Goz-12 - 5CC - Large map - Space Race
- Thread starter gozpel
- Start date
plarq
Crazy forever
lurker's comment: Ease up man! You're turning it into a Space series style SG!
zerksees
in remission
For whatever reason we are without our leader, so that has undoubtedly slowed this game. We have waited long enough and I think now we should move forward. I can hope the pace will be a little faster than the Space games from here on in.plarq said:
Whomp I made 3 techs in 10 turns, let's see if you can match or beat that.
I hope the others still want to continue.
plarq
Crazy forever
lurker's comment: I suggest Whomp or zerksees as leader of this SG
I probably will join after two weeks, after finishing up some tests.
I probably will join after two weeks, after finishing up some tests.
IT nada. Nampo finishes its cath and starts a bank.
560 AD workers work.
IT France and Aztecs MA vs. Russia and Hittites.
Bouncing Bucket finishes cath and starts a bank for Wall St.
570 AD Couple more banks after this turn. Think about signing against Hittites since they're not even seen on the map but can't find anything compelling to do it.
IT
Hittites and Iroquois (who are huge) MA vs Russia. We lose our dyes but renegiate it by paying the same 9gpt along with an additional 3g. Pyong and Rojo finish their banks and start unis. Babs start Newts.
580 AD Gpt cranks up from 20's to 56gpt. Hittites are ancient compared to us but since they were just paid to start a war against Russia I take their 300g for feud so he'll build units. I don't want to have tributes so short rush a LB at Nampo for 72g reducing the bank build by 2 (11 now), pick up two French workers from the french for 223g, and since theAztecs are gigantic I establish a embassy for 117g.
That leaves us 14g in the bank.
IT Hittites coming for monotheism. Cave since they are a non factor and may actually help trading. Celts finally get in the battle as they MA with the Aztecs against the Russians. Babs MA with Iroquois vs. Byz. England MA with Iroquois vs.America. Hannover finishes Newts.
590 Short rush a LB for 64g in Bouncing and switch back to bank due in 10. We'll have all our banks now in 10. Our deal for gems and 49gpt ends with France next turn. We also are have gems coming from America. Try to renegotiate but the deal is too high. I do a deal with the Babs for 11gpt and 8g. We may need that extra gem next turn.
IT Byz ask for an audience. They want peace but our MA is still rolling. Germany signs a MA with the Iroquois vs. America. Iroquois and France MA vs. Hittites.
600 Trade our TM, gems, 54g and 59gpt for powder with the Germans since they're annoyed and most of the other big guys are polite. We don't have salt.
The English have two sources close to our borders though.
IT Iroquois and Germans MA vs. Celts and Hittites. Babs and Iroquois sign a MPP. Babs and Iroquois MA vs. Celts and Hittites. Iroquois declare on the French. America and Russia make peace. Bank finishes in Seoul and start a uni.
610 AD nothing
IT nothing. Wow.
620 Short rush a LB in the capital and get uni in 3.
IT Aztecs ask for a MA vs. Hits. Denied. Babs declare on Russians. Americans make peace with France.
630 Trade for spices with Celts for 11gpt and 62g.
IT Celts and Aztecs MA vs. America. Aztecs and Celts MA vs. Iroquois. oh my. Babs and Iroquois MA vs. Aztecs.
640 Nada.
IT Iroquois and Russia peace.
650 Rush the uni in Pyong since it's at a odd number..
Summary
Not having salt is a problem. We may have to join a war to get it from the English. We're nearly finished with our builds. Buchets for upgrades?
560 AD workers work.
IT France and Aztecs MA vs. Russia and Hittites.
Bouncing Bucket finishes cath and starts a bank for Wall St.
570 AD Couple more banks after this turn. Think about signing against Hittites since they're not even seen on the map but can't find anything compelling to do it.
IT
Hittites and Iroquois (who are huge) MA vs Russia. We lose our dyes but renegiate it by paying the same 9gpt along with an additional 3g. Pyong and Rojo finish their banks and start unis. Babs start Newts. 580 AD Gpt cranks up from 20's to 56gpt. Hittites are ancient compared to us but since they were just paid to start a war against Russia I take their 300g for feud so he'll build units. I don't want to have tributes so short rush a LB at Nampo for 72g reducing the bank build by 2 (11 now), pick up two French workers from the french for 223g, and since theAztecs are gigantic I establish a embassy for 117g.
