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GO1 - The Tsarina

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Optical, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    Oh, OK then. :p

    Still, never too early to start planning... :lol:
     
  2. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Pacal sounds nice. But what kind of roleplay would that be? Few and large cities + becoming the tech leader?
    Chemistry should do, indeed. But if we set our Science slider to 0%, we've got surplus gold... we could switch to US in a GA for rush-buying frigates, of course.
     
  3. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    Not a bad idea... just remember that rush-buying, like whipping, is extremely costly to do unless 1 or more Hammers have been invested in a build item... i.e. have a build item like a Frigate get built for 1 turn before rush-buying.


    If we weren't going to capture a ton of Cities, we might need the Gold to pay for our Maintenance Costs, but we should get plenty of Gold from capturing Cities, which will help to pay for our ever-growing Maintenance Costs.

    Coming out of a Golden Age will hurt our economy, though, so do try and keep some Gold reserves around.


    Also, don't forget to Draft units in Cities that have a decent surplus of Happiness. Drafting anger is similar to whipping anger except that you get 3 Unhappy faces per Drafting action. Otherwise, it stacks up and wears off in an identical manner to whipping.


    Also, I wouldn't give back any of the decent Cities to one of our Vassals. If we really want a City Defender, we can just wait for the City to come out of revolt, spend 1 turn building a military unit (like a Longbowman) and then whip it on the following turn. In the case where the City is going to shrink 1 population point on the turn of coming out of revolt, we could just whip the Longbowman immediately... we'd use up 3 population points to whip it, 1 more population point than it should normally cost, but we were going to lose 1 population point from the City shrinking anyway. Alternatively, and this idea is possibly better, first whip a Forge or Courthouse and then whip a Longbowman a few turns later after you have at least 1 Hammer invested in the Longbowman, with the assumption that if you don't wait 1 turn building a Forge/Courthouse and then whip it, we'll probably lose population points for several turns in a big-sized City, so you might as well get one "big project" out of those people that would have otherwise starved off. Anyway, use your best judgment while knowing the options available to you.


    Note that if we're still in a Golden Age, you have the option of switching Civics, but I think that we're happy with staying in:
    Police State, Nationalism, Slavery, and Free Religion

    If we have access to Mercantilism and aren't already in it, we could revolt into that if we're still in a Golden Age or during our next Golden Age.

    If we still haven't captured the Mausoleum of Maussollus, we should probably target capturing that City soon, so that when we execute our next Golden Age, said Golden Age will be extra long.
     
  4. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    To Dhoom:

    - We're not in a golden age; but the TM is one turn from completion (it's in one of the island cities).
    - Persepolis contains the MoM.
    - Making our conquered Persian cities a colony is going to do a few things :
    It'll give a short-term boost to our economy.
    It'll immediately give 2 military units a city (to our vassal), which allows our garrisons to join the fight before the revolt ends.
    It'll lower our Domination land percentage, but might make the war faster.
    Probably just leaving them as they are is the best choice long-term (being the 15 turns long-term we've still left) . It was just a proposition.
     
  5. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    Do we own Persepolis? If yes, great!


    I'm sure that it will. However, I am concerned that this fact will not really help us toward our goal of winning a Domination Victory. I'm pretty sure that we agreed we wanted to win a water map via Domination, which isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. It will be a nice notch on some players' belts.

    As was said previously, liberating Cities puts us further away from Domination.

    Also, as was also said previously, we don't really need much in the way of techs or money beyond Chemistry and keeping a good chunk of Gold at all times (say, 1000+ Gold) just in case our economy really starts to go sour, in which case we'll not lose our units to Strikes. However, this fact does not mean that we need to make a Domination Victory slower by liberating Cities, as doing so would just drag out the length of time that we would have to keep paying out Gold to our expensive military men and women.


    I don't think that we're that short on units and even if we are, we can just leave some Cities defenceless until we can whip a Longbowman or other City defender for each of these Cities in the Cities themselves.

