Give me 18, but not on Earth - new PBEM

Majic said:
That's what I meant, if we go with a randomly generated map there will be no one to "blame". If we on the other hand has a mapmaker trying to balance things or make starts into some kind of handicap system there will always be players who don't think the mapmaker gave them a fair position.

For example, if I play a randomly generated map I wont blame anyone for giving me a start without horses or metal anywhere near. If there is a mapmaker trying to balance things I will probably wonder what the mapmaker was thinking giving me this and my neighbor that.

I prefer playing on a random map mostly because I don't want someone giving me a scenario or a challenge he think would be fun to play, or give me a push in any direction.

If we want some kind of handicap, I think the best way is to give certain leaders to the players.
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Very good point. Plus this way Calanthian can join the game and not miss out and we don't have to know that someone knows what the map looks like already.

Good idea with the leaders handicap, although theres only a couple of people that are known as being really good and a lot of people with "unknown" status... something to think about, but I might be fine with random, I'm not too concerned about that.

thanks for the input
 
Personally, I think the best handicap I can think of is that we just play at the highest difficulty level we are comfortably playing at. For some, it's Immortal, others it's Noble. Ofcourse I'm assuming you have already thought of this Nighthawk, but I really think it's best to just have a random map. That way, you can only blame the random map generator for your bad start. :P

Oh and a question out of curiousity: Why advanced start?
 
Advanced start has two advantages:
- it gives you more to do each turn for the first few moves, rather than clicking end of turn with nothing happeneing while waiting to build the first units.
- as you get an area defined in which to select your start city placements from, it can even up 'bad starts'
 
Ormylar said:
Personally, I think the best handicap I can think of is that we just play at the highest difficulty level we are comfortably playing at. For some, it's Immortal, others it's Noble. Ofcourse I'm assuming you have already thought of this Nighthawk, but I really think it's best to just have a random map. That way, you can only blame the random map generator for your bad start. :P

Oh and a question out of curiousity: Why advanced start?
Click to expand...

I don't think you can set difficulty for humans, thats only against AI's, ie. the AI's get different bonuses or penalties. so if we end up with 18 human players, difficulty won't come into play. I just wanted to know for the sake of knowing who's better and who's worse to try and handicap even just a little bit with leader selection.

I did advanced start because its such a large game and its going to be so slow moving that we could very quickly lose interest if we start at ground 0 and need to take a month to get through those first 10-15 mind numbing turns where its "move scout, hit enter". The advanced start is only 500 points, thats relatively minimal, by my estimation its no more than the first 10-15 turns and gives you just enough to actually have some tiles to work, maybe a couple of units. Just enough to give you something to work with when you have a turn so we don't all lose interest!
 
Calanthian said:
I'm interested in joining, as this really seems to get off the ground.

One essential thing is: I really think the map needs to be designed.
In the game "Chi " we also play on a huge map with 18 players (although 10 AI's), but frankly I think the map is a bad one, and for me it really kills a lot of the fun to be had.

(and in my opinion it says something that I am saying this about Chi, while I am leading the charts..)


And as I said before I am also willing to design it, and not play.
Or we could randomize the position someone gets in the game

(we did that before with a "double blind" procedure > one person makes a player order, a second a civ order, and a third combines them).

Play level: Well I guess I am in the Ozzy/Batsheeba and Paradigm category so that would be tier-1.
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LoR has a great planet generator http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325253
 
re: handicapping players who are more experienced (i.e. better ;))

I think this can be self-regulating, i.e. if you're a good player then choose a Leader you're uncomfortable with or who you don't consider good (e.g. I chose Catherine/Russia which I rate low-middle rather than, say, Cyrus/Darius who I rate quite high). Sure, we all have leaders we prefer and maybe people who are better than I am will tell me that Catherine is in fact an excellent leader, but I doubt any of us enjoy an easy win (or we'd play Chieftain every game) so no-one who's a phenomenal player is going to pick a great civ/leader combo.

As far as designing the map goes, I am concerned that a human cannot do this fairly without the map losing character. Plus as has been mentioned, advanced start does help a bit to balance out starts.
 
Yeah, I deliberately picked Asoka because he has a non-combat UU, a nearly useless UB, and I rate Gandhi a lot higher.

I'm not masochistic enough to go for Saladin though (although his UB is good) ;)
 
Playing as Justinian has always been my definition of masochism (The Wheel + Mysticism to start? So, do I tech to give my worker something to do, or go for Archery to defend from those pesky barbarians? And since I'm not financial I've absolutely 0 chance of using Mysticism to grab an early religion. His UU and UB are good, but they'd have to be to make up for the poor start you're all but guaranteed to have without an amazing location / popping a tech with a warrior)

Edit: I've just talked myself into starting a SP as Justinian. And I always thought I was more S than M.
 
You might want to ask Michkov whether Cataphracts are any good or not ;)
 
I think Calanthian needs to just officially say he is signing up to play. First, thats one person closer to getting started and 2) and it sounds like theres a decent amount of people who are fine with the random map combined with the advanced start.

And Paradigm I didnt have you in officially as Asoka, so I will do that!
 
Hey I'm being entertained already LoL.
In my opinion a random map is best here, the developers of the map generator had to decide how it would function for the great population of Civvers alike, they knew there would be games like this. A bad start isn't really a bad start if you consider all that is available to us. It is up to you to scout the lands, make Friends or enemies, trade or purchase those things YOUR Civilization needs to thrive. If we place to heavy of an opinion of what you start with, you'll never find out what you could end up with :)

I am a creative player beyond the standard design, if there is something I need and I know who has it but wants something in return I do not have, I will bring in a 3rd party or a 4th, what ever it takes to create a viable trade.
When players grasp the equations and become Godlike Civilizations, they will fear players like me who will reach out and stand in front of the weak and protect them because I know they will have my back. Furthermore it isn't always a bullet or a blade, but instead it could be a Company or a Culture that redefines a region. A Player(s) able to use a pen (Diplomacy) have every bit the chance to "Stand the Test of Time"
 
I would prefer a random map also. I for one don't mind being a position where I know early on that I'm not going to "win."

I'm assuming we're allowed to really negotiate with each other beyond just the standard BTS diplomatic options. That being the case, being a 2nd tier power or a junior partner in an alliance can still be fun.

A game needs Polands and Mexicos and Syrias too (no offense to those countries). Not everyone can be the US or China.
 
There are a variety of maps that I am not a fan of I prefer a realistic type world map.
Using the following set up does what we want; I of course will abide by the will of the group or our leader.:king:

Big_Small
Huge Map
Temperate Climate
Low Sea Level
Ancient Era
Normal Speed
Normal Continents
Random Island Size
Random Island Grouping
 
Another point;
If we have a reliable number say 14 or so...why bother adding AIs or waiting? It will take time to flesh the game out before we begin this 3 year adventure.
 
Well, 18 does sound a nice round number - and how often is that going to happen again ?

And we could be fleshing out the game now, and not stop others joining.

Obviously, the later they join the less input they get if it's already pretty much decided - however that happens.

Are we allowed to buy techs with the starting cash ? including religious techs ?

Also, as there is nothing in the game to stop two people having the same leaders and tribes, are we allowing this ?
 
When practising my model and again with Tectonics I didn't see anyway to stop that. Buying a tech will cost 60+ and if a neighbor is weak in resources when starting he may go for troops to take out a neighbor after 10 turns ;). Tectonics works too just it can be a bit more strange in land shapes. I used 550 for advanced start and 500. They both were adequate to get going.
Mysticism costs 75
Polytheism costs 150
Meditation costs 120
 
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