That leaves us 14g in the bank.
IT Hittites coming for monotheism. Cave since they are a non factor and may actually help trading. Celts finally get in the battle as they MA with the Aztecs against the Russians. Babs MA with Iroquois vs. Byz. England MA with Iroquois vs.America. Hannover finishes Newts.
590 Short rush a LB for 64g in Bouncing and switch back to bank due in 10. We'll have all our banks now in 10. Our deal for gems and 49gpt ends with France next turn. We also are have gems coming from America. Try to renegotiate but the deal is too high. I do a deal with the Babs for 11gpt and 8g. We may need that extra gem next turn.
IT Byz ask for an audience. They want peace but our MA is still rolling. Germany signs a MA with the Iroquois vs. America. Iroquois and France MA vs. Hittites.
600 Trade our TM, gems, 54g and 59gpt for powder with the Germans since they're annoyed and most of the other big guys are polite. We don't have salt.
The English have two sources close to our borders though.IT Iroquois and Germans MA vs. Celts and Hittites. Babs and Iroquois sign a MPP. Babs and Iroquois MA vs. Celts and Hittites. Iroquois declare on the French. America and Russia make peace. Bank finishes in Seoul and start a uni.
610 AD nothing
IT nothing. Wow.
620 Short rush a LB in the capital and get uni in 3.
IT Aztecs ask for a MA vs. Hits. Denied. Babs declare on Russians. Americans make peace with France.
630 Trade for spices with Celts for 11gpt and 62g.
IT Celts and Aztecs MA vs. America. Aztecs and Celts MA vs. Iroquois. oh my. Babs and Iroquois MA vs. Aztecs.
640 Nada.
IT Iroquois and Russia peace.
650 Rush the uni in Pyong since it's at a odd number..
Summary
Not having salt is a problem. We may have to join a war to get it from the English. We're nearly finished with our builds. Buchets for upgrades?
zerksees
in remission
Thanks Whomp looks good.
We may have to take a chance and build up cash so we can buy techs. I need to look at the save before I have any more to say. [edit]
Andronicus or Pentium - give us a "got it" and take a turn.
We may have to take a chance and build up cash so we can buy techs. I need to look at the save before I have any more to say. [edit]
Andronicus or Pentium - give us a "got it" and take a turn.
I think I messed up on research. I just realized I didn't set research after we learned gunpowder and it defaulted to Astro. We only had a few turns in so anyone who'd like to change it please do.
zerksees
in remission
Mr Whomp,
Minor point there on research - good to get a "heads up" on it. We may change it on the next turnset.
Bucephalus has decided to join us on this adventure and will play the next turnset. In the next couple days I am going to look at the save and put up some suggestions and maybe a plan. Any input would be appreciated.
Minor point there on research - good to get a "heads up" on it. We may change it on the next turnset.
Bucephalus has decided to join us on this adventure and will play the next turnset. In the next couple days I am going to look at the save and put up some suggestions and maybe a plan. Any input would be appreciated.
Phaedo
Emperor
lurker's comment: Spamming to subscribe
zerksees
in remission
For Bucephalus and any other future new team members:
This game is to be won by a space race, but first we have to get there. This is going to require some good diplomacy and trading. From my experience this will require more than checking F4 every turn. Some general tactics:
1) Keep trading rep intact. This means we are not going to break any per turn deals in the middle. Be careful deals do not get broken by lost trade routes, which include cut roads or loss of harbor. I doubt we will lose our harbor but if our trading partner does the deal is just as dead.
2) Give in to AI demands for quite a while. With 5 cities, we are small and must grovel in the dust. This can be irritating when giving in, but any demand rejection must be thought through very carefully. Also this means if we have something of value, we had better be on top of it and trade it away right away before someone bullies us out of it. There should be a "give in" and "do not give in" list of AI at the start of each turnset.
3) Creative trading. We will trade everything we can. Because we are 5CC, we can buy lux for less than we can sell them for, so investigate selling our lux and buying an AI lux to gain gold. At the present it seems we can sell military alliances for things. Just choose weak AI as the target and get as much as you can.
