Goz-12 - 5CC - Large map - Space Race

[zerksees]

You only live once. My thoughts are to go ahead with the spy plant in Germany. If it works, you may as well try the steal. The odds go up considerably with Intel Agency.

The safer route would be to steal steel, then get refining and combustion as free. If Germany is still the only one with them, we could sell them around to try to get electronics.

Either way, do it at the start of a turn, so you can move units around in case you need to shift to a defensive posture.

Is ToE going to finish on your turnset?

I don't know about the other question.

 

[Whomp]

I think we can hold off the Germans too. It may slow down our research (Iroquois city taking ) but we can easily handle the Germans and they need some attention too. There are plenty of units that can still be used this turnset if need be. I say be audacious and steal. It would be nice to know where the oil is for our future conquests.

ToE will finish in two turns so the sooner we steal the better.
On the embassy steal I'm not sure either. My guess is they are hard coded differently since you're going at it along a different path.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK guys, thanks.

One more question: if I get lucky and have to choose another tech beyond Combustion, should I take Flight or Mass Production?

 

[Whomp]

Bombers are huge in this spy quest since we're untouchable with bombers so I say flight. Tanks can wait.

 

[zerksees]

Flight is a big advantage until the others get it and start building flak and fighters. I would like a tank army - but with our current research approach we will be able to steal/trade for it real soon anyway, so flight is good. Plus once we have lethal bombard from bombers we can upgrade the rest of the hwachas to arty. Did I mention I really like artillery? So after some debate I'll second the vote for flight.

 

[Bucephalus]

Pre-flight:

Attempt to plant spy in Babylon; he is caught and killed.
Attempt to plant spy in Germany; he is caught and killed.
Attempt to plant spy in Iroquois; he is caught and killed.

So, with the Intelligence Agency apparently closed for Xmas, I'm left with a problem.
The situation as it stands is that Babylon has Steel, Germany has Steel and Refining at least, ditto Iroquois. The ToE is due in 2, and the best we're going to get is parity. Yeah, well not on my watch; time for the diplomats to earn their keep.

Our man in Babylon came up with the goods:

Then, not to be outdone our man in Berlin pulled some strings and....

I've paused here in case this changes anything: The situation now is still ToE in 2;
Iroquois have Combustion, which I can't steal because the Embassy is closed for the duration of the war, and it will be 4 turns until I can try for a Spy again.

We have tech parity with Germany;

We are up Refining on Babylon; they are broke and cannot afford Refining.

If we can only find a way to get Combustion from Iroquois in the next two turns, we'll have two monopoly techs.

Any bright idea's?

Edit:
We have no Oil, and there is none nearby. The nearest is in Iroquois territory due South of Oil Springs (of course). It would need us to raze at least 2, probably 3 cities to get a colony on it.

In the mean time I can buy it from Bismark; the question is, will he sell it cheaper now while we can't build any units with it, than he will in two turns time when we can build bombers?

 

[Whomp]

Well I doubt the Aztecs will help much either. We can grab combustion and flight from ToE then trade combustion around likely for techs and oil. Because everyone's at war with the Iroquois it's not like they're trading it around. I think that's our best bet. Then two turns later we can try to plant more spies.

Happy Holidays everyone!

 

[zerksees]

Bad luck on spy planting - at least no DOW's

I agree with Whomp on this one.

 

[Bucephalus]

Zerksees, while you are on-line do you have an answer to the 'Oil' question I posed?

Merry Xmas, Guys!

 

[Whomp]

I don't think the Germans will value oil as high at refining as they would at flight or combustion. I think we need to trade for it along with our tech trade to them though trading oil for gpt would be preferable to the Germans.

 

[zerksees]

Argh - I missed your second post about oil Bucephalus. My instincts say the AI won't know the difference, but I can't recall actually having this scenario in a game, so it is just a guess.

The AI will buy iron long after it is obsolete, so being able to tell oil has more value to us once we have the right tech is doubtful IMO.

