Settler combo => S to mountains
Warrior12: fortifies @Paris
Warrior6: explores
<pressing return>
IBT
Barb Horses attack Marseilles, killing Warrior3, loosing 1 Horse
Incans still moving towards main Incan territory.
Lyons: Archer1 > Archer
Barb Horses stay at mountains east of Paris
Turn 3 (900bc)
Archer1 joins settler combo in forests N of Lyons
Warrior5: counter attack on redlined BarbHorse, killing it
Worker3: leaving Marseilles S
Worker1/5: finish mining at Rheims (temple in 13), start irrigation next to river
Warrior6: W
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 12 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
168 (+2); (1.9.0)
<pressing return>
IBT
Archer1 kills Barbhorses, promoted to yellow elite
Incans found Arequipa at "our" harbor town location
Turn4 (875bc)
Archer1 => Paris
Settler combo => Sugar Creek
Worker3: roading S of Marseilles (road connection to Paris)
Warrior5 => Marseilles
Worker2/4: chopping for temple at Tours
Warrior6: W
Build embassy in Incan capitol of Cuzco: building Sword. Incans have silk(3) and iron(1). Incans starting on Swords means a risk to us. We have to make some money and to go for a better government quickly.
Build embassy in Iroquois capitol of Salamanca: building settler. Iroquois have no ressources
Polite Incans(343g, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism) would sell Polytheism & 130gold (alternatively Map Making & 115g)for Currency. Agreed on Poly&gold.
Incans are going for Temple of Artemis.
Polite Iroquois(87gold) will give 87 gold for Mathematics. (They have no wonders under construction) Agreed.
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 12 warriors (1 archer)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Warrior, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
289 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 7
<pressing return>
Incan warriors approach our borders at Rheims.
Paris: Settler > Settler
Marseilles: Warrior14 (fortifies)> Spear
Iroquois start on SoZ!!!
But there is no indication that they could finalize it prior to Orleans. Turn5 (850bc)
Worker1/5 join Worker2/4 on forests for chopping.
Warrior6: explores
Settler combo from Paris => horse grounds in the east
Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ
Income:
287 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 6
---- to be continued ----
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
<pressing return>
IBT
Forests chopped @Tours
Incan Warriors move towards Arequipa, avoiding to enter our territory
Turn 6 (825bc)
Archer1 => Marseilles
Warrior14 => Paris
Worker1/2: roading @Tours
Worker4/5 => Orleans
Warrior6: explores, spotting village
Settler combo => Lyons
Worker3: S for closing roads between Paris and Marseilles
Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(10)
Income:
285 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 5
Thoughts:
In a single player game, I would change Paris (size3/settler in 7) to temple > Mausoleum, now. The Mausoleum has the charme to be cheap and add 3 content citizens, thus making the town it is located in an early powerhouse.
Any comment would be welcome.
IBT
Forests chopped @Tours
Incan Warriors move towards Arequipa, avoiding to enter our territory
Turn 6 (825bc)
Archer1 => Marseilles
Warrior14 => Paris
Worker1/2: roading @Tours
Worker4/5 => Orleans
Warrior6: explores, spotting village
Settler combo => Lyons
Worker3: S for closing roads between Paris and Marseilles
Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(10)
Income:
285 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 5
Thoughts:
In a single player game, I would change Paris (size3/settler in 7) to temple > Mausoleum, now. The Mausoleum has the charme to be cheap and add 3 content citizens, thus making the town it is located in an early powerhouse.
Any comment would be welcome.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
The Save
<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois! This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though
Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.
Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs
Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(10)
Income:
285 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 5
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
<pressing return>
IBT
Warrior6 kills 1 Barb
BarbHorse invades our territory @Tours, 2nd BarbHorse shows up at river banks
Turn 8 (775bc)
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6 N for river protection and recovery
Worker1/2: stay at Tours due to Barb threat
Archer1 => Hills NW of Marseilles for Barb spotting - Barb camp seems to be in the last black spot
MM'd Paris for growth in 3, settler in 4. Still being unsure about proposed change to MoM there
<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois! This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though
Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.
Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers (0)
Production:
1 Warrior, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(6)
Income:
281 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 2
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
<pressing return>
IBT
Warrior6 spots Incan Sword successfully defending against 4 unrecognized attackers
Incan Chasqui Scout at Vitcos (next to Tours)
BarbWarrior approaches Lyons suburbs
BarbHorses @Tours fortifiy
Turn 9(750 bc)
Lyons: Warrior15 > Archer (MM'd for archer in 3)
Archer2 @Paris => Orleans
Archer1 @Marseilles => hills NW, spots BarbCamp
Warrior15 kills Barb
Worker3 closes road connection Marseilles - Paris (very crowded during holiday seasons ) and => Lyons to close connection Paris-Lyons - Chartres
vetWarrior from Rheims attacks BarbHorse @Tours, gets killed
Workers1/2 still nailed down at Tours due to Barb threat
Warrior6: N, but spots nobody
MM'd Orleans for SoZ in 4
<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois! This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though
Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.
Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers(0)
Production:
1 Archer, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(4)
Income:
279 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 1
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
<pressing return>
IBT
Chasqi Scout kills red BarbHorse in our territory, withdraws.
Code of Laws > Monarchy in 23 (Literature makes no sense with just 2 other nations known, GL has to be captured later; Republic would last 27, Map Making makes no sense without any harbor, Horse riding we might trade later, Construction doesn't benefit us yet, either) We have to get an better government ASAP (lots of money, but can't make good use of it)
Turn 10(730bc)
Archer1 retreats to Marseilles for recovery
Warrior 15 retreats to Lyons for recovery
Worker3 arrives at Game Forest near Lyons. Proposed road building from there: north towards Chartres (for next player)
Settler combo arrives at Horse City location! Don't move them any further, they have access to horses and wheat there!
Warrior6: N, spotting silks, Barb Camp and another new Incan town
Worker1: tries to escape from Tours, escorted by 1 Warrior
Worker2: waits for success of Worker1
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers(0)
Production:
1 Archer, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(3)
Income:
277 (-2); (0.10.0); Mon in 22
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
End of my turns
Thoughts:
Still, we should discuss about Paris to switch to temple > MoM. As Orleans will have to race for barracks > temple first and already is approaching max citizen limits (even with lux slider), it would make more sense to build a settler there than to wait for Orleans to become able to build MoM.
Lyons is approaching max citizens limits as well, so there could be built a settler as well.
MoM at Paris would allow for a powerhouse in the future, since Paris has everything, it needs for that: 3 forests for temple rushing, rivers for unlimited growth, hills for later production (under monarchy), grassland for speedy growth....
I would like that to be discussed before the next player allows the settler to be built over there.
Furthermore, after finishing SoZ at Orleans, the forests there should be used to rush barracks > temple (barracks needed for the ACs, temple is self-explanatory)
The map:
hmmm.. map doesn't show up???
<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois!
This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.
Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs
Unit count:
2 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 1 archer(1)
Production:
1 Archer, 1 Spear, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(10)
Income:
285 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 5
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
<pressing return>
IBT
Warrior6 kills 1 Barb
BarbHorse invades our territory @Tours, 2nd BarbHorse shows up at river banks
Turn 8 (775bc)
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6 N for river protection and recovery
Worker1/2: stay at Tours due to Barb threat
Archer1 => Hills NW of Marseilles for Barb spotting - Barb camp seems to be in the last black spot
MM'd Paris for growth in 3, settler in 4. Still being unsure about proposed change to MoM there
<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois!
This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.
Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers (0)
Production:
1 Warrior, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(6)
Income:
281 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 2
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
<pressing return>
IBT
Warrior6 spots Incan Sword successfully defending against 4 unrecognized attackers
Incan Chasqui Scout at Vitcos (next to Tours)
BarbWarrior approaches Lyons suburbs
BarbHorses @Tours fortifiy
Turn 9(750 bc)
Lyons: Warrior15 > Archer (MM'd for archer in 3)
Archer2 @Paris => Orleans
Archer1 @Marseilles => hills NW, spots BarbCamp
Warrior15 kills Barb
Worker3 closes road connection Marseilles - Paris (very crowded during holiday seasons
) and => Lyons to close connection Paris-Lyons - ChartresvetWarrior from Rheims attacks BarbHorse @Tours, gets killed
Workers1/2 still nailed down at Tours due to Barb threat
Warrior6: N, but spots nobody
MM'd Orleans for SoZ in 4
<pressing return>
IBT
Incans declared war on Iroquois!
