Goz-12 - 5CC - Large map - Space Race

A bold plan indeed. Maybe a 'steal' is the best option, because if all goes to plan we'll have our money back, and then some.

And if it succeeds it's a bonus, and you'll still have the 'boot' option.
 
I am fairly certain the army was 100 shields. It cut the hospital from 6 turns to 1 turn. We are in the low 20's on spt in Nampo IIRC. I was going to maximize food after that but could not go all food as the army did not completely fill the shield bin. Swordsmen are not worth that many shields - so I am not sure if we got credit for the army and contents.

I am guessing the Germans are gassed too but the front is a little too wide for my liking at the present and our coal and furs are in the neutral zone near their border. We'll take them on once we have artillery and infantry, and we don't need that coal anymore.

I'll probably leave 6-8 Hwachas back for defense bombard with some cavs and rifles. The rest are going on the offensive - if I can get them to DOW of course. I might consider mobilizing as a contingency if they surprise us.

I can't believe it took me so long to figure this out. :dunno:
 
OK I should be looking at investing and securing my financial future, but I am playing Civ instead!

Turn 2 continued:

The iron under the Russian city is up for grabs. I land a cav on it and am moving a worker there to make a colony. There is gold to be made selling that iron. The roads are clooged with Germans and Babylon city is in the way.

Of the AI, only Byzantine and Babylon bold enough to be in republic, America and Hittites are in monarchy, and the rest are in fascism.

Overnight introspection makes me think we need to stir the pot a little. Need to get stray units home first. Part of my concern is that at +190 gpt, it will take 14 or so turns to get enough gold to steal a tech. This is not acceptable. We cannot afford the luxury of waiting for this, unless we want to emulate the Hittites.

IBT:
Pyong: cav -> police station
BB: cav -> hwacha
Nampo: hosp -> cav

Turn 3: 1315 AD
Workers busy adding railroads, and start on some other road projects. We need more workers atm.
Been fishing for trades but no deals. Slowly the AI are reaching tech parity and we may run out of two-fer trade chances soon

We have 12 rifle, 23 cav, 27 Hwacha, 5 med inf and 1 Lil Whomper.

IBT:
Babs and Celts make peace
Seoul: rifle -> battlefield medicine (our people want to build it – maybe we should!)

Turn 4: 1320 AD
Sell gems to Iroquois for 25 gpt
Buy wines from Aztecs for 13 gpt

IBT:
Hittite and Russia make peace
BB: Hwacha -> Hwacha

Turn 5: 1325 AD
Have a revelation while looking at mapstat. Iroquois have like 80,000 gold, meaning each city is probably worth 1500-2500 gold. I want to have a war with them and get some of that gold. Whomp and Bucephalus give me the green light. I start pulling in some stray units – giving up on the extra iron colony for now. Plan a war in 2 when the army is done.

IBT
Russia and Germany make peace. What is with the love fest anyway?
Hiawatha comes knocking. He wants 100 gold and TM. We tell him “that’s it goodbye” and he DOWs us. Start you war today with no waiting! Saves me the debate about stealing or remove or declare. Bucephalus is right – as I am always starting these wars.

We have workers on the border, but suffer no attacks from the Iroquois after their outrageous demand. I hate these paper tiger AI.

Turn 6: 1330 AD

Take an advance on our future booty and buy Germany in to war for 47 gpt. Jolly good fun.
Change Pyong and Seoul to build rifles
Make moves to retrieve displaced units.
I am hesitant to put anything in play this turn because I am not sure what the Iroquois will bring. Bolster up defense over workers on the border.

IBT
“Russians and Aztecs MA vs. Iroquois” says our smiling foreign advisor
Germans whack two Iro settler pairs – one was in our land and I should have taken it!
Russia offers MPP – right! We decline
Hittites DOW Germany
Lose a rifle and a worker, defeat one cav [1-1,-1]
Seoul and Pyong riot – I forgot to MM. Apparently our conflict cut off some lux I forgot about. Was able to MM Rojo to avoid and the other two were OK. How did I get off warlord level anyway?
Rojo: army -> cav
BB: hwacha -> battlefield medicine
Nampo: cav -> court
The people love zerksees, and offer to expand the palace – add pillars up front

Turn 7: 1335 AD
Sell gems to Germany collecting dyes, incense and 20 gpt. Re-MM the cities
Road is done. Move units in place to attack Novosibirsk. A rifle, our new cav army and a few other cavs participate.
The Hittites were paid off by Germany – so we sell them invention and collect 418 gold.
We have enough gold, so I try a careful steal on Russia. It fails, and she DOW on us. Oops, 2748 gold down the toilet. Oops we are out of our gpt payments and now show +297 gpt. She is not pleased and stupid to boot.