We also have to keep up in tech. At the moment we are behind, but we are going to catch up by finding a tech disparity between the AIs that will help us trade our way back. Eventually a second tier of AI will appear (this means the top group is at one level of tech and the second is further back). Once we catch the second tier there will be a giant leapfrog as we buy and sell our way back. In the meantime we need to maximize gold to buy techs as fast as we can. When picking the next tech, either find a tech that will help us make more gold, has a good probability to allow us to find the disparity in techs between the AI, or reach some strategic point.
We may also employ some direct tech steals right after signing big GPT deals, in hopes of getting a DOW and getting out of the gpt payments.
4) I envision winning the space race by completing the conquest first all except one AI one city, then building the ship. If this does not pan out, there are plenty of other ways to do it. To me it is too early to tell which may need employed - be it sabotage, ROP rape, resource denial to keep an AI from launching.
5) I am hopeful the AI will get bogged down fighting each other, and therefore drain each other of units and slow the tech pace.
6) The self imposed limit is 5 cities, and we shall own no more than 5. This means razing cities we take.
7) General creativity. There may be unique situations that we can capitalize on - be it geography, trading or whatever. The key is to see them and utilize them to our advantage. This is not something that can be easily described or taught
For the present situation here are some comments:
As usual Whomp is on top of the trading situation. I tried to find something to buy or trade to allow us to buy a tech but could not find anything. I could get a small fee from the Germans (IIRC) for an MA against Hittites but not enough to secure a trade. I encourage you to try it too.
The good news is that on the first turn two trade deals are ending giving us another 17 gpt and iron to sell. Hopefully this will be enough we can make the trade. See if you can get a required tech in exchange for the iron. The Aztecs are selling us wines. It would be helpful to renew that but if not the Americans have gems we can buy for 110 gold and 9 gpt
On turn 4 we have another trade deal ending that will give us another iron and 29 gpt to deal. With luck this will be enough to get another tech. If we have to sit on the iron a few turns build a few pikes and some medieval infantry.
On turn 7 (or 8?) our MA with France vs. Byzantines is up. As soon as it is over start negotiating with Byzantines to see if you can get some techs.
I know it is dangerous to keep gold sitting around but it might be worth the chance to accumulate gold for a few turns to help improve our chances to buy. If you are concerned about this, turn up the science rate since we have some universities. Buying a half-finished tech is usually cheaper than buying one we have not started yet.
With excess capacity in cities we don’t have any improvements to build, we should build trebuchets – I would say we want at least a dozen. Eventually we will want to acquire the horses in the NE from the Russians, and the saltpeter to the west from the English. Each of these will fall to us with border expansions if we raze the cities. I lean toward going after Russia first since they are at war quite a bit, though it will probably not be a good idea to do so in the next 10 turns.
Bouncing Bucket can use some workers to improve one of the mountains and get the shield count up. Furthermore we may want to irrigate one of the grassland tiles to get the population growing up to size 12.
Bucephalus, see if you can acquire three techs this turnset – I prefer mandatory techs but optionals with trading value or strategic value would be OK. Each time you acquire a tech, watch closely for a disparity in techs between the AIs. If you find one try to acquire one of the techs in dipsairy, since as you know it is way easier to trade tech for tech than pay gold for all of them. Also, if you want help mid-turn just post a save and I will look at it.
Edit: our do not give in to demands list:
Hittites, Byzantines, America.
Now if they are demanding world map and 20 gold I would probably give it anyway, but I would not give up substantial sums of money.
If there are any concerns with this strategy please speak up.
Good luck.
This game is to be won by a space race, but first we have to get there. This is going to require some good diplomacy and trading. From my experience this will require more than checking F4 every turn. Some general tactics:
1) Keep trading rep intact. This means we are not going to break any per turn deals in the middle. Be careful deals do not get broken by lost trade routes, which include cut roads or loss of harbor. I doubt we will lose our harbor but if our trading partner does the deal is just as dead.
2) Give in to AI demands for quite a while. With 5 cities, we are small and must grovel in the dust. This can be irritating when giving in, but any demand rejection must be thought through very carefully. Also this means if we have something of value, we had better be on top of it and trade it away right away before someone bullies us out of it. There should be a "give in" and "do not give in" list of AI at the start of each turnset.
3) Creative trading. We will trade everything we can. Because we are 5CC, we can buy lux for less than we can sell them for, so investigate selling our lux and buying an AI lux to gain gold. At the present it seems we can sell military alliances for things. Just choose weak AI as the target and get as much as you can.