This should drastically reduce the pressure on us - at least for the moment. As we can expect the Incans to be successful, in the long run this will make them more powerful, though Arequipa bound Incans head N again
Lyons: Archer2 > Warrior (for mp-duty)
Barb Horse shows up at riverbanks near Tours.
Turn 7 (800bc)
Archer2 => Paris
Orleans reached maximum size(5), MM'd to SoZ in 7
Worker4/5 => Orleans hills for mining
Worker1/2 => Tours for protection
Chartres founded at Sugar Creek: Spear
Settler combo => horse grounds
Warrior6: spawns 3 Barbs
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers(0)
Production:
1 Archer, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(4)
Income:
279 (-2); (0.10.0); CoL in 1
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
<pressing return>
IBT
Chasqi Scout kills red BarbHorse in our territory, withdraws.
Code of Laws > Monarchy in 23 (Literature makes no sense with just 2 other nations known, GL has to be captured later; Republic would last 27, Map Making makes no sense without any harbor, Horse riding we might trade later, Construction doesn't benefit us yet, either) We have to get an better government ASAP (lots of money, but can't make good use of it)
Turn 10(730bc)
Archer1 retreats to Marseilles for recovery
Warrior 15 retreats to Lyons for recovery
Worker3 arrives at Game Forest near Lyons. Proposed road building from there: north towards Chartres (for next player)
Settler combo arrives at Horse City location! Don't move them any further, they have access to horses and wheat there!
Warrior6: N, spotting silks, Barb Camp and another new Incan town
Worker1: tries to escape from Tours, escorted by 1 Warrior
Worker2: waits for success of Worker1
Unit count:
1 settler (1), 5 workers (0), 13 warriors, 2 archers(0)
Production:
1 Archer, 2 Spears, 1 Settler, 2 temples, SoZ(3)
Income:
277 (-2); (0.10.0); Mon in 22
Wars ongoing:
Incans <> Iroqouis
End of my turns
Thoughts:
Still, we should discuss about Paris to switch to temple > MoM. As Orleans will have to race for barracks > temple first and already is approaching max citizen limits (even with lux slider), it would make more sense to build a settler there than to wait for Orleans to become able to build MoM.
Lyons is approaching max citizens limits as well, so there could be built a settler as well.
MoM at Paris would allow for a powerhouse in the future, since Paris has everything, it needs for that: 3 forests for temple rushing, rivers for unlimited growth, hills for later production (under monarchy), grassland for speedy growth....
I would like that to be discussed before the next player allows the settler to be built over there.
Furthermore, after finishing SoZ at Orleans, the forests there should be used to rush barracks > temple (barracks needed for the ACs, temple is self-explanatory)
The map:
hmmm.. map doesn't show up???
Attachments
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
nice set Cmdr Bello. 
how many turns will the MoM take? can Lyons/Orleans/Sugar town replace the lost settler production? MoM is great but we only have 7 towns (8 next turn) and i'd hate to halt that. imho, we'll need 12-15 before we're strong enough to go after the inca. however, if other cities can make up the settler production, then let's go for it. we need to expand west as well to secure the lands to our south. maybe a town near the lake to the W and couple more extending our borders to the wine cluster to the NW.
one question, why are we building spears? imho, build warriors, connect iron and upgrade to swords, then disconnect and build more warriors. one reason i like building barracks is so that we have vet warriors to upgrade. imho, a sword is much more valuable than a spear in the AA. in the MA, i tend to only build knights and cav so maybe you like to have pikes and muskets to hold ground?
how many turns will the MoM take? can Lyons/Orleans/Sugar town replace the lost settler production? MoM is great but we only have 7 towns (8 next turn) and i'd hate to halt that. imho, we'll need 12-15 before we're strong enough to go after the inca. however, if other cities can make up the settler production, then let's go for it. we need to expand west as well to secure the lands to our south. maybe a town near the lake to the W and couple more extending our borders to the wine cluster to the NW.
one question, why are we building spears? imho, build warriors, connect iron and upgrade to swords, then disconnect and build more warriors. one reason i like building barracks is so that we have vet warriors to upgrade. imho, a sword is much more valuable than a spear in the AA. in the MA, i tend to only build knights and cav so maybe you like to have pikes and muskets to hold ground?
