GR17 - AWE vs 30 civs

Pre:
Sword kills archer (1-0).
Sword kills 5/5 spear (2-0).
Now here is a pre for yeah. 4/5 jt kill archer and get a slave and a leader.
Form an army (3-0).
Switch cat to a sword in Chicken as we need to use those we have for the army.

IBT:
Indian archer attacks 2/5 jt and dies, we get a slave (1-0).
Indian archer attacks 3/4 sword and dies, sword goes elite (2-0).
4 barb horses dies on j/t and sword and jt goes elite and makes a slave (6-0).

70AD:
Too many cities.
7 Carth units near Dyland.
Add one unit to 2nd army.
5/5 sword kills Indian archer (1-0).
[10-0]

IBT:
Nips send units to dyland.
India sends 5 archers towards Bengal.

90AD:
JT kill carth num (1-0).
jt kills carth warrior on the mountains (2-0).
I am going to bump the lux as I am sure the dyes will be cut during the IBT.
[12-0]

IBT:
carth warrior dies attacking jt in Dyland (1-0).
Num cuts dyes.
[13-0]

110AD:
Cuello riots.
Sword kill a num on a hill (1-0). I have to risk it as we cannot hold the town unless I can get some help there.
Sword kills a cath archer there (2-0).
jt kills barb, goes elite (3-0).
Too many cities.
jt kills Indian archer gets a slave (4-0).
4/5* jt kill Indian archer (5-0).
2nd kills archer and 1st kills 2 (8-0).
Benagal rioting as well now.
[21-0]


IBT:
Nip archers dies at Dyland (1-0).
Carth warrior also dies (2-0).
Carth Num dies there and the sword goes elite (3-0).
Bangalore finsihed Artemis.
London builds the Great Wall.
Wow I was lucky on this IT. I was seriously thinking of abandoning Dyland so as to not loose it and then founding another town to keep the count maxed.
It was defended by 2 units one red, one yellow and then I moved in two more yellow units.
None were forted and faced 4 immediate attackers and 3 more nums on the next tile.
Whew no losses.
[24-0]

130AD:
Oh my, first one is 5/5 sword vs 5/5 Indian archer and boom another leader you say (1-0).
Form army. Need units to fill these armies. 2nd is 2 man now and yellow.
5/5 sword kills Indian archer (2-0).
5/5 jt kills Num at Dyland (3-0).
3/5 jt kills barb and collects 25 gold from the camp (4-0).
2nd kills archer, now 2/8. Will add the sword that made a leader next turn (5-0).

IBT:
French finish the Gardens.
[29-0]

150AD:
Join 3/5* sword to 2nd.
jt kills Idian archer at Bengal and goes elite, gets a slave (1-0).
2nd kills archer (2-0). No rax so healing is slow. I switch build to a rax as this will be a busy spot, until we can get those armies out.
3/5* jt kills archer and gets a slave (3-0).
1st kills 2 archers (5-0).
[34-0]

Notes:
Sorry guys, I have to get going to work and it will be 10pm before I get back. Tomorrow is a busy day for me this week with only Sunday off, so I will pass it back with only 5 turns.

Someone can have most of the weekend now to do a set.

I have 2 taxmen, that could be beakerheads, but right now we need 4 more to matter.
A few units near Lazapa or whatever the name is are forted with enemy units near. I was going let them get to where I could try to ping them or they can attack forted swords on a mountain.

Dyland is left for the next player to decide. We have 4 nums next to it and a Nip archer that is not moving. The town has 4 jt's, 3 full health and a 5/5 sowrd. You have a few units near that you can consider attacking with as well.

I was thinking of letting the nums attack as they are hard to kill with javs, but not quite so strong attacking.

I forget if I tried to settle or not so the settler under the spear can be tested.
I went for Myst as I figured we wanted to get to Monarchy.
The 1st is now full health and can be sent out, I hope as the rush should be quelled some after losing so many archers.