We also have to keep up in tech. At the moment we are behind, but we are going to catch up by finding a tech disparity between the AIs that will help us trade our way back. Eventually a second tier of AI will appear (this means the top group is at one level of tech and the second is further back). Once we catch the second tier there will be a giant leapfrog as we buy and sell our way back. In the meantime we need to maximize gold to buy techs as fast as we can. When picking the next tech, either find a tech that will help us make more gold, has a good probability to allow us to find the disparity in techs between the AI, or reach some strategic point.
We may also employ some direct tech steals right after signing big GPT deals, in hopes of getting a DOW and getting out of the gpt payments.
4) I envision winning the space race by completing the conquest first all except one AI one city, then building the ship. If this does not pan out, there are plenty of other ways to do it. To me it is too early to tell which may need employed - be it sabotage, ROP rape, resource denial to keep an AI from launching.
5) I am hopeful the AI will get bogged down fighting each other, and therefore drain each other of units and slow the tech pace.
6) The self imposed limit is 5 cities, and we shall own no more than 5. This means razing cities we take.
7) General creativity. There may be unique situations that we can capitalize on - be it geography, trading or whatever. The key is to see them and utilize them to our advantage. This is not something that can be easily described or taught
For the present situation here are some comments:
As usual Whomp is on top of the trading situation. I tried to find something to buy or trade to allow us to buy a tech but could not find anything. I could get a small fee from the Germans (IIRC) for an MA against Hittites but not enough to secure a trade. I encourage you to try it too.
The good news is that on the first turn two trade deals are ending giving us another 17 gpt and iron to sell. Hopefully this will be enough we can make the trade. See if you can get a required tech in exchange for the iron. The Aztecs are selling us wines. It would be helpful to renew that but if not the Americans have gems we can buy for 110 gold and 9 gpt
On turn 4 we have another trade deal ending that will give us another iron and 29 gpt to deal. With luck this will be enough to get another tech. If we have to sit on the iron a few turns build a few pikes and some medieval infantry.
On turn 7 (or 8?) our MA with France vs. Byzantines is up. As soon as it is over start negotiating with Byzantines to see if you can get some techs.
I know it is dangerous to keep gold sitting around but it might be worth the chance to accumulate gold for a few turns to help improve our chances to buy. If you are concerned about this, turn up the science rate since we have some universities. Buying a half-finished tech is usually cheaper than buying one we have not started yet.
With excess capacity in cities we don’t have any improvements to build, we should build trebuchets – I would say we want at least a dozen. Eventually we will want to acquire the horses in the NE from the Russians, and the saltpeter to the west from the English. Each of these will fall to us with border expansions if we raze the cities. I lean toward going after Russia first since they are at war quite a bit, though it will probably not be a good idea to do so in the next 10 turns.
Bouncing Bucket can use some workers to improve one of the mountains and get the shield count up. Furthermore we may want to irrigate one of the grassland tiles to get the population growing up to size 12.
Bucephalus, see if you can acquire three techs this turnset – I prefer mandatory techs but optionals with trading value or strategic value would be OK. Each time you acquire a tech, watch closely for a disparity in techs between the AIs. If you find one try to acquire one of the techs in dipsairy, since as you know it is way easier to trade tech for tech than pay gold for all of them. Also, if you want help mid-turn just post a save and I will look at it.
Edit: our do not give in to demands list:
Hittites, Byzantines, America.
Now if they are demanding world map and 20 gold I would probably give it anyway, but I would not give up substantial sums of money.
If there are any concerns with this strategy please speak up.
Good luck.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
OK, I'll try and play tonight, if I can.
In the meantime, I'm fairly sure that I will have questions. One that immediately springs to mind is: What do you want to change our research to? And is it the 'lone scientist' approach?
Edit: Scratch that; I've re-read your post, and it's clearer now.
When we get our Iron back, would it be appropriate to upgrade a few vet swords before I trade it away again?
Edit: Scratch that; I've re-read your post, and it's clearer now.
When we get our Iron back, would it be appropriate to upgrade a few vet swords before I trade it away again?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I'm having trouble uploading the save, so I'll post it with a turnlog in the morning.
