Goz7 - The Squeeze Rematch
- Thread starter gozpel
- Start date
I also agree with a Portuguese war. It is the first step to getting the Saltpeter on the island off the coast. I hope we tried to place the city so that a border expansion allows for a city on the island?
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
The city placement was bad. I looked at the game already. It requires additional expansions from the city. It wasn't set up to control with 10 culture border expansion.Greebley said:
Either way I agree with Portugal war. I almost started it during my turns. We at least squeezed in more city sites. We need a lot more culture to win this one.
I was planning to put it in the same place as the old Mayan then Portuguese city, but Egyptian culture was stronger and they took that tile, not us. I was left with two options. One would gets us a claim on that island after only 10cp, but loses the fish. The other gets culture to the island at 100cp, and gets the fish. We are not going to be getting Rio Janiero out of the way for us to settle the island soon enough to throw away the fish, in my opinion. Assuming, of course, that we do go to Communism. If we stay in Republic and don't spend anythign rushing the temple and library, then that placement is a problem.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
Preturn- We look alright.
IT- zzz
T1 1305
Not much. Fix some unhappiness.
IT- Ports drop off 3 cavs.
T2 1310
Kill the cavs.
IT- We lose our coal. I reneg with Cleo, use spices to drop the price to 26gpt.
T3 1315
Not much new.
IT- 4 more cavs dropped off.
T4 1320
Notthing new.
IT- zzz
T5 1325
Not much new.
IT- zzz
T6 1330
We get Sanitation next turn. Turn down science.
IT- We learn Sanitation.
T7 1335
You know what is more annoying than one civ learning Sanitation the same turn as us. EVERY civ learning Sanitation the same turn as us
I set our research to Electricity, as we're going to need some arty and infantry to pull this one out. Not that we're going to have rubber, of course
IT- zzz
T8 1340
Not much new.
IT- Egypt completes Uni Suff.
T9 1345
Nadda.
IT- zzz
T10 1350
Same old routine.
Summary
Pretty boring turns. Our military is slightly better, but not much. As cities get done with buildings we should build more military. 6 MI and 16 Trebs isn't going to make much of a dent on anyone.
Maya still don't know Electricity, if that holds we may be able to swing a deal in eight turns, but don't count on it.
IT- zzz
T1 1305
Not much. Fix some unhappiness.
IT- Ports drop off 3 cavs.
T2 1310
Kill the cavs.
IT- We lose our coal. I reneg with Cleo, use spices to drop the price to 26gpt.
T3 1315
Not much new.
IT- 4 more cavs dropped off.
T4 1320
Notthing new.
IT- zzz
T5 1325
Not much new.
IT- zzz
T6 1330
We get Sanitation next turn. Turn down science.
IT- We learn Sanitation.
T7 1335
You know what is more annoying than one civ learning Sanitation the same turn as us. EVERY civ learning Sanitation the same turn as us
I set our research to Electricity, as we're going to need some arty and infantry to pull this one out. Not that we're going to have rubber, of course
IT- zzz
T8 1340
Not much new.
IT- Egypt completes Uni Suff.
T9 1345
Nadda.
IT- zzz
T10 1350
Same old routine.
Summary
Pretty boring turns. Our military is slightly better, but not much. As cities get done with buildings we should build more military. 6 MI and 16 Trebs isn't going to make much of a dent on anyone.
Maya still don't know Electricity, if that holds we may be able to swing a deal in eight turns, but don't count on it.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
I kept the war up because we didn't have much to lose. I was kind of hoping they would keep landing a few more cav so our elite MI would have a shot at getting us an army. You are right though, they will take peace at any time and can sign peace whenever.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Getting an army would be great, although we really don't have much to put in it.
I stuffed up my log, so here's a recap.
Made peace with Portugal, didn't get anything for it.
Researched Electricity at max possible.
No way the AI wanted to pay anything for our luxes and their resources was way too expensive.
I slowly built up some more MI's.
Egypt finish ToE.
We learn Electricity and I give that and 215g to Maya for Industrialization. Decided to research nothing and we were doing around 300gpt. We might as well try to steal some stuff.
Late we declare war on Maya and raze Barcelona, getting a couple of trebs and some slaves.
We get a leader and I build a MI-army and have to stop here, I'm sure Greebley can handle one extra turn. We need to decide on what action is bext for now.
I founded a couple of cities and we have a spare settler.
We can get alliances against Maya fairly cheap and we can get Miltary Tradition from the Dutch very cheaply, if we throw in our iron in the deal.