IBT
Byzantines and Iroquois sign embargo against us.
Seoul: rifle -> rifle
Pyong: rifle -> rifle

Turn 8: 1340 AD
First assault: Fire all Hwachas, redlining 3 inf and killing one. Elite med inf loses, cav army takes two inf, and a vet cav finishes the last one. Novosibirsk (was size 13) is razed, netting 2933 gold! Also we 6 get slave workers [5-2,+5] That was easy.

Germans are blocking my road so I can’t reinforce. Army is down to 6 HP, hope it holds up.

Elite cav takes down Russian rifle/settler pair. [6-2,+7]

Take the other stack of Hwachas with some rifles and cavs to the next border city - Tver.

America is down to one city. Trade electricity and get 1gold, music theory and navigation. They can’t really trade it and the two optionals clean up the mapstat screen

Decide to steal scientific method. Put embassy in Babylon for 179 gold. Try a safe steal, and it works!
Try to deal sci meth to Celts for industrialization – no deal. We don’t have enough gold to throw in but we are close.

Change Rojo to build TOE – done in 23

IBT
No attacks from Iroquois or Russia

Turn 9: 1345 AD
Celts sell us industrialization for sci method and 957 gold. We have 2 gold left – every coin counts.
Sell sci method to Byz for 23 gpt and 252 gold.

Launch our mini-Hwacha assault, then start with cavs. Defeat 2 infantry and a conscript rifle costing two cavs. We also got a leader! The city of Tver fell netting 5 workers and 2197 gold! [9-4,+12]

Use the great leader to rush a factory in Rojo. I want to shorten the time to build TOE. Also use some workers to improve hill tiles near there to speed up production.

Move bigger stack into place by Krasnoyarsk

IBT
Babs and Germany MA vs Iro
Aztec and Russia MA vs Byz
Lost a cav to Russian rifle [9-5,+12]
Byz DOW Germany
Iro and Hittites MA against us.
Rojo: Factory -> TOE

Turn 10: 1350 AD
Launch Hwachas, then defeat 3 inf and a cav with no losses, two arty inside autodisband and the city of Krasnoyarsk is razed. We collect 2106 gold and 5 more workers [13-5,+17].

I want to try another steal – this time from Aztecs. We have over 4800 gold atm. There is some tech disparity – we could steal atomic theory and sell it to Celts and Babs for repl parts, the corp, whatever we can get. Should I leave that for the next player?

I plan to post the save tonight.
 
I'd feel so much better if we were doing this through spies rather than the embassy because iirc we can steal from enemies with a spy in that country. Right now, the Aztecs are allies and having them declare on us is not such a big deal however if they were to bring in the Germans it's a huge deal. Can we work on pounding the Iroquois for gold then work on getting the intel agency up for steals? Even immediate steals with regular spies (republic) are nearly as effective as safe steals through the embassy.
From Oystein's article.
Chance of succeding in %:

  • Immediate Carefully Safely
  • Embassy 32 44 52
  • Regular spy 48 60 68
  • Veteran spy 56 68 76
 
Excellent point Whomp. I guess I don't play this game enough and I miss the very important fine points like this. However, IIRC we must get espionage (or something?) before we can build the intelligence agency. I don't see it on our list of items to build atm.

Industrialization was needed before we could get espionage. Could it be that no AI has espionage yet? I'll have to check.

Pounding the Iroquois is definitely on the menu. I'll pass it to you tonight as is and you can decide what is best.

Off this topic, but BTW none of the AI are building ToE presently.
 
I'd be stunned if no one has espionage and would be a better steal right now with one of the meek. That ToE thing is very mysterious to me.
 
OK All the big players have espionage. Of the meek, I would say Celts could be a target. Russia may have it too but since we are at war I can't tell. The odds are a lot better with intelligence agency, but if you succeed stealing atomic theory then you could trade for the corp and esp.

If you choose to steal esp, you could switch Nampo to IA to get a head start.

The Hwacha stack is pretty safe from Iro under 3-4 rifles. The army has been sitting one turn and should be full strength on your turn 1. There are a few cavs that have not moved yet this turn if you want to do something with them. there is a stack about 8 high of German infantry in Iro territory just south out of view of our hwacha stack.

I have been pillaging tiles in the free zone with cavs, trying to reduce travel there.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/27707/goz12_1350AD.SAV
 
Oh sorry. I'm playing today. I'll be back soon.
 
lurker's comment: I just completed reading all pages of this SG, and I want to say that it's very good game, maybe even better then the last one. I wish good luck to all :goodjob:
Too bad that I was offline more then half of year, RL have eaten my time and I missed many interest things :scan:
 
Just a quick update. It's still a rout and did make the steal on the Aztecs. Good thing because they MA'd against us the next turn. :devil: I actually did shift ToE to a coal plant. :D Great minds think alike. I also have factories going in the other cities except the capital which has the intel agency.
 