I doubt the Germans will take gpt for oil at this point. How many oil do they have and where are they. Denying them oil would be a big coup.

Merry Christmas! The little zerksees's had a lot of fun today after being showered with gifts from grandparents and Santa.

 

[Bucephalus]

Slow going guys, Xmas is getting in the way so I'm playing it piecemeal.

We now have Steel, Refining, Combustion, Flight, Mass Production and Electronics.
Iroquois have MT, which I shall try to steal if I can get a Spy in. Fortunately they lack Rubber.

More later....

 

[zerksees]

6 techs in a turn - now that's a tech pace I like
Thanks for the update - no rush.

 

[Bucephalus]

6 techs in a turn - now that's a tech pace I like
Thanks for the update - no rush.

Thanks, Zerksees.

I'm hopeful of two more yet, MT and our free MA tech.

I'm thinking of setting Rojo to a Palace pre-build, either for a Tank Army or UN/ SETI; or alternatively leave Rojo building it's Army, leaving Seoul to go for UN/ SETI (bearing in mind we should have a clear run off a monopoly tech).

Any thoughts?

 

[zerksees]

Tank army is not critical. I would not want to take a chance we might waste the shields, so let Rojo accumulate shields and we can decide what to do with them (army or wonder). There is always a chance we can get an army from a great leader.

 

[Whomp]

Interesting times and good show Buce. I think it's time for a lot of prebuilds and none will go to waste in the modern age. Armies (tank, mech or modern armor), UN for the block (1000s), Apollo (500s), space parts, (possibly Longevity(1000s) for 2 citizens on growth or Internet (1000s) for research labs), Seti (1000s) if we research but it still seems expensive to me.

Out of curiousity, if we were to research can we get 4-5 turn research?

Here's another crazy thought regarding the slaves. Once they're finished working rails and developing everything that can be developed we will need some for airfields and colonies for oil, uranium and aluminum. We need oil for everything important. Tanks, Mechs, Mod. Armor and bombers along with aluminum and uranium for space parts.

What about joining slaves from eliminated civilizations into our cities? They could be converted into scientists and speed up our research considerably. I'm not 100% sure but my recollection is foreign citizens are not impacted by unhappiness if the civ is gone.

 

[Bucephalus]

One last Spy attempt as I belatedly realise that Aztecs also have Combustion; our Spy is caught and killed.

I'm holding back our forces until the ToE is in; I'm hoping still to get a shot at stealing Combustion, if Germany pick it up.

Enter:

1405 AD:

Aha, Germany now has Combustion. The big question is, do I try to steal it?

Yes, is the short answer:

Disappointingly, Iroquois have Flight and Mass Production.

Move units toward St. Regis to get some more 'research tax' from the Iroquois.
I'm going to take Oil from the Germans now for 24gpt & WM; I'm convinced that the price will go up once we can actually make use of it.

Found rubber colony;

IBT:

Iroquois/ Celts Peace;

1410 AD:


Pyong> Coal Plant > Stock Ex.
Seoul> Coal Plant > Stock Ex.
Rojo> Theory of Evolution > Stock Ex.

Iroquois have MT but no Rubber.

IBT:

Iroquois have at least one bomber; 4 Iro Cav enter our territory

1415 AD:

Destroy St. Regis (8-0) liberating 1861g;
Bombard Iro Cav but they're on a mountain so I'll hold back attacking until they retreat.