Saltpeter would cost around 100gpt from Egypt.
Horses from Portugal around 40gpt, including our luxes.
These deals also include alliances if I checked it right. Stupidly I filled the army with MI's when we would have a chance to get cavs, if we chosed to make the deals
If we can get rid of Maya on our side of the choke (Valencia) we will sit much better.
Positive things would be better military, like cavs and cannons. I wouldn't mind rifles, but that would cost everything we have and I hope we can steal it.
Negative is that we would be locked in the deals for 20 turns.
If the deals cost around 150gpt, we will still have that amount and more per turn. Also by getting the territory around Murcia, we will have another iron and our own horses. There's also an incense nearby we could use.
Or do we just hold on to our hats and wait for peace?
Please check out the save and try to figure something out.
Btw, our culture is on the rise and Maya is still in the lead. Another reason to make them hurt a bit.
Gozpel
Greebley (currently playing)
Sir Bugsy (on deck)
LKendter
Bedhead
Kaiser Berger
Made peace with Portugal, didn't get anything for it.
Researched Electricity at max possible.
No way the AI wanted to pay anything for our luxes and their resources was way too expensive.
I slowly built up some more MI's.
Egypt finish ToE.
We learn Electricity and I give that and 215g to Maya for Industrialization. Decided to research nothing and we were doing around 300gpt. We might as well try to steal some stuff.
Late we declare war on Maya and raze Barcelona, getting a couple of trebs and some slaves.
We get a leader and I build a MI-army and have to stop here, I'm sure Greebley can handle one extra turn. We need to decide on what action is bext for now.
I founded a couple of cities and we have a spare settler.
We can get alliances against Maya fairly cheap and we can get Miltary Tradition from the Dutch very cheaply, if we throw in our iron in the deal.
Saltpeter would cost around 100gpt from Egypt.
Horses from Portugal around 40gpt, including our luxes.
These deals also include alliances if I checked it right. Stupidly I filled the army with MI's when we would have a chance to get cavs, if we chosed to make the deals
If we can get rid of Maya on our side of the choke (Valencia) we will sit much better.
Positive things would be better military, like cavs and cannons. I wouldn't mind rifles, but that would cost everything we have and I hope we can steal it.
Negative is that we would be locked in the deals for 20 turns.
If the deals cost around 150gpt, we will still have that amount and more per turn. Also by getting the territory around Murcia, we will have another iron and our own horses. There's also an incense nearby we could use.
Or do we just hold on to our hats and wait for peace?
Please check out the save and try to figure something out.
Btw, our culture is on the rise and Maya is still in the lead. Another reason to make them hurt a bit.
Gozpel
Greebley (currently playing)
Sir Bugsy (on deck)
LKendter
Bedhead
Kaiser Berger
Ok, I got it. I have another game to play first so we have a bit of time for discussion. I want to get cavalry and to keep up the fight on the Mayans, so I am not against an alliance per se if it will benefit us.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
If we are planning to go spying I have a request that we research Nationalism and Espionage. I have heard several times that spies have a better success rate them diplomats. In addition, we can steal during wartime. We don't have to risk war to get a tech. We also need to decide about Communism soon. That will probably also be easy to research and we can have the CIA built by then, and we get veteran spies.
Do we want to build factories? We have a couple of cities at 20 shields / turn. I don't have a clear feel for this, but what does the team think? No matter what we need to start optimizing the core. For example: Babylon is size 12 with 5 excess food. A few more shields wouldn't hurt.
Do we want to build factories? We have a couple of cities at 20 shields / turn. I don't have a clear feel for this, but what does the team think? No matter what we need to start optimizing the core. For example: Babylon is size 12 with 5 excess food. A few more shields wouldn't hurt.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
First - I agree with Lee to optimize the core, that would be where we want to build factories.
Second - With our variant, Communism won't make a lot of sense, we would lose the ability to cash rush temples for border expansions, something to consider. We will still be able to whip them at pop 2. However, we couldn't cash rush all the other cultural buildings we'll need.
Third - I would press on and try and take out Seville. We will then be able to build a city on the plains north of New Ellipi.
Fourth - I would press on and try and control the Valencia choke.
Last - Go for the deals, having cavs and cannons will make a huge difference for us.
Second - With our variant, Communism won't make a lot of sense, we would lose the ability to cash rush temples for border expansions, something to consider. We will still be able to whip them at pop 2. However, we couldn't cash rush all the other cultural buildings we'll need.