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Thx, Grahamyouare
MoM will cost 200 shields. Since Paris would need a temple (almost available if settler would be changed and forests would be chopped), it would have to start on it all over. Since there is no waste at Paris and we should be able to reach size 6 (7 with lux slider), I assume a production time of appr. 30 turns. This would go along with Monarchy, so we could finish MoM, and then switch government.
Doing so, we would loose appr. 5 settlers from Paris. OTOH, some of our current towns would run into their citizen limit, they could make up for some of the lost settlers. I'd guess that we would gain 3 or 4 settlers from those towns.
Nevertheless, the boost offered by MoM is enormous. That is, why I would plea for going for it. Especially, taking into consideration that the Incan campaign will require lots of units.
About the spears: they are meant as defensive garrison for our border cities later on. Depending on how the Incan-Iroqouis war turns, we might expect an Incan assault in the future. Nothing could be worse than loosing our cities on the first attack.
Optionally, the spears might be changed to archers, if the need would arise.
About your estimation how many cities we'd need for the Incans, I agree with you, as well as about the course of the next towns to be founded.
One remark about the upgrade procedure: As long as you don't have a very strong economy, it has been my experience that upgrading does work only for very few units and should be done only in emergency situations. Most times, I've found it more useful to rush improvements with money and to make use of the enhanced production capability of bigger towns. But, of course, this is very much dependant on the current tactical situation.
In the MA, strong defenders are needed, so the answer to your question is yes, I like pikes and muskets. Of course, a good balance has to be found between attackers and defenders, and I tend to have more attackers than defenders (let's say a ratio of 6:4 or 7:3 - again depending on the situation). One should never forget, that it takes quite some time to secure the recently conquered territory/cities. That can't be done just with attackers, even if they have the same defensive values as a defending unit. But the attackers have to stay mobile which is contradictory to using them for defense purposes....
MoM will cost 200 shields. Since Paris would need a temple (almost available if settler would be changed and forests would be chopped), it would have to start on it all over. Since there is no waste at Paris and we should be able to reach size 6 (7 with lux slider), I assume a production time of appr. 30 turns. This would go along with Monarchy, so we could finish MoM, and then switch government.
Doing so, we would loose appr. 5 settlers from Paris. OTOH, some of our current towns would run into their citizen limit, they could make up for some of the lost settlers. I'd guess that we would gain 3 or 4 settlers from those towns.
Nevertheless, the boost offered by MoM is enormous. That is, why I would plea for going for it. Especially, taking into consideration that the Incan campaign will require lots of units.
About the spears: they are meant as defensive garrison for our border cities later on. Depending on how the Incan-Iroqouis war turns, we might expect an Incan assault in the future. Nothing could be worse than loosing our cities on the first attack.
Optionally, the spears might be changed to archers, if the need would arise.
About your estimation how many cities we'd need for the Incans, I agree with you, as well as about the course of the next towns to be founded.
One remark about the upgrade procedure: As long as you don't have a very strong economy, it has been my experience that upgrading does work only for very few units and should be done only in emergency situations. Most times, I've found it more useful to rush improvements with money and to make use of the enhanced production capability of bigger towns. But, of course, this is very much dependant on the current tactical situation.
In the MA, strong defenders are needed, so the answer to your question is yes, I like pikes and muskets. Of course, a good balance has to be found between attackers and defenders, and I tend to have more attackers than defenders (let's say a ratio of 6:4 or 7:3 - again depending on the situation). One should never forget, that it takes quite some time to secure the recently conquered territory/cities. That can't be done just with attackers, even if they have the same defensive values as a defending unit. But the attackers have to stay mobile which is contradictory to using them for defense purposes....