Summary:
I managed to pick-up just the two techs, Chemistry and Metallurgy; the net 57 gpt we are currently generating is not enough to buy anything else, even with throwing in a Peace treaty to Byzantine, so I've been putting beakers in to MT. We should be able to buy it in 5 turns, when we get back 59gpt & Gems from Germany; a few civs still don't have it, so it could present a trading opportunity.
We've got a big-ish stack of Russians uncomfortably close to Bouncing Bucket; it looks like they are heading for England, but I'm paranoid about the Gems, so I've given them a ROP to speed them through. I hope that wasn't a bad decision.
Summary:
I managed to pick-up just the two techs, Chemistry and Metallurgy; the net 57 gpt we are currently generating is not enough to buy anything else, even with throwing in a Peace treaty to Byzantine, so I've been putting beakers in to MT. We should be able to buy it in 5 turns, when we get back 59gpt & Gems from Germany; a few civs still don't have it, so it could present a trading opportunity.
We've got a big-ish stack of Russians uncomfortably close to Bouncing Bucket; it looks like they are heading for England, but I'm paranoid about the Gems, so I've given them a ROP to speed them through. I hope that wasn't a bad decision.
zerksees
in remission
Well I can't see how giving Russia ROP will hurt us, and helping the AI kill each other is a good thing - so no problem there. Welcome to deity 5CC. Russian stacks would not scare me too much - Iroquois stacks on the other hand...
Here is my 2 cents on iron: techs are way too valuable, and it won't be long before the AI won't even want iron anymore, so we should not spend much time holding it. A couple turns probably would be OK.
On upgrading units: I would hate to spend the gold but instead maybe start a few iron using units then trade it off again.
Looks like a good turnset.
Here is my 2 cents on iron: techs are way too valuable, and it won't be long before the AI won't even want iron anymore, so we should not spend much time holding it. A couple turns probably would be OK.
On upgrading units: I would hate to spend the gold but instead maybe start a few iron using units then trade it off again.
Looks like a good turnset.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Pre-turn:
Monty will renegotiate for Wines, and the Iron is off the table, so our deals must be over; it seems he now has his own supply of Iron, so I buy Wines for 11 gpt.
Upgrade three Swords.
Brennus gives Chemistry for Iron + 43gpt.
Lone Scientist to Metallurgy.
Enter:
IBT:
Russia wishes to extend peace, I accept.
660 AD:
Pyong completes University; begins Collosseum.
IBT:
Byz DOW Celts.
670 AD:
Gems to Monty for 19 gpt.
IBT:
Hittites/ Russia make Peace; Hittites/ Celts MA America.
680 AD:
Nada.
IBT:
America DOW Babylon; England DOW Hittites; Aztecs/ Hittites peace; Aztecs/ Byz peace; France/Byz peace, ending our deal early.
690 AD:
Bouncing Bucket completes Bank, begins Collosseum.
France gives Metallurgy for Iron, 110g, & 70gpt; Research to MT, since some civs do not have it, we may get to trade.
IBT:
Iroquois DOW England; Germany/Byz make peace; France/Russia make peace.
700 AD:
Nampo completes Bank, begins Collosseum.
IBT:
Nada.
710 AD:
Nada.
IBT:
Celts/ Germany make peace; Iroquois/Byz make peace.
720 AD:
Nada.
730 AD:
Stack of Russian Rifles and LB's trespass near BB; I hope that they are heading to England, but I've sent the Sword Army to BB in case.
IBT:
France DOW England; Russians move adjacent to BB.
740 AD:
Pay Russia 75g for ROP; I want to lower the risk of an attack, and the sooner they go through our territory, the happier I'll be. Cathy now 'Polite'.
IBT:
Russia DOW Iroquois; Hittites/France make peace.
750 AD: Nada.
End turn notes:
I chose to research MT for 3 reasons;
1) We need cavalry.
2) The only other non-optional tech is Astronomy which is known by all, and has no trade value.
3) MT is still unknown by a few civs, so should give us a trade option.
I resisted the temptation to cream off any workers; all tiles currently being worked have been improved, so I figured to save the unit support for now.
I have built 4 or 5 Trebs.
@ Zerksees: It's true that Iron has lost some of it's value, compounded by the fact that only Celts and France lack it; however, once Steam is known, it will have value again, since it's required for rails and then factories.
