GOTW hacked

[Random Fires]

Hmm .. wouldnt a 'have a leader board for each victory type' just result in games where the people who perfected the domination route, would just copy that to the other victory types and stop prior to conquering the last city? That would leave you with the complete map, 6-7 cities and minimal AI comptetion, by the year 2X00 BC. I cant imagine a better start for ANY victory type.

This is such a good point, I thought I'd quote it again.

All this is just theory. And I might be totally wrong. In any case I think when you just view Game of the Week as Puzzle of the Week, then it is actually quite fascinating (I'm at 2400BC on Chieftain still trying to better it). It's just not Civ as we know it.

And an even better one. It's a puzzle, a new one every week. I never thought I'd even play this mode, but when I saw the scores and started to play I found it actually addictive. It has actually helped my overall game skill, like playing scenario's have.
Learning sometimes requires losing.
The Leaderboards are just some numbers, and if numbers were so much fun, we'd be all play with calculators.

 

[jayeffaar]

Until someone shows me a step-by-step method to win this week's game by 2800BC, I'm not buying it.

I'm staring at the map right now (on civgameoftheweek), and there's just no way you can even get to from Moscow to Saladin's capital by that time, no matter how good a strategy you have, even if you manage to magically pick up horses or boats. Even less if you stop along the way for at least 4 fights.

 

[sigmakan]

As promised:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7047816#post7047816

 

[dk1421]

I was actually trying to go for a Cultural victory for GOTW, but I just couldn't hold off the blood-lust much longer. I was extremely surprised to find that the leaderboards were not by victory types. I had just naturally assumed they would be. Hence, I'm like the 5ththe from the bottom last time I checked a few days ago.

Victory type leaderboards would be really great! And yes, there will be the typical ones beating it by 2800BC, but like someone mentioned earlier, it will just get you thinking even harder....how did they do that?...and make you a better player.

 

[christian_g]

Maybe 2K can tell us for the leaders in the past weeks how many times they started the GOTW. It will not change the leaderboard, but it can give the other the right view about how to do it.

When someone can conquer the world in 15 turns, separate leaderboards by victory type can not help as the guys winning in 15 turns can spend that very little time again for the best start for the other victory types. I am sure that in time the maps will improve and if domination will no longer be possbile so soon then a filter by type in the leaderboards will help.

 

[KAZUY4]

I think you should get less point depending in how many times you play the GOTW. I usually play the GOTW twice, one in Emperor and another one in Deity. But for those who spend the whole week playing it over and over again of course are going to find a perfect way to finish him.

 

[jayeffaar]

I think you should get less point depending in how many times you play the GOTW. I usually play the GOTW twice, one in Emperor and another one in Deity. But for those who spend the whole week playing it over and over again of course are going to find a perfect way to finish him.

Yes, but then people would just practice with a throwaway account and do their final round with their main account, once they've perfected their strategy. There is simply no way to prevent that, so they didn't even try.

 

[benkenobi]

I think the chieftain one might be possible, because i won by 1000 bc putting all research (4 per turn) and building horseman armies

But deity, no chance, the 2nd place guy on deity got 500 ad, and the rest finished it by 1900's ad

also, you start out as spain

totally agree with you guys there seems to be something bogus unless they are building a wonder until almost complete then making it obsolete by achieving a tech which obsoletes the wonder, rendering all production into a dozen or so units but still not by 3000bc and deity

 

[Random Fires]

I think you should get less point depending in how many times you play the GOTW. I usually play the GOTW twice, one in Emperor and another one in Deity. But for those who spend the whole week playing it over and over again of course are going to find a perfect way to finish him.

This the best I've read so far. You could minus one year for each time played, that would be be kinda cool;
eg: " 2629" B.C. (instead of a flat score of " xx00 B.C")
Score or no score: Maybe the dev's planned GOTW to be played as it is?(I know, crazytalk) People seem to want tailor made games these days. (Maybe that's the next gaming generation)

In the end, no matter what we want done to leaderboards , and what they actually do, doesn't matter.
People will always be at the top, or others will be below in any leaderboard, any game.
The same attitudes towards that "leaderboard" will prevail. I enjoy playing games more then the scores after them.

 

[Padma]

Maybe the dev's planned GOTW to be played as it is?(I know, crazytalk)

FWIW: Back in November this is exactly how they presented GOTW to DanQ and myself. So, as far as I can see, it's working as designed....

 

[PirateRobert]

This entire issue is the lack of a random seed.
The game plays EXACTLY the same every time. if you follow exactly the same steps. If you have a fight, you will win or lose and take exactly the same amount of damage every time. This allows the player to "Metagame" his way through the game.

I think they need to go to a random seed for the game play. (keep the fixed seed for the map generation if thats what they are doing) That way the game will be slightly different each time you play. Then these people would be playing the GAME rather than PLAYING the game mechanics (metagaming)

Or at least have TWO games of the week.. one with a fixed seed for those rats who LIKE to run complex mazes (which is what the GOTW is right now) and those of us who like to play a more randomized game where you cant count on a winning a specific battle (or finding a specific bonus in a hut or whatever) because thats what happened last time you played the game at this point.