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
re: MoM, i need to think about that more. i don't think this is a wonder building type game but i do recognize the value of that wonder. right now we only have 2 lux nearby, with a 3rd to the far NW, right?
re: economy: we have currency so we can build some markets now to help. i'm not suggesting switch everything to build them now, but we should put them on the list. and i think lit is valuable, not for the GLib but for the libraries themselves. we have a number of cities on rivers so we should be able to research fairly quickly thru the MA if we build enough.
re: military: i see that our approach is very different. i do not bother with "flat foots" (ie, pikes, muskets) except for swords and, later, infantry. during the AA, i usually build around 8 to 15 horses which then upgrade to knights. to me, the knight is just as good at defending as a pike plus moves 2x as fast and attacks 4x better. my ratio is closer to 10 or 20:1. i tend to hold current gains by taking more territory, quelling resistors with hurt units and allowing the healed ones to move on if forces are sufficient. the further the new cities are from the front, the easier they are to hold usually, i like to hit with overwhelming force (say 12-15 swords + 3-5 horses in the AA, 15-20+ knights in the MA with sword support or MDI upgrades) and then keep building fast units while attacking to replace losses. the "flat-foots" can follow behind, providing some defense in hot spots or quelling resistance in others.
the only exception to this in my approach is for amphibious landings. i will take at least 2 defensive units (preferable muskets during the MA) to hold the ground on the 1st turn at landing. after that, the defensive units try to keep up as best they can.
well, the thing you got to love about civ is that there are many solutions to the same problem. i'm sure both your and my approach will achieve the same goals. i've developed my current approach in an effort to achieve domination victories as quickly as possible (gotm jason score multipliers favor fast finishes) and have had a good bit of success. based on that, my opinion of "defender" units tends to be pretty low.
final comment: you noted that the inca and iroquois are at war. if it lasts for a while, we may be able to take advantage of it and hit the local inca cities, quickly taking 3 or 4 and then signing a quick peace. 277g = how many warrior -> sword upgrades? maybe with 7-10 swords and 2 or 3 A.C.'s, we can do this.
re: economy: we have currency so we can build some markets now to help. i'm not suggesting switch everything to build them now, but we should put them on the list. and i think lit is valuable, not for the GLib but for the libraries themselves. we have a number of cities on rivers so we should be able to research fairly quickly thru the MA if we build enough.
re: military: i see that our approach is very different. i do not bother with "flat foots" (ie, pikes, muskets) except for swords and, later, infantry. during the AA, i usually build around 8 to 15 horses which then upgrade to knights. to me, the knight is just as good at defending as a pike plus moves 2x as fast and attacks 4x better. my ratio is closer to 10 or 20:1. i tend to hold current gains by taking more territory, quelling resistors with hurt units and allowing the healed ones to move on if forces are sufficient. the further the new cities are from the front, the easier they are to hold
usually, i like to hit with overwhelming force (say 12-15 swords + 3-5 horses in the AA, 15-20+ knights in the MA with sword support or MDI upgrades) and then keep building fast units while attacking to replace losses. the "flat-foots" can follow behind, providing some defense in hot spots or quelling resistance in others.the only exception to this in my approach is for amphibious landings. i will take at least 2 defensive units (preferable muskets during the MA) to hold the ground on the 1st turn at landing. after that, the defensive units try to keep up as best they can.
well, the thing you got to love about civ is that there are many solutions to the same problem. i'm sure both your and my approach will achieve the same goals. i've developed my current approach in an effort to achieve domination victories as quickly as possible (gotm jason score multipliers favor fast finishes) and have had a good bit of success. based on that, my opinion of "defender" units tends to be pretty low.
final comment: you noted that the inca and iroquois are at war. if it lasts for a while, we may be able to take advantage of it and hit the local inca cities, quickly taking 3 or 4 and then signing a quick peace. 277g = how many warrior -> sword upgrades? maybe with 7-10 swords and 2 or 3 A.C.'s, we can do this.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
I agree about that this is *NOT* a wonder building game. I am not much interested in wonders, either, just in the effects of some of them. And here, I think that the MoM is one of the most underrated early wonders. I brought up the suggestion to think about it since Paris' location is almost perfect for MoM (no waste, river, grass, hills, mountains..). Furthermore we have to take into consideration that it will take quite some time to get us access to the third luxury in the north, if we would manage to get it at all.
I agree about the libs as well, although we have to take into consideration that our little empire is limited in regards to capacity: We just cannot build libs AND markets AND units. Not now. But, all of them have to be on our list.