Pre Turn: Hmm...to steal or not to steal. We really need espionage bad but if we get the Aztecs angry however they're south of the Iroquois. If I steal I'll need to immediately bring the Germans into the fight to keep them off us. Strange bedfollows.
Well...audacious is what we need. Safely steal for 4014g and...
goz1stealys6.jpg


Take Atomic theory and start trading around.
Byz are down industrial and atomic with 417g. Up only demo and fasc. They won't give gpt.
Babs are down atom and 0g. They'll give 7gpt, corp, espionage, ivory and WM.
Celts are down atom and 1136g.

Start with Babs since they have techs but no gold. Get corp (to open up tree), espionage, ivory, 7gpt and WM for atomic.
Babs have steel, Germans steel and refining, Aztecs steel, refining and electronics.
Get RP (no more hwachas but this will improve our speed, reveals rubber, arty and infantry), 2 new slaves, 704g and TM from the Celts. We have rubber near Nampo!
Get 417g, WM for industrialization from Byz.

Switch Seoul to intel agency in 10, Nampo, Pyong and Bouncing Bucket to factories and Rojo to a coal plant. It will actually finish around the same time. Upgrade 4 rifles to infantry for 120g. Our two new workers help a lot by freeing up quite a few by finishing projects. MM for some extra gold.

IT Hits and Americans MA vs. us. Americans and Germans MA vs. Iroquois. Aztecs and Russians MA vs. us. Aztecs and Iroquois make peace.

1355 Iroquois are willing to make peace. They've gathered 11 slaves. Get the Germans to MA vs. the Aztecs. Buy them in for 21gpt, 13g and WM. Upgrade a few hwachas to arty. These will pay off quickly since they have 2 tile shooting range. Workers get three hills working on Rojo and knock off some turns on coal plant. Short rush infantry for 56g to factory in Pyong and knock off a turn. Move the army to Gandasetigon with some cavs. Check around and see a Iroquois settler pair bomb it and get a couple slaves. Move some other hwachas towards Gandasetigon. Upgrade 4 more rifles for 120g and 3 hwachs to arty for 360g.

IT Babs and Hits make peace. See a few cavs get blown away trying to take Gandasetigon. Notice about 3 infantry there.
1360 Move the hwachas next Gandasetigon and some others towards Goilgouen or Ganogeh. Arty moves into position. Knock another turn off Boucing Buckets factory.

IT See the Iroquois plant another city near us. I wonder if that will count for big bucks if we raze.
1365 At Gandasetigon bombard 3 infantry two yellow and one red. Our army redlines but takes both yellows. A vet cav finishes, we raze and get 2021g and 4 slaves.

IT Byz and Cincinati (only US city) embargo us. Well so much for that Germany and Americans MA vs. Byz :crazyeye:
Russia and Celts MA vs. Hits. Lots of Byz and German units at the new Iroquois city Kawauka.
1370 Our arty comes in handy knocking the two infantry at Kawauka to yellow and red. Kill both with cavs and reveal a cav which is also killed and we net another 1358g. Upgrade 6 more arty. I think the combo of arty redlining and hwachas lethal could be ugly.

IT Babs and Americans MA vs. Byz. Americans and Germans MA vs. Celts. Lots of settlers running around empty spaces. I'll need to move quick.
1375 Bombard 3 infantry at Golgouen. Yellow two and redline one. Army is healed and kills the first. Retreat 3 vets and 1 cav is killed. The last two vets are flawless and it garners another 1988g. Lethal bombard a Iroquois cav so I can get through on rails because there's plenty of traffic along the Iroquois railnet. Take some time thinking about where to go next. Hmm..
I end up moving some units to a mountain and the stack that just hit Golgouen will meet them on the same turn. Rush factories in Pyong 188g and Nampo 168g. Dancing Bucket will finish too. Upgrade 3 MI to Guerillas for 450g so I can use some infantry near the front. We still have 6815g +357gpt.

IT Russians declare on Germans. Price of our iron drops from 32gpt to 31gpt for the Celts.
1380 Start infantry in Nanpo and Pyong and a Coal plant in Bouncing Bucket. Samara, Russia will be getting some attention so I take it will a cav vs. guerilla for 43g and autoraze. Move some units around.

I'm not sure exactly where I took this picture but I thought it was appropriate. :devil:
goz2diplopicrw1.jpg

IT Babs and Americans MA vs. Celts. Russians and Babs make peace. Put in a coach house in for the kids at the palace.

1385 Arty reveals 4 infantry in Ganogeh. I'll wait till next turn when the hwachas are there so I can save my unit strength for the next city.