Need to get the dye connected at the other town. Many workers are near and can get on the tile next turn. I was forced to be careful about moving workers in that area as archer were coming from three directions.
 
We have 1st at 12/12 iirc and the 2nd 3/13. The empty army is in Bengal. It will be some time before we can get sword to fill it.

I messed up putting some slaves on the wrong moutain to road near the spear/settler. They should have been on the next one over.
 
Yes, the conventional wisdom about avoiding a despotic GA grossly oversimplifies the question. The long-term multiplier effect of doing even 20% better than normal before 1000 BC is enormous.

I don't think it's a gross oversimplification to say that a GA with three towns qualifies as weak. Just to be clear, I agree it was unavoidable at that time. Copan had 2 reg warriors defending and 6 Japanese warriors inbound. The JT had to be brought in for defense or we would have lost the town and possibly the game. I understand the logic of going for WC first because of the slave factor, and that certainly boosted the overall position.

Had I been playing this solo, I probably would have started with bronze working and taken the less efficient spear just for delaying the GA long enough for some more towns. But there's no arguing with results. Our position right now looks just fine. :goodjob:

edit: Checked out the latest save. India and Carthage are both in the Middle Ages now, so we should probably focus on finding Delhi and capturing the GL.
 
I think I forgot about a num attacking Dyland on the IBT. If there are only four there, then one attacked and died. Anyway the reason I mention it is that Carth has been attacking with any units next to Dyland.

Getting very senile. I forgot to mention the Pentagon. I did not start it as I figured we need the sword more right now and will gamble on a leader to rush. I did not count the towns to see if we have enough for another army now or not.
 
ok, got it and if Greebley is lucky, he has a whole Sunday to play his turns as well
 
save

Pre-Turn
MM a little, fire the taxmen and get scientists
mysticism in 4, would like some fast units (horses)

IT defend against 4 units at Dyland producing 1 slave [4-0]

1.170AD
defeat archer at Bengal
defeat 3 remaining units at Dyland, but need to expose some units to Japanese archers

IT we go 1:1 against the Japanese, because only 2/4 archers attacked, get a slave

2.190AD
clean up 3 Japanese archers near Dyland, but run into 3 more in the hills
clear archer at Kolhapur and 2 at Bengal
defeat 2 spears In Chittagong

IT go 2:1 in the Dyland hills

3. 210AD
Dyes at Kolhapur connected, thus helps the happy situation
defeat 2 units at capture Chittagong
clear 3 assorted archers

IT defeat archer with sword in the hills of death

4.230AD
abandon Chittagong as the flip risk is too high
found Uaxtun in the west, there is a barb camp now near
defeat a spear, shift units so we can go forward to attack Lahore next

IT mysticism is in, HBR next

5. 250AD
fist army moves towards Lahore

6.260AD
our exploring elite JT, which wasn't attacked at all spots Delhi just behind Lahore :dance:, this isn't too far off for us
to take in the next turnset

move 2 armies next to Lahore defeating 2 archers
defeat 2 spear/ 1 archer, no leader luck for me

7 270AD
since we hardly lose units, the cost is getting staggering high

defeat 3 Indian archers in the east
defeat 1st spear in Indus

take 4 spears in Lahore, 2 archers left there
take out a barb camp and the much needed 25gold, get a slave

IT finally lose a JT to an Indian archer
they land 2 of them next to Calakmul

8.280AD
take out 3 more units and take Lahore, armies heavily wounded

gr17270.jpg


defeat 2 spears and take Indus, keep it
defeat both intruders, defeat an archer near Lahore, so we can draw units away

IT it workers, the archer next to Lahore doesn't attack, but goes after the JT and kills him

9.290AD
the flip risk is far too high to risk 2 armies, move them out and abandon Lahore, that has only the Mausoleum inside
found Mausolleum instead

beat a spear in Tokyo
gr17290.jpg


manage to raze Tokyo with 2nd sword and found Ek Balam instead

IT go 1:1 for the exposed units near Tokyo
continue to play cat and mouse in the mountains with Carthage units

10.300AD
move healed army towards Kolhapur, where the heavily wounded armies move to rest
we should move all 3 armies to claim Delhi

MGL moves towards Dyland, we could rush the pentagon with it
leave this to Greebley
HBR is done in 3

the east with Delhi not far off
gr17300.jpg
 
Fine progress, Vmxa and Rat. :thumbsup:

I don't think it's a gross oversimplification to say that a GA with three towns qualifies as weak.