About the flat foods (nice expression, btw): Here indeed our approaches seem to be different, what doesn't mean that one is more valuable than the other. I agree to the value of fast-moving attackers and for that reason, make only small use of swords and MIs, whom I will use just for counter attacks on redlined and stacked enemy units next to my cities. For attack, I prefer horses, knights and cavalry. Sometimes I add a stack or two of arty-type units, escorted by defenders. Why I prefer to have some "real" defenders is just, because most times they are cheaper than fast attackers and because a garrison has to be a garrison - a garrison is very rarely to be moved. The "back and forth" approach of fast units works.... if it works. This means, there are quite some circumstances needed for that approach. The attackers have to have the chance to go to the front or back for recovery in one turn. Sometimes, this will not work. And then, you need more of the attackers to attack AND to quell resistance and perform military police duties, which means that you're using more shields for the same task.
I've just learned that a good mixture of the military makes for successful campaigns, but this may be discussed based on the situation.
About upgrading: each warrior > sword upgrade will cost us (30-10)*3 gold, so with 277 gold we would just be able to upgrade 4 warriors, thus spending almost our complete treasury, losing the chance to rush needed improvements as temples, markets, libs, barracks...
But again, all of this may and should be discussed, based on the current situation...
I agree about the libs as well, although we have to take into consideration that our little empire is limited in regards to capacity: We just cannot build libs AND markets AND units. Not now. But, all of them have to be on our list.
About the flat foods (nice expression, btw): Here indeed our approaches seem to be different, what doesn't mean that one is more valuable than the other. I agree to the value of fast-moving attackers and for that reason, make only small use of swords and MIs, whom I will use just for counter attacks on redlined and stacked enemy units next to my cities. For attack, I prefer horses, knights and cavalry. Sometimes I add a stack or two of arty-type units, escorted by defenders. Why I prefer to have some "real" defenders is just, because most times they are cheaper than fast attackers and because a garrison has to be a garrison - a garrison is very rarely to be moved. The "back and forth" approach of fast units works.... if it works. This means, there are quite some circumstances needed for that approach. The attackers have to have the chance to go to the front or back for recovery in one turn. Sometimes, this will not work. And then, you need more of the attackers to attack AND to quell resistance and perform military police duties, which means that you're using more shields for the same task.
I've just learned that a good mixture of the military makes for successful campaigns, but this may be discussed based on the situation.
About upgrading: each warrior > sword upgrade will cost us (30-10)*3 gold, so with 277 gold we would just be able to upgrade 4 warriors, thus spending almost our complete treasury, losing the chance to rush needed improvements as temples, markets, libs, barracks...
But again, all of this may and should be discussed, based on the current situation...
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
thanks for the upgrade calc. i didn't know what it was and it's nice to see that it's very straight forward
ok, guess gogf is up!
re: MoM... temple + MoM = 260 shields ~ 8 settlers. this is why i'm hedging. imho, we need those 8 towns very badly. our early growth was very stunted so i feel this compelling need to make up for it. with other cities chipping in the estimate 3-4 settler over that time, we will be a very strong empire, able to take over this continent, research faster than anybody, and build units faster than anybody. all those cities plus SoZ will make us very tough and will give us the flexibility to build markets, libraries, units, wonders, etc. just my $.02
ok, guess gogf is up!
re: MoM... temple + MoM = 260 shields ~ 8 settlers. this is why i'm hedging. imho, we need those 8 towns very badly. our early growth was very stunted so i feel this compelling need to make up for it. with other cities chipping in the estimate 3-4 settler over that time, we will be a very strong empire, able to take over this continent, research faster than anybody, and build units faster than anybody. all those cities plus SoZ will make us very tough and will give us the flexibility to build markets, libraries, units, wonders, etc. just my $.02
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Again, I agree with you. As you see, I understand and share your opinion to quite some degree.
We need cities. That is, why I didn't switch to MoM.
Nevertheless, as a last input for Gogf's final and wise decision, MoM will be like an early cathedral, with the added benefit of contributing to our treasury later. So, the added value of it would be culture (makes negotiations with other civs easier) and gold, which (as far as I'm not mistaken) adds to the net(!!).
But, again, as I see the need for cities as well, I won't have any bad feelings if Gogf's going for the settler.
We need cities. That is, why I didn't switch to MoM.
Nevertheless, as a last input for Gogf's final and wise decision, MoM will be like an early cathedral, with the added benefit of contributing to our treasury later. So, the added value of it would be culture (makes negotiations with other civs easier) and gold, which (as far as I'm not mistaken) adds to the net(!!).
But, again, as I see the need for cities as well, I won't have any bad feelings if Gogf's going for the settler.
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