God exists

[warpus]

Not all thoughts are created equal.

The only thing you can know by studying people's thoughts is what they have thought. It doesn't necessarily have to lead to facts about the external world. For that you need more than just thoughts.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Thoughts do not = fact. So basically you are delusional.

Thought is a reality of its own and one can argue more potent then any socalled physical fact or limitation. Since people are mainly mental beings I woulds say that much of the human progress of millenia could be atributed to thoughts changing and moulding physical "facts".

...and their conclusion is that this is (a) god:

This is just a popular and symbolic representation usefull for physical mind. In reality no demigod or higher force are bound to one particular form and shape just like your imagination can be practically boundless.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Not all thoughts are created equal.

The only thing you can know by studying people's thoughts is what they have thought. It doesn't necessarily have to lead to facts about the external world. For that you need more than just thoughts.

He talked earlier about God's word, so i believe those thoughts are based on it most of the time. One can disagree with what it seems to tell, or simply not understand it, so thought is required here unfortunatelly.

But, I believe that the "important" thoughts about God are "solid" whether they have been created in antiquity or in modern era, because after all the human did not evolved since then. Pretty much more solid than somebody comming in such a thread and saying "fart" just because he thinks that's funny.

Also about the three monotheisms I don't know precisely (i have so many reads to do !) but i'm pretty sure that they are similar in the conclusions we try to have here.

 

[bhavv]

So all thinkers are delusional? If this post I quoted is your thoughts, then you are also delusional? Do you have proof backing up the fact, that today's religions are older than 3500 years? The only "facts", I have found state that no one knows the form religion had before 3000 years ago. What we have is only people's thoughts after that time. How can you trust a person's thoughts who lived 3000 years ago any more than a person living today?

To conclude that thoughts = fact just because your brain thinks it is completely delusional.

 

[Naokaukodem]

The first part is all true. But I don't "need" a superior entity. It would certainly be nice to have one (especially if this God wasn't an insecure, self-centered ***hole like most of the monotheistic world's ones) but if I need one I'm SOOL because there isn't a big papa with an infinite warm embrace. I even agree though that it might be adaptive to believe there is... to a point.

See the thing is, the fact that I don't know myself fully along with my loneliness & isolation pushes me to interact with my fellow human beings. It's been said "hell is other people" & that is certainly true but so is heaven.

What we need is not some cosmic teddy bear to cling to when we're sad or a cosmic gps to follow blindly when we're lost. We need to be able to get along with, learn from & create a better world with our fellow man.

You think "God" is going to solve climate change? War? Poverty? Any form of human misery or self-destruction? Of course not. Only contentious man can do that (or die trying).

We will never fully know or understand ourselves or the universe. Instead of being insecure about that & inventing stories to make us feel more secure let us band together & do the best we can with what we have for the good of all.

Seems legit, and thanks for your optimism. Although if you are into an affective misery, how can you even believe you can do anything with people around you ? Some day people have lost their instinct of how one can live, and by live i mean talk, think, even sleep, etc... you obviously can't help yourself in such a shape, because the problem comes from you and you only. Logically, you try to find a solution in yourself, which is pretty much delusional and aggravate your case. And if you don't find a solution, you can't go find help, because anyway nobody will understand you only if you manage to tell them. This is a vicious circle.

The only mean to break such a circle is believing in God. Just because everybody does. They do, or they are happy enough to not even think about it. They are pretty much ignorant of the dangers of spirit. Too much thinking, or not in a good direction, is evil for sure. That is I believe the man lost into the ocean in the Bible. Okay, not everybody needs God. Everybody needs it potentially, because everyone can lose itself before to be intimely aware of how not to lose itself. Or simply because they faulted (juvenile pride ?), they didn't have the sense of what is good or bad in time. Or maybe it's just vertigo. Or a mix of the two.

 

[warpus]

But, I believe that the "important" thoughts about God are "solid" whether they have been created in antiquity or in modern era

They may be solid thoughts, but thoughts have no relation to the real word unless you explicitly make them as such. A solid thought can be a very poor representation of what actually happens in reality.

 

[madviking]

Everything is made of God/original(absolute) consciousness. Matter itself is just a form of transfigured consciousness. There are no unsurmountable barriers between consciousness, energy and matter.

since when were you a spinozist?

 

[timtofly]

Not all thoughts are created equal.

The only thing you can know by studying people's thoughts is what they have thought. It doesn't necessarily have to lead to facts about the external world. For that you need more than just thoughts.

Neither was I doing any preaching nor attempting to convince anyone of anything. If it came across that way, it was not intended to. If however, one thinks I am posting my thoughts with authority, then they will have to take that up with God. If there is no God, then it is just equal footing?

There may be accepted facts out there, that others trust more than my posted thoughts, but I can be just as skeptical as anyone else. If posting thoughts and attempting to come to an understanding is delusional, how can anyone learn? I could be delusional, never claimed otherwise.

 

[warpus]

I didn't say you were preaching or anything of the sort! I was just pointing out that studying people's thoughts alone isn't going to get you far, unless your sole purpose is to study thoughts. If you are trying to understand some independent entity that exists independently of thoughts, thoughts alone will not get you very far.

 

[Narz]

It does not have to be redundant and the same thing to be an image. Humans are the physical image of a non-physical being.

Does not compute. How can you have an image of something non-physical?

Seems legit, and thanks for your optimism. Although if you are into an affective misery, how can you even believe you can do anything with people around you ?