GOTW kind of reminds me of that old video game... PACKMAN! once you know the pattern for a map, your done. Move on to the next one.

So, right now, the leader boards only reflect those people who have the patience to sit down and memorize the pattern over an over and over. BORING.

Sorry to come off so negative.. but it irks me to see such a fine feature with great potential boiled down to packman on steroids.

Rob

 

[patrickkrebs]

hey guys,

just to let you know, grumbles and spencer (the aussies of whom you speak) aren't hacking the game. they have a very specific strategy, but i've tried it out, and it works. it's just really fast!

so rest assured, GOTW is still okay. just competitive.

Then patch whatever they are exploiting.
REVISION - I'm a moron... it's totally possible!

 

[Random Fires]

Well, I thought this was a dead issue.. hacking, cheating exploiting, what ever. The link below will show year a 3000Bc score in cheiften. In it you'll notice nothing special, no insane bonus, quantum leaps or whatever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJnLYT_5zk8

 

[VirtualMark]

Nicely done randomfires. I was just one turn behind you, i think its when you changed one tile from science to production at the beginning, would give you and extra turn. I still wonder how people get such good times on deity, i find it much harder. It would be interesting if anyone posts a video showing a 3000bc deity victory.

 

[Random Fires]

Yep, you hit it. Since I was getting more then enough gold for the warrior rush, I figured, why not try to get horses tech out the fastest I can. Getting horse tech one turn earlier mad all the difference in the world.. Even grinned ear to ear strolling up to the cities seeing no flags in three of them. Such a little thing made all the difference. This why I say, random seed may effect the game, but over all strat casts the bigger shadow.
Looking at this weeks map, and the leaderboards, I better wait till dusk to play.

 

[patrickkrebs]

I played last night - it's totally possible I bow my heads to those that figured it out before, beating the thing in 10 turns is totally possible - I did it on Chieften, Warlord, and King. It takes longer the harder you get but the same strat still holds up.

 

[erislover]

This entire issue is the lack of a random seed.
The game plays EXACTLY the same every time. if you follow exactly the same steps. If you have a fight, you will win or lose and take exactly the same amount of damage every time. This allows the player to "Metagame" his way through the game.

The way it is now, the result is pure skill and detective work. Adding a random seed to GotW only means those on the top of the leaderboard are vying for the best luck. If you can't get on the leaderboards now, my guess is you wouldn't be able to with a random seed, either.

I think they need to go to a random seed for the game play. (keep the fixed seed for the map generation if thats what they are doing) That way the game will be slightly different each time you play.

The game can be different each time you play if you do something different each time you play. But are you saying you wouldn't do something different, because you're always picking the best move? --but this is exactly what GotW caters to. What's the problem, really?

Then these people would be playing the GAME rather than PLAYING the game mechanics (metagaming)

They are playing the game. The problem is, you don't like the game they're playing.

 

[PirateRobert]

erislover.

You are correct. I do NOT like the game they have made. If they intend to leave it the way it is, then so be it. The rest of the game is good.

Since many people seem to want a CivPuzzle game, then they should keep it. Perhaps add another Game of the Week which has the random elements in it.

One thing people always argue is that Random elements mean that the leaderboard leaders will be the ones with the best luck. This is not true.

One of the many key skills to gaming is creating a strategy which accounts for luck (or random circumstances as they are called) and is able to prevail in spite of the randomness.

Games with no random elements other than the player are simply puzzles. Complex puzzles to be sure.

What I am interested in is a game about history.. about civilization.. about expanding your empire and defeating your opponents. One where something unexpected can happen and the player has to have the skill to deal with the consequences rather than just reload (or replay the entire game to get a better result.)

Speaking of reloading.. why did they remove the save game feature for GoTW? they should have left it in. Instead of playing the game like this:

Turn A - Turn B - Turn C - Turn (oops, not the best choice) - Quit - Restart
Turn A - Turn B - Turn C - Turn D (ahh.. thats better).

You would have this:
Turn A (save) - Turn B (save) - Turn C (save) - Turn (oops.. wrong move) - Reload Turn C - Turn D (ahh.. thats better)

The two game examples are IDENTICAL in result... but the second one is less tedious to play.

(From the Manual: I quote. "Note that to prevent cheating and ensure an identical experience for all user, the ability to save your game is disabled while playing the game of the week)

HUH? To prevent cheating? I suppose they are worried about people hacking a save file. Certainly cant be to prevent saving every turn to replay a turn to get a better result.

I know someone will bring up chess as a counter example so I will address that. While the game mechanics for Chess are not random at all, Chess actually does have a random element to it. Its called your opponent. The complexity of possible moves and move trees is extremely high in chess.. high enough that we cannot compute all the possibilities with modern computers... yet. Once a computer can process every move tree then it will be unbeatable by a human. But until then, humans will make flawed assessments and bad moves that another humans can take advantage of.

Rob