Goz7 - The Squeeze Rematch

[bed_head7]

I have it.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We need to try and gobble up land too. We're walking a tightrope. Sounds like I almost knocked us off. Good thing I have Lee to pull us back to safety.

 

[LKendter]

We need to try and gobble up land too. We're walking a tightrope. Sounds like I almost knocked us off. Good thing I have Lee to pull us back to safety.

We still have more land on the wary I fortified a lot of units in "neutral" territory. As soon as those temples I disbanded the pults for complete and expand we have more cities, and may squeeze even more with another set of temples.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

It will be interestig to see if we have saltpeter. If we don't, we may have to go to war again with Spain to get it.

 

[LKendter]

It will be interestig to see if we have saltpeter. If we don't, we may have to go to war again with Spain to get it.

I am pretty sure Spain had a musket. I did raze the gold hill town. If the saltpeter is in those mountains the all the units are sitting on...

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I know Spain had muskets. I had to kill five of those $%&@#@ guys to get Santander. I'm just wondering where they have their saltpeter. With our luck, it will be on the southern coast.

 

[bed_head7]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/goz7_750AD.SAV

650 AD (0) - Change a couple builds that just don't make sense to me. Like a market in a size two town with only a temple.

IT - Egyptians demand spices. I decide some war happiness is more valuable than whatever we might lose in the war, which will probably be very little considering they are at war with the Maya.

660 AD (1) - It had quite an effect. Lux to 10%, and the only change necessary is one entertainer instead of scientist in Babylon.

680 AD (3) - That lone entertainer is now a taxman. Also found some city, and start working on more settlers out of Babylon. Disband some cats towards a temple.

690 AD (4) - Nineveh starts on settler

IT - Romans disappear from the map

700 AD (5) - Babylon finishes a settler, heads south, starts another.

720 AD (7) - Claim some more land, build some more settlers, learn Theology, start Education.

IT - Maya declare on Spanish

730 AD (8) - We could now trade a our only wines with Maya, but we wouldn't get much profit out of it. Or with Spain, for no real profit.

IT - Egyptian "warship" off the coast (or maybe just a galley). Maya and Egypt sign peace

740 AD (9) - Check with Egyptians, and they will take peace straight up. That might not be the case after they have dropped off whatever they have, and who knows if there is anything else coming. So peace signed. Of course, there goes war happiness, so a few specialists will need to be hired.

750 AD (10) - Guess I missed Eridu last turn, as it goes into civil disorder. Settle another place, and there is an active settler, as well as two others that have already moved. Nothing else to settle at the moment, as borders haven't expanded, but they are ready to claim land when borders do expand. I disbanded some cats to speed temples, and we could probably keep doing that. I don't know how comfortable people are with disbanding other units, though, like bowmen, so I haven't done that. I mixed up some worker stuff in the north, so their assignments are not quite how I would like them at the moment.

Black dots with next border expansions, then pink dot if we work quickly. We can also get the gems once we outculture that city there with the V.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Remember that markets also provide tax revenue. The happies you get from a market are great, but the taxes are worth every shield.

 

[gozpel]

Gozpel (on deck)
Greebley
Sir Bugsy
LKendter
Bedhead
Kaiser Berger (currently playing)

 

[bed_head7]

Remember that markets also provide tax revenue. The happies you get from a market are great, but the taxes are worth every shield.

I am very much aware of that. Also remember that markets have a maintenance cost, no culture, and that the city that I mentioned was earning 1gpt at the time and would be lucky if it made 2gpt before size 4. So it would barely pay before itself at first. That, in my mind, does not justify 100s, when it could build a library for 40s. At this point in the game, we are also putting more towards science than taxes, so we get that money back.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I've got it.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I am very much aware of that. Also remember that markets have a maintenance cost, no culture, and that the city that I mentioned was earning 1gpt at the time and would be lucky if it made 2gpt before size 4. So it would barely pay before itself at first. That, in my mind, does not justify 100s, when it could build a library for 40s. At this point in the game, we are also putting more towards science than taxes, so we get that money back.

That's some solid logic bed. My apologies for doubting you.

 

[bed_head7]

No problem. My level of play has by no means been constant, and even though it is frustrating to be doubted when I feel I made the right decision, there have been games (SGOTM4 in particular) where I wasn't playing all that well. So naturally those that have seen that level of play from me will have some doubts about decisions, especially if the builds I am changing were started by LKendter. Just because I know that my play has improved doesn't mean that everyone else will see that immediately, or perhaps even agree that it has.

Edit: Although I would have hoped that you would know that I knew the effects of an improvement as basic as the marketplace.

 

[gozpel]

You're not wrong often bedhead and you don't have to explain anything for muffins like Bugs. He wasn't wrong with his conclusions, just the size of the towns and I always listen to his ideas. This time he was just a little bit out of concentration, which sometimes happens with me too.