I'm not "into" misery. I can do alot for those around me. People who can suffered depression & thought deeply about life have alot to offer others.

Some day people have lost their instinct of how one can live, and by live i mean talk, think, even sleep, etc... you obviously can't help yourself in such a shape, because the problem comes from you and you only. Logically, you try to find a solution in yourself, which is pretty much delusional and aggravate your case. And if you don't find a solution, you can't go find help, because anyway nobody will understand you only if you manage to tell them. This is a vicious circle.

No man is an island. Problems never come from oneself alone, everything is a dance between man & society (his parents, friends, educators, etc.). One can feel trapped & stuck & I don't believe all the answers are within (otherwise I wouldn't read so much & seek out the opinions/ideas of those who've achieved more than me).

The only mean to break such a circle is believing in God. Just because everybody does. They do, or they are happy enough to not even think about it. They are pretty much ignorant of the dangers of spirit. Too much thinking, or not in a good direction, is evil for sure. That is I believe the man lost into the ocean in the Bible. Okay, not everybody needs God. Everybody needs it potentially, because everyone can lose itself before to be intimely aware of how not to lose itself. Or simply because they faulted (juvenile pride ?), they didn't have the sense of what is good or bad in time. Or maybe it's just vertigo. Or a mix of the two.

Believing in God is not a prerequisite for happiness or success. Plenty of happy people don't believe & plenty of miserable ones do (comparing oneself to some ideal of perfection is a surefire path to unhappiness. Being inspired by real life people with their moods, failings, addictions & limitations is the only way. Who could be inspired by a perfect man who never had to deal with lusts or distractions?

 

[timtofly]

Does not compute. How can you have an image of something non-physical?

That is why some do not agree and say God is no more than a super human. As pointed out some claim humans conceived God as a concept and then wrote that a human is an image of God because that is how humans imagined God to be.

God decided that the concept of a human would be his representation on earth. Modern humans have a lot of physical objects that started out only as a concept. They are still the image of that non-physical concept.

The only difference is that I do not accept that humans were the ones who came up with the concept of God. It was God who came up with the concept of humans who are capable of coming up with concepts the same as the God they represent.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Each of us begins somewhere with at least one unprovable assumption, often more. From there we build our world views and ideas on god, religion, science and evidence.

God (or Dog if you prefer) alone is REAL: Infinite, eternal, permanent and unchanging.

The physical universe and everything it contains is one manifestation of what is REAL. It is a coherent and structured manifestation, but incomplete and impermanent. With effort, life might move beyond the "separateness" that is the hallmark of our universe, and glimpse the unity that underlies all its things.

 

[timtofly]

I think some prefer Allah or Lord.

 

[Berzerker]

Humans are the physical image of a non-physical being.

How does that work?

In fact God told humans not to make any image of him, because there is no image outside of humans that comes close.

When did God tell people not to make images of God?

Do you think that God experiences evil?

Of course, evil exists and God created existence

Who is the us?

Elohim = gods

God was talking to the angels.

Elohim /= angels

Whomever "us" and "our" refers to, its somebody who shares God's "image"

 

[Naokaukodem]

They may be solid thoughts, but thoughts have no relation to the real word unless you explicitly make them as such.

Actually religious thoughts are exclusively about the word of God.

I'm not "into" misery. I can do alot for those around me. People who can suffered depression & thought deeply about life have alot to offer others.

Not talking about you specifically, the "you" was awkward there.

No man is an island. Problems never come from oneself alone, everything is a dance between man & society (his parents, friends, educators, etc.). One can feel trapped & stuck & I don't believe all the answers are within (otherwise I wouldn't read so much & seek out the opinions/ideas of those who've achieved more than me).

But what if you are not conscious of your real problem, or just believe that you are the only one on earth having it ? A dialogue is made with two people, if you can't dialogue then there is not any.

Believing in God is not a prerequisite for happiness or success. Plenty of happy people don't believe & plenty of miserable ones do (comparing oneself to some ideal of perfection is a surefire path to unhappiness. Being inspired by real life people with their moods, failings, addictions & limitations is the only way. Who could be inspired by a perfect man who never had to deal with lusts or distractions?

For the man lost in ocean it can be helpful. Are ascetics miserable ? I don't think so. Are beggars miserable ? Most of them have a rich social life, and wouldn't want it to be changed. Of course believing in God doesn't do miracles ; but it can act as a crutch for the one who wants to embrace life.

It's like having a generalized cancer : you wish you never had that because it's horrible. If only something could remove it from you... the man lost in ocean is like having a generalized cancer of the mind. Only difference : it can be recovered !

 

[bhavv]

I am depressed. It must be because I no longer believe in God. Or maybe its because people who do believe in God hate me for not being an atheist apostate scum.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I am depressed. It must be because I no longer believe in God. Or maybe its because people who do believe in God hate me for not being an atheist apostate scum.

People who believe in God have some love for God as well. You cant really love God and hate man in the same time. So you can relax....

 

[warpus]

Actually religious thoughts are exclusively about the word of God.

My point is that if you study the thoughts people have about an object and not the object instead - you are going to learn what people think about the object.. and not anything about the object itself.

As such what you learn might or might not correspond to reality, since you didn't study it. It does however correspond fully to other people's thoughts, which is fine, but you can't claim otherwise.

 

[bhavv]

You cant really love God and hate man in the same time.

Tell that to all the abrahamists.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Love God and hate man" is a pretty fair summary of Calvinism.