That was more a comment on the general dislike of early/despotic Golden Ages than on our position here. Obviously going into the GA with three cities is hardly ideal--though by halfway through we had five, IIRC.
 
Well money will be a bit better once we get the GL. We may have a shot at a few turns of no reserach.

Looks like we will also be much stronger after the Pentagon goes up. Now all we need is some knights to do some real damage.
 
IBT : no fights

India starts Sun Tzu

1) 310AD : will rush the pentagon in Kaminalwhat as that town will finish its' sword next IBT
we kill an Indian archer at Mausolleum

IBT : Indians suicide an archer on Mausolleum

2) 320AD : rush the pentagon in Kaminalwhat
we kill a Japanese spear and archer

IBT : the Japanese suicide an archer on Uxmal
5 Indian archers die attacking Mausolleum, but they manage to kill one elite sword

horseback riding -> science to 0 and change scientists to taxmen

Pentagon is finished in Kaminalwhat

3) 330AD : quite uneventful

IBT : 2 reg Indian archers kill an elite JT and a sword in Mausolleum. The Indian archers are not even scratched. :mad:

4) 340AD : sword kills Japanese spear at Lazapa
we kill 3 Nums Waxy
lose a sword to a Num at Waxy

IBT : sword defends against a Num, but loses to another

5) 350AD : elite sword kills an Indian archer at Mausolleum
sword kills Num at Waxy and promotes elite
we kill 3 Japanese archers

IBT : an Indian archer suicides on Mausolleum

6) 360AD : we kill an Indian spear, 2 Indian archers at Mausolleum, a barb horse
we kille 3 Nums losing one sword at Ek Balam

our three armies approach Delhi defended by spears

IBT : lose three slaves to a Carthage warrior
lose a sword to a Num at Waxy

7) 370AD : we kill 5 Japanese archers at Uxmal
sword kills Carthaginian warrior at Ek Balam
elite sword kills Num at Ek Balam
elite sword kills Indian archer at Mausolleum
sword kills Indian archer at Mausolleum

armies kill 4 spears in Delhi and raze the city

just kidding :D

we capture Delhi for 1 gold, a worker and a catapult

IBT : TGL gives us
Philosophy
Code of Laws
Map Making
Polytheism
Currency
The Republic
Monarchy and I revolt

we get 4 turns of anarchy

8) 380AD : nothing

IBT : nothing

9) 390AD : we kill 4 Nums losing 2 swords at Ek Balam

IBT : Gandhi takes back Delhi as I left it unguarded, this will reduce pop and flip risk

10) 400AD : sword kills Num at Waxy
armies kill a spear and 2 archers and retake Delhi

Most of the action is at Ek Balam. The Carthaginian units use to step on the plain tile at Ek Balam, so we can pull out the cats from Lazapa to bomb them and finish them with the swords. There are still 2 turns of anarchy for the next player.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/47099/GR17_AD_400.SAV
 
Good news--the short anarchy especially. :goodjob:
 
great to capture Delhi, let's go round and raze more Indian cities and expand to finally keep Delhi.

the short anarchy is great, would that mean our empire is still considered small?
 
One thing, can we not expose workers. We need those guys. Keep them off the front lines. I would rather see them safely doing less important work, than be lost.

What does it look like for getting MDI's soon enough to be the 4th units in these armies and make them a bit stronger?
 
I think the anarchy length can vary a lot. OTOH, I think we have less than the OCN so in that sense we are not large.

I got it and will continue working on India.