So now shake and continue. You will always have my trust when it comes to MM'ing, bedhead. Remember I called you a calculator once bedhead? I think you are and a damn good one. Just now, I play with the best calculators in SGOTM and I'm just the irrational one in that team

And when it comes to Bugs's ideas I listen as well. But he has to be sober.

Well squeezed btw, last players.

 

[bed_head7]

Well, thanks. Though you are exaggerating, no use arguing. Of course, I didn't intend to turn it into a discussion about my level of play. Maybe next time I won't start off with "level of play," or just use a PM, as I just meant to tell Bugsy he had no reason to apologize.

 

[gozpel]

And you have nothing to argue about, just prove yourself.

I know your standards and maybe a little "deity player" in your signature, would make people take you seriously.

Because, you're a serious player.

 

[LKendter]

I took a look at the game.
1) It won't help with Education, but with $300 in the bank we can afford some negative research. I have never seen that level of gold go in a single round of demands. We still badly need to catch up on tech and negative research may save some turns.
2) Why aren't we shipping the spices out? This is our biggest trade advantage, and should be fully used. For example: Egypt will give wm and $60 or $150. That shows they learned a lot more of the world if WM is worth $90. Cash will fund negative research to catch up. Spices and $54 to Portugal saves 3 turns of Education research at $150 / turn. There are more combinations out there, and we want to keep the spices going to anyone that will help reduce the tech whole.
3) We need to dedicate a city to building pikemen. We can't keep inviting AI wars with units going through our territory.
4) Our barricade troops need to move into neutral territory. Guarding spaces inside our borders is a waste. The goal is to squeeze more cities from Spain before they die. I really want the gems mountain location.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Preturn- I get Education from Portugal for spices and 60g. I also send out some to Egypt for gold and WM.

IT- zzz

T1 760

Rush temple in Nina.

IT- Portugal delcares war on Dutch. Maya declares war on Portuguese.

T2 770

Rush temple in Telloh.

IT- zzz

T3 780

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T4 790

Invention due next turn.

IT- We learn Invention, start on Gunpowder, due in 7 turns.

T5 800

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T6 810

Ebla founded.

IT- Maya take Barcelona. Spain is starting to crumble.

T7 820

Not much. Move a settler towards its new home.

IT-zzz

T8 830

Nothing.

IT- Our first Unis come online.

T9 840

Ashur founded.

IT- zzz

T10 850

Carchemish founded.


Summary

We have gunpowder next turn. Once we can see where the saltpeter is, we might consider some war against Spain, as they are nearly dead. A war to gain saltpeter and their gems would be very helpful.

 

[bed_head7]

I took a look at the game.
1) It won't help with Education, but with $300 in the bank we can afford some negative research. I have never seen that level of gold go in a single round of demands. We still badly need to catch up on tech and negative research may save some turns.
2) Why aren't we shipping the spices out? This is our biggest trade advantage, and should be fully used. For example: Egypt will give wm and $60 or $150. That shows they learned a lot more of the world if WM is worth $90. Cash will fund negative research to catch up. Spices and $54 to Portugal saves 3 turns of Education research at $150 / turn. There are more combinations out there, and we want to keep the spices going to anyone that will help reduce the tech whole.
3) We need to dedicate a city to building pikemen. We can't keep inviting AI wars with units going through our territory.
4) Our barricade troops need to move into neutral territory. Guarding spaces inside our borders is a waste. The goal is to squeeze more cities from Spain before they die. I really want the gems mountain location.

Perhaps my reasoning was off here, but I seem to remember times when the AI could trade over sea or ocean, but the human player could not, and there was no available trade route. Meaning that our route to Portugal and Egypt goes throught Mayan and Spanish territory. I could be waaaay off on that one, in which case we wasted some turns when we could have gotten gold from Portugal. Our war happiness from Egypt more than made up for losing that gold, though.

As for units guarding spaces, unless you intend to send our units north, I only see two neutral spots that are unguarded, both should have a settler of ours theirs soon, and settled once borders expand, and neither would ever be settled by the AI.

Edit: I wanted to double check before saying anything, but you had two extra spices at the end of your turns, with nations where I thought the trade route might get broken up. Knowing how much you value rep, it seemed likely that you hadn't made the trade for the same reason that I cited above.

Second edit: Now have tested, and trading is fine, even if Maya declare on us, so in the game where the route was broken, there must have been some other factor involved.

 

[LKendter]

Perhaps my reasoning was off here, but I seem to remember times when the AI could trade over sea or ocean, but the human player could not, and there was no available trade route.

This can happen under when goods go to Rome via an Egypt port. After a war with Egypt we can't trade with Rome. It is always a good thing to check the trade target has there own port. I generally refuse to trade with inland civs after LK75 had our rep ruinded that way.