IT Finally...the Aztecs eliminate the Americans. The Russians drop off a lone guerilla on our shores. Pyong finishes infantry and starts a coal plant. Expand with another coach house.
1390 Bombard Ganogeh and the arty does a number on the place but our hwachas go 1 for 16. There's 4 units so it's time to take it. Army struggles losing 10 hps but takes a 2hp infantry. We take two more infantry, lose a infantry attacking a cav, Santa gets a MGL, and finish against a redlined infantry and get 2720g plus 7 new slaves. Send the MGL home and switch the coal plant at Pyong to Battlefield Medicine and rush it.

goz3santawp2.jpg


Take the invading guerilla and get Mrs. Claus.

goz4mrsclausce7.jpg


We're two turns for getting the intel agency. Dump 106 shields in the capital by finishing a factory and I'll rush the intel agency next turn since it would finish in two anyhow.

IT Not much. Battlefield Medicine comes in and start coal plant, factory at Seoul and start coal plant, infantry at Nampo and start intel agency.
1395 Rush the intel agengy at Nampo. Bombard Lindum and reveal 4 infantry. Our hwachas are lame again missing on 7 of 8. I'm going to upgrade some hwachas to arty. Upgrade 10 them. This should be enough arty to do damage next turn.

IT Nothing. Bouncing Bucket finishes its coal plant and starts a stock exchange, intel agengy in Nampo starts a coal plant.
1400 Redline all the infantry with arty but all the hwachas miss trying to lethal bombard them. Send the army in first and take 3 redlined infantry but almost lose it again going 3/14 with a promo at the end. Take Lindum with an elite and get 2570g and along with a new arty and 8 slaves. Move one of the slaves and two infantry on top of a rubber resource that became available.

Summary
We're in good shape with 12383g and 305gpt.
We're down refining, steel and electronics to Germany, Aztecs and Iroquois.
We're down steel to Babs. Even or ahead of everyone else (x useless techs)

We're two turns from ToE and we can plant agents against anyone and steal whenever we're ready. I'm not sure if the odds of getting caught are greater when you're at war. If we fail to plant a spy we need to wait four turns before we have the same odds of success planting one. Each turn the flag on planting is reduced so don't try it again on the same turn.

We still have six turns left on our MA vs. Iroquois with the Germans and eleven more turns with the them against the Aztecs. The Russians will make peace for all their gold if we want.

I haven't built a lot of units since we seem to be pretty healthy on that front assuming the Germans stay happy. Feel free to change if you need to. I've left a few units unmoved to give you an idea where they are.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year everyone!
 

Attachments

Excellent work. I think we are about done giving in to demands from anyone.

We should plant spies with the non-meek so we know what we are up against. I might hold off a little while on planting a spy with Germany.

Too bad the Hwachas are not doing so well against the better units. Maybe we should keep 15-20 (or whatever is left) to use on any invasions - I bet they work better on units in the open.

:xmastree:

Where to go from here? In the short term we should keep after the Iroquois until the MA is over then look at making peace for some substantial settlement.

But then what - should we try to clear out all these AI, or just try to beat them to launching the ship? I have been working on the assumption we would cut them down - conquest style, then leave one survivor and go launch or ship.

bucephalus you are up
 
You're right Zerksees. The hwachas were great in the open field but couldn't hit anything inside cities.

I think we should continue pounding on the Iroquois. They're almost good for 2500g every few turns. They are our research. :devil:

The thing to keep in mind with the Germans is they are fighting everyone but us and the Babs right now. I think we need to plant on all the big guys. The Germans need to be knocked down a notch at some point too. The risk of doing it is we'll lose our coal and furs.

I didn't see any tanks or bombers so that's good.
 
Nicely done, Whomp. :thumbsup:

I've got my early-morning head on, but my immediate attention is drawn to the problem with the ToE; I say 'problem' because as things stand our free techs will be already in the public domain.

I'm thinking that to get optimum benefit from the ToE we need to steal to parity; Electronics goes nowhere, but if we can steal Refining and Steel, we might get Combustion and Flight or Mass production as monopolies.
 
Sounds like a good idea Bucephalus. With 12000+ gold on hand and the Iroquois giving out all this free money with each city, you should be able to get there. Since the Babs have refining, maybe you can steal something else and make some good trades.

As fara as I'm concerned we can keep after the Iro until war weariness gets to the 40% range.

Whomp - by the time we attack Germany we will have all our rails in place and won't need the coal. Worst case we go after Babylon and get that coal near the border. Furs - well we can trade for a lux somewhere. I suppose this should wait until we are done with Iroquois.
 
Couple of questions:

If we fail to plant a spy, do we still have to wait the 4 turns before we could attempt an embassy steal, or does the '4 turn rule' only apply to spy planting?

Only Germany has Refining. We could steal Steel from Babylon, but we presumably we don't want to upset Bismark yet. How does this affect the ToE gambit?
 
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