IBT:

Germany/ Hittites Peace;
Byz/ Germany Peace;
Iro Cav attack stack, no casualties (13-0);
Germans mop-up Iro Cav in our territory;

1420 AD:

BB> Stock Ex > Bomber;
Nampo> Coal Plant;
Upgrade all of our H'wacha's;

IBT:

Nada:

1425 AD:

Try to plant Spy on Iro; caught and killed (sigh)
Seoul> Stock Ex > Flak;
Pyong. Stock Ex > Bomber;
Rojo> Stock Ex > Bomber; There is no pre-build available, the Palace being only 4 turns;

IBT:

Iroquois found Kiohero next to the ruins of St. Regis;

1430 AD:

Hmm, a problem has arisen. Germany and Babylon have founded new cities, cutting off the route from Korea to Iro.
Germany want silly money for a ROP but Babylon will take 28gpt; Considering the money that we are taking from Iroquois, I think it's a good investment.
Make ROP with Babylon;
Destroy Chondote, liberating 1702g (17-1);
Destroy Kiohero liberating 1150g (18-1);
Seoul> Flak > Flak;
IBT:

Byz/ Germany MA Iroquois;
MA with Germany against Iroquios expires; I do not renew.
I figure since we've finished RR we don't need our Iron any more, so:

Byz/ Celts Peace;

1435 AD:

Seoul> Flak > Flak;
Rojo> Bomber > Bomber
Pyong> Bomber > Bomber;
Nampo> Bomber > Bomber;
Advance on Oil Springs;

IBT:

Renegotiate luxury deal wuth Bismark; he gives Incense + 18gpt for Gems.

Celts MA Russia against us;

1440 AD:

Seoul> Flak > Bomber;
Rojo build changed to Wall St.(3)
Sell RP to Byz for 450g + 16gpt

IBT:

Nada:

1445 AD:

Destroy Oil Springs (22-1) liberating 2414g.
Nampo> Bomber > Bomber;
Pyong > Bomber > Bomber;

IBT:

Lose our Ivory;

1450 AD:

Seoul > Bomber > Bomber
BB > Bomber > Bomber
Try to plant Spy on Iroquois - again he is caught and killed.
And then, the very last action of the set:

So the situation now is that we are behind Iro MT, behind Amphibious WF to Germany, up everyone else.

For future reference, I re-loaded to before the Oil deal once I'd finished and didn't make the deal until we had Flight/ Mass Production. The price went up to 65gpt.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/GOZ_12_1450_AD.SAV

 

[zerksees]

Whomp - don't forget the pollution factor. We will need a bunch of slaves to clean up pollution quickly. I agree we may be able to join some dead civ slave workers to our cities to speed growth. I'll look into it on my turn set.

Also protecting from the UN vote by building it would be smart at this time.

Again nice work there Bucephalus. It is so nice of the Iroquois to fund us this way. I think we keep going until they are dead or out of money - which could be soon. Do we have any outstanding MA vs the Iroquois? Or maybe they will give us a nice chunk of their remaining gold for a peace treay?

Maybe we want to keep the Germans as our friends until we find a good way to stop them from building the ship. A ridiculous price for ROP might be worth it to wreck their ship by an ROP violation that results in the wrecking of their capital when they are at 9 components.

It might be a couple days before I can really get to work on this.

 

[Whomp]

Very nice Buce!

Agreed on the slaves Zerksees. Slaves still have a lot of work to do with pollution, airfields and colonies. It's only the excess dead civs slaves that I would consider.

I'd prefer to do this as clean as possible. ROP abuse is not how I'd like to win this thing. If it means taking out the Germans then we should take them out. They are only up amphibious so I think our chances of doing this are very good. Checking our potential research rate will give us an idea whether we can do some self research.

What needs to be considered is our consistent pre builds once we hit the MA. This will be the key to a faster launch than the AI has the capability to do. It also means we need to manage who controls the world's oil, aluminum and uranium supplies.

Take your time Zerksees. I will look at the save and post some thoughts.

 

[zerksees]

Whomp - I obviously have less concern about style at the end (we are on a 5CC deity game -isn't that enough of a handicap?), but certainly any ROP violations can be at the bottom of our list of options (i.e. absolute last resort).

If we are going after Germany, I suspect we should get at it soon and clear out a buffer zone so their bombers can't wreck all our infrastructure. I am not sure I am advocating this yet, but we should discuss it here very soon as we are nearing the build of Apollo program.

Managing uranium and or aluminum will be a much more interesting angle. Also sabotage could be an option.