Third - I would press on and try and take out Seville. We will then be able to build a city on the plains north of New Ellipi.
Fourth - I would press on and try and control the Valencia choke.
Last - Go for the deals, having cavs and cannons will make a huge difference for us.
A study of espionage missions
Very handy article there, and spies are significantly more successful.
I am all for factories in cities getting 20spt or something in that range. Three turn infantry will be nice if we can pull them in a few cities (assuming rubber, of course, but I am sure we'll land some ).
Communism has a few factors in its favor. We are way over OCN, so overall productivity is higher. While we are more in the tech picture now, we will probably be putting a fair amount of money into trying to stay in that. My last couple turnsets have not seen any cash rushing, so cash rushing may not be the reason to stay in a represenative government. And if we are more productive, we will be able to build those expensive improvements a bit faster naturally. In cities with all cultural improvements, we can build a few MI for disbanding and rushing. I am by no means convinced that Communism is the best course, but it should not be tossed aside because we would lose the option to cash rush.
Very handy article there, and spies are significantly more successful.
I am all for factories in cities getting 20spt or something in that range. Three turn infantry will be nice if we can pull them in a few cities (assuming rubber, of course, but I am sure we'll land some
). Communism has a few factors in its favor. We are way over OCN, so overall productivity is higher. While we are more in the tech picture now, we will probably be putting a fair amount of money into trying to stay in that. My last couple turnsets have not seen any cash rushing, so cash rushing may not be the reason to stay in a represenative government. And if we are more productive, we will be able to build those expensive improvements a bit faster naturally. In cities with all cultural improvements, we can build a few MI for disbanding and rushing. I am by no means convinced that Communism is the best course, but it should not be tossed aside because we would lose the option to cash rush.
Preturn: Tough choice. We can go for Rep Parts or Mil Trad, Horses, Saltpeter.
Decide to go for fast units: I buy Mil Trad, horses, Saltpeter for 230 gpt, 158gold, gems, and world map.
I also trade 2 resources to Portugal, 6 gpt, for Ivory.
For science, 10% is 50 turns to get Rep Parts. I MM for scientists and can get it down to 26 turns. The alternative is to slowly save money for a steal, but that would be 20+ turns as well. I would rather do the research now while we are poor and then in 20 turns we can quickly finish up the research when we have our cash back.
I will also be irrigating our southern lands to speed up the tech even more. Once it is all Irrigated and RR'd we can hire more scientists and get RP faster.
IBT: We lose 3 or 4 pikes on defense. We get one retreat. Build 1st Cav.
1400 AD: Kill 6-7 Cavalry. Place Pikes into Mountains and hills to block access to some cities.
IBT: We lose 1 MDI and a Pike. We kill 3 Cavalry on defense. Big landing of Portuguese Infantry (4) near Pamplona.
1405 AD: Reduce Rep Parts to 22 turns.
IBT: Lose 2 Pike on defense. The one on the mountain kills a Cavalry. 2 more Cav killed. 2 more Cav.
1410 AD: Clean up more Mayan units. I have enough Cavalry to be able to clean up 1 hp Mayan units on hills in their territory.
IBT: Lose 2 pikes and a Cav on mountain. We also lose our Coal and the cost is too high to renew. I don't think I have ever had this much land and so few resources as this game.
1415 AD: Would now cost us more than 80 gpt. That seems a bit extreme. I won't buy it. One can hope that we can eventually make progress vs the Mayans and get it ourselves, but that might be a bit hard. Continue to clear out the 5 or so cavalry that show up ever time (occasional losses).
IBT: Some attacks but we hold them off
1420 AD: Finally destroy Pamona. Some MDI lost. Get a Leader and build a Cav Army
IBT: Egyptians start Hoover Dam. Lose 3 Pikes on mountains.
1425 AD: Kill invading cavalry.
1430 AD: Kill Invading Cavalry
1435 AD: Our armies destroy Seville which brings the incense into or borders (which we really need).
We really needed the Incense. War Weariness was getting bad.
1440 AD: Healing.
1445 AD: Raze Zaragoza
1450 AD: Protect our Incense. Kill units in our lands.
Notes:
There is a big pile of rifles near 2 E of Murcia.
I didn't make any alliances so we can go for peace. I would take out Murcia to get the horses and Velencia to grab the Choke though.
We needed Cavalry and muskets badly so I built them. We need Factories, hero Epic, Pentagon, etc. I would switch to these once the war ends which ideally would be after Murcia and Valencia fall.