    It's not like an AI can build Galleons to attack our Cities.

    Besides, think of it this way: how many units does it take to capture a new AI City? More than 1? Yes, most definitely! So, how does the math work in our favour if we give away 1 City just to get 1 more unit for the fighting? Likely, you'll lose 3 or 4 units just to capture a new City.

    Thus, we would give away 4 Cities (which would count as half Land Area and Population toward Domination, so it would be like giving away 2 Cities) just to gain 1 City. That math doesn't add up to me.

    Finally, since the AIs are on separate islands, the AI garrison units that appear will NOT SEE BATTLE. It would a different story if an enemy AI were sending a Stack of Doom at our newly-captured Cities and we only had, say, 1 Maceman or 1 Horse Archer to defend each of our Cities. In that case, it would be nice for 2 defending units belonging to our vassal to appear. But, that case is not what we see here, since it's not a Pangaea-type of map.


    How? Give away the equivalent of 2 Cities to capture the equivalent of 1 City?

    Besides, once we give away those population points, we can't get them back. They will be in our Vassal's hands forever.

    So, while Final Score does not matter on your deathbed, it can still be nice to end the game with a very good score. We will get a noticeably lower score by giving away population points in this manner.


    And it does make sense in certain cases:
    1. If Domination is a long way off and you can't afford to keep the Cities would be one example
    OR
    2. If the Cities are under threat by another AI and you can't get defenders of your own there in time would be another example
    OR
    3. If the AI can do more with the Cities than you can. Generally, you're talking about an Immortal or Deity level game, where an AI can grow the Cities faster, build things faster, and do lots of things better than you can, so it can make sense to give back Cities (as long as you are certain that the AI will never break away from being your Vassal), since an Immortal or Deity level AI will make good use of those Cities. Unfortunately, on this difficulty level, an AI will just waste the Cities


    So, it's certainly a neat idea, but it shouldn't be necessary at all. As long as we start collecting Gold after learning Chemistry (i.e. go to a 0% Science Rate after learning Chemistry), such that we are using our Sliders only really for a Cultural Slider if we start to see unhappiness problems, then we shouldn't have to worry about running out of Gold in this game at all, even if we keep all of the AIs' Cities on the map.
     
  6. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    Remember, if we're short on units, just Draft some more units and increase the Cultural Slider if people start to get unhappy about it.

    Note that Drafting is a bit annoying, since every time that you do it, the game "lags" momentarily, which can often make you forget about going to other Cities to do the rest of the drafting. Don't forget to go and Draft in other Cities until the Draft button stops working, and do so on every turn.

    In that manner, we'll have way more units to work with than we will "have unavailable to us by having to garrison Cities with 1 unit each.
     
  7. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    ... Who's next?
     
  8. hoplitejoe

    hoplitejoe Top fun-poster

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    Mosher (after that is Olaf)
     
  9. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    Mosher asked to be skipped... er... a long time ago. TBH, I'd almost forgotten about this so I'd better get it done as soon as possible.
     
  10. woopdeedoo

    woopdeedoo Chieftain

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  11. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    Whoops. Will try and play this weekend, promise.
     
  12. hoplitejoe

    hoplitejoe Top fun-poster

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    You promise to try and play it! Brave words :p
     
  13. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    I know, I know. :p
     
  14. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    I have the save, but not playing until later this week due to RL commitments.
     
  15. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    *Tap tap tap*
     
  16. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    *sigh* I don't even remember why I didn't play it. Next weekend? Everyone, feel free to remind me via VM - continuously - next weekend until I do it.
     
  17. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Hmm...
    Like now? ;)
     
  18. Optical

    Optical The Fall of the Eleventh

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    Like tomorrow. It's still Friday. ;)
     
  19. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Really? I thought it was Saturday in New Sealand.
     
  20. hoplitejoe

    hoplitejoe Top fun-poster

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    They are only 1 day ahead :p
     

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