@ Whomp: Thanks, mate; it only seems like 5 minutes that you were trying to coax me past 'Monarch' level. It's largely thanks to your patient tutelage that I feel able to compete at this level.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/Goz12_750_AD.SAV
Monty will renegotiate for Wines, and the Iron is off the table, so our deals must be over; it seems he now has his own supply of Iron, so I buy Wines for 11 gpt.
Upgrade three Swords.
Brennus gives Chemistry for Iron + 43gpt.
Lone Scientist to Metallurgy.
Enter:
IBT:
Russia wishes to extend peace, I accept.
660 AD:
Pyong completes University; begins Collosseum.
IBT:
Byz DOW Celts.
670 AD:
Gems to Monty for 19 gpt.
IBT:
Hittites/ Russia make Peace; Hittites/ Celts MA America.
680 AD:
Nada.
IBT:
America DOW Babylon; England DOW Hittites; Aztecs/ Hittites peace; Aztecs/ Byz peace; France/Byz peace, ending our deal early.
690 AD:
Bouncing Bucket completes Bank, begins Collosseum.
France gives Metallurgy for Iron, 110g, & 70gpt; Research to MT, since some civs do not have it, we may get to trade.
IBT:
Iroquois DOW England; Germany/Byz make peace; France/Russia make peace.
700 AD:
Nampo completes Bank, begins Collosseum.
IBT:
Nada.
710 AD:
Nada.
IBT:
Celts/ Germany make peace; Iroquois/Byz make peace.
720 AD:
Nada.
730 AD:
Stack of Russian Rifles and LB's trespass near BB; I hope that they are heading to England, but I've sent the Sword Army to BB in case.
IBT:
France DOW England; Russians move adjacent to BB.
740 AD:
Pay Russia 75g for ROP; I want to lower the risk of an attack, and the sooner they go through our territory, the happier I'll be. Cathy now 'Polite'.
IBT:
Russia DOW Iroquois; Hittites/France make peace.
750 AD: Nada.
End turn notes:
I chose to research MT for 3 reasons;
1) We need cavalry.
2) The only other non-optional tech is Astronomy which is known by all, and has no trade value.
3) MT is still unknown by a few civs, so should give us a trade option.
I resisted the temptation to cream off any workers; all tiles currently being worked have been improved, so I figured to save the unit support for now.
I have built 4 or 5 Trebs.
@ Zerksees: It's true that Iron has lost some of it's value, compounded by the fact that only Celts and France lack it; however, once Steam is known, it will have value again, since it's required for rails and then factories.
@ Whomp: Thanks, mate; it only seems like 5 minutes that you were trying to coax me past 'Monarch' level. It's largely thanks to your patient tutelage that I feel able to compete at this level.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/Goz12_750_AD.SAV
zerksees
in remission
ThanksWhomp said:
Bucephalus. Looks good - going for military tradition is a good optional tech. I'll watch each turn and see if we still have trading opportunities with them. I do have one minor point - I would probably have left the scientist on astronomy since we were already several turns into it and it was a required tech.
I am up next unless someone else is strongly compelled to join us - and speaks up before I start. I'll have more analysis after I look at the save.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
zerksees said:
Whomp said:
zerksees said:
Sorry, I thought this indicated differently.
zerksees
in remission
question for you guys. In 810 AD I noticed France is down to one city. We have iron and 70 gpt going to them for 8 more turns. I know they are sinking so I buy 258 gold, 4 workers and printing press for 79 gpt (hoping someone does not have democracy). The rampaging English whack the French on the IBT.
Now the AI is hesitant to trade. Apparently our credit rating has dropped, and I can only get 3 gold from an AI for a 1 gpt payment. Will the AI get over this or are we doomed to paying gold the rest of the game?
Now the AI is hesitant to trade. Apparently our credit rating has dropped, and I can only get 3 gold from an AI for a 1 gpt payment. Will the AI get over this or are we doomed to paying gold the rest of the game?
No apology is needed here. I should have been more specific about this. At the time I read Whomp's post I thought we would want to switch, but later decided it would be OK to keep going on astronomy, since it was required (hence the word may in my post). Really though the lone scientist strategy has mixed results because you often buy the tech before substantial research has been done. I often wonder if it is worth it at all.Bucephalus said:Sorry, I thought this indicated differently.