We are woefully short of defenders. We lost a lot of Pikes in the war.
We currently have 21 Pike, 5 Muskets, 9 Cavalry, 4 Cannon, 3 armies (1 MDI, 2 Cav), 7 MDI, 16 Trebs.
Rep Parts is down to 11 turns now (still at 10% science).
When War Weariness hits the next level we may have to make instant peace (otherwise too much WW). I would make taking out Murcia a top priority.
Do we want to Abandon Samarra so we can build a town that will reach the island with the Saltpeter? We have to go to war with Egypt, but It may be worth it. Saltpeter is very expensive.
Decide to go for fast units: I buy Mil Trad, horses, Saltpeter for 230 gpt, 158gold, gems, and world map.
I also trade 2 resources to Portugal, 6 gpt, for Ivory.
For science, 10% is 50 turns to get Rep Parts. I MM for scientists and can get it down to 26 turns. The alternative is to slowly save money for a steal, but that would be 20+ turns as well. I would rather do the research now while we are poor and then in 20 turns we can quickly finish up the research when we have our cash back.
I will also be irrigating our southern lands to speed up the tech even more. Once it is all Irrigated and RR'd we can hire more scientists and get RP faster.
IBT: We lose 3 or 4 pikes on defense. We get one retreat. Build 1st Cav.
1400 AD: Kill 6-7 Cavalry. Place Pikes into Mountains and hills to block access to some cities.
IBT: We lose 1 MDI and a Pike. We kill 3 Cavalry on defense. Big landing of Portuguese Infantry (4) near Pamplona.
1405 AD: Reduce Rep Parts to 22 turns.
IBT: Lose 2 Pike on defense. The one on the mountain kills a Cavalry. 2 more Cav killed. 2 more Cav.
1410 AD: Clean up more Mayan units. I have enough Cavalry to be able to clean up 1 hp Mayan units on hills in their territory.
IBT: Lose 2 pikes and a Cav on mountain. We also lose our Coal and the cost is too high to renew. I don't think I have ever had this much land and so few resources as this game.
1415 AD: Would now cost us more than 80 gpt. That seems a bit extreme. I won't buy it. One can hope that we can eventually make progress vs the Mayans and get it ourselves, but that might be a bit hard. Continue to clear out the 5 or so cavalry that show up ever time (occasional losses).
IBT: Some attacks but we hold them off
1420 AD: Finally destroy Pamona. Some MDI lost. Get a Leader and build a Cav Army
IBT: Egyptians start Hoover Dam. Lose 3 Pikes on mountains.
1425 AD: Kill invading cavalry.
1430 AD: Kill Invading Cavalry
1435 AD: Our armies destroy Seville which brings the incense into or borders (which we really need).
We really needed the Incense. War Weariness was getting bad.
1440 AD: Healing.
1445 AD: Raze Zaragoza
1450 AD: Protect our Incense. Kill units in our lands.
Notes:
There is a big pile of rifles near 2 E of Murcia.
I didn't make any alliances so we can go for peace. I would take out Murcia to get the horses and Velencia to grab the Choke though.
We needed Cavalry and muskets badly so I built them. We need Factories, hero Epic, Pentagon, etc. I would switch to these once the war ends which ideally would be after Murcia and Valencia fall.
We are woefully short of defenders. We lost a lot of Pikes in the war.
We currently have 21 Pike, 5 Muskets, 9 Cavalry, 4 Cannon, 3 armies (1 MDI, 2 Cav), 7 MDI, 16 Trebs.
Rep Parts is down to 11 turns now (still at 10% science).
When War Weariness hits the next level we may have to make instant peace (otherwise too much WW). I would make taking out Murcia a top priority.
Do we want to Abandon Samarra so we can build a town that will reach the island with the Saltpeter? We have to go to war with Egypt, but It may be worth it. Saltpeter is very expensive.
Here is a map of the Mayan front
Edit: I left out the fact I got a second leader (3rd army on last turn).
Edit: I left out the fact I got a second leader (3rd army on last turn).
How much gold do we have? The temple there should almost be done. Would it be viable to then rush a library? If we do that, we have culture there in 20 turns. Of course, the need for saltpeter may not be so great then. I honestly didn't realize that we would be pushing for the saltpeter so soon, or I would have settled so that we could get it after one cultural expansion instead of two.
There is more MM we can do and improving our lands to balance shields. We do need more mines in our core (capitol). I mostly worked on irrigation to the south to increase our science rate.