Question: Do we want to spread out our cities behind the front lines (when we have a front line that is - probably after India)? There are barbs in this game and a wider city placement could be done to cover more ground meaning we don't need (as many) units to suppress barbs.

The alternative is to hunt barbs with JT every turn.
 
It would be good to try to expand to incorporate those ivory as soon as we can manage it.
 
lurker's comment: Question, actually. I noticed that you've build the Pentagon, but that you're researching Monotheism. I assume that you have not yet reached Military Tradition. Is MT required for the Pentagon? If so, is this game being played on a mod that allows it to be build without Military Tradition? Or is the only requirement for the Pentagon that you have 3 armies?
 
Yes, three armies only for the Pentagon. It's the Military Academy that requires Military Tradition.

Question: Do we want to spread out our cities behind the front lines (when we have a front line that is - probably after India)? There are barbs in this game and a wider city placement could be done to cover more ground meaning we don't need (as many) units to suppress barbs.

CxxxC might be a good compromise.
 
Preturn: We are in Anarchy so no builds to play with. I kill an Archer with a Javelin and get a Worker. Try to lure the Indian Archers toward Mausolleum so we can get them easier. There is a river that makes it hard to switch units between cities.

IBT: Archers head for Delhi. I can't put units into it because all I have is Armies which is too much risk of a flip.

410 AD: Lose a Sword while attacking an Archer. Lose a second sword attacking the archer (in woods). Lose a third sword vs the other archer in the stack. Very frustrating. We finally kill one of the archers with a 3 hp Jav. We will lose Delhi again. We need regular troops if we want to hold it. Two Armies move on and find Bombay.

IBT: Delhi is captured.
We are now a Monarchy.

420 AD: At 0% science we are +3 gpt. Not so hot. Switch 3 main cities to Markets.
I will also try to get our cities bigger than size 7. Note that the city limit is hurting us here as we have plenty of land but cannot get more towns. Despite our slave count we need more workers. I may build a few. Attack Indian capitol Bombay with Armies.

IBT: Numideans aren't going where I want them to (near our Cats). They could be a real pain.

430 AD: Lose another sword to an Archer. Attack Bombay - It is size 12 so I Raze it - too flip prone even for me. Nets us 8 workers (2 or 3 were in the town already).
Build Quirgua near Japanese territory at the end of our road.

IBT: Indians are building Sun Tzu. Got the Num Mercs to move in the right direction.

440 AD: Kill some units. Lose a sword to a Num Merc.

IBT: Archer kills a Sword in the Mountains.

450 AD: Annoying Num Mercs are proving hard to kill. Get a Leader near India which becomes an Army

IBT:

460 AD: Finally get a whole stack of the Num Mercs - about 1/3 of the known ones.
Attack Bangalore. Sending an Army over toward the Carthage/Japanese front. The other 3 are still near India.

IBT: Stupidly lose a stack of Workers - I simply forgot to deal with a Spear.

470 AD: India got Iron and now has MDI and Pike instead of Archers and Spears.

480 AD: Attack Bangalore again, but will now need to heal. Attack Delhi.

IBT: More worker troubles. At least these I can get back.

490 AD: Capture Delhi we will get Feudalism next turn.

IBT: We have Feudalism.

500 AD: Get a Leader attacking the Num Mercs - Created an Army. Upgraded some swords to MDI for an MDI Army.

Notes:
My play was sub-par tonight. e.g. a rioting town and the lost workers. I would review the towns and such.

We are back up to positive 20 gold at zero sciencee. I also built/ am building aquaducts and Markets. Love cheap Aquas.

India has been sending some troops at us, but not a whole lot. There are 3 armies in the area - Two can go for Bangalore and the last should help defend as we don't have a lot of troops there right now. We need to send more.

Likely there will be another stack of Num Mercs next to our town. We have enough bombardment though that it shouldn't be an issue.

I need to go straight to bed so no pic. I might try to post one later.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/GR17_AD_500.SAV
 
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