GR18-AWM Genocide Variant vs 30 Civs.

[ThERat]

it is a coast...

I have played 5 turns so far, we finally got feudalism, but chivalry will take close to 20 turns

The south is better to handle now since there is only Scandinavia, this will be our chance at making some progress.

 

[choxorn]

I would say it is a coast as it has a river draining into it and I never seen a lake have one.

lurker's comment: In Hawk's SG, that Lake that is right next to the one we started on has a river running into it.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
MM a little, but only minor things
btw, we have 39 cities and 10 armies

IT NP switched off the enemy animation and everything goes a little too fast
no attacks as far as I can tell
Incans finish Sistine

1.1355AD
need to lower science to 30% but we still get feudalism in 3

south:
defeat 3 pikes and raze Uskudar, at least Ottomans got no more horses at this spot
defeat a Viking settler pair and get a settler in position there
take out Viking spear and mace and ping all 3 galleys

east: manage to take out that EW and 1 mace

north:
take out sword and 1 archer and lose a healthy sword against an archer
then proceed to take out 3 spears, we have too few catapults there to do something
decide to take on another sword with e-sword
almost explode when we lose yet another sword to a 2hp archer, this is just nuts

west:
a little further in the west, things are better and we manage to ping quite a few troops and take out 2 mercs and a mace
near Westwall, we dispose 3 maces and a merc and send out the settler under an army
archers are apparently the uber units as we lose a horse to a landed archer

IT Westwall gets attacked by a knight but it is defeated flawless

2.1360AD
south
found our 40th town, called Forty increasing income by 6gpt
take out a mace nearby
move army next to Birka, going after Vikings to take out land there seems logical to me
take care of sword/spear from Vikings, add another Ottoman spear

east: take on a stack of 4 maces and a pike at Hyangsan, take out 3 of them, lose a sword
another spear is taken out there
raze Emar for 2 gold, a Hittite town in the hills

north: Mediawon is threatened by 7 units, but 3 are spears
Pyongsong faces 8 swords and 4 more units, worse is there is a GS next to those stacks and I don't want to move armies out of the cites
sacrifice a sword and horse to take it out

west:
Dyestown and Westwall see many units as usual
take out 2 knights, 4 maces and a merc

IT a knight attacks Dyes town out of the fog and retreats
Vikings are obviously shifting there attention to our new cities and retreat from the mountain range
2 maces attack our settler pack, but both lose
bad news though, as we spot the first knights from Sumeria

3.1365AD
south:
since Vikings moved units, we follow, mountain army move towards Stavanger and takes out a mace on the way
another army moves towards Aydin and more or less confirms that we face a coast in the southeast
raze Birka for 2 gold and then settle Suwon

east: little action this turn, but the knights will come

north: since the stacks did not attack, continue to pound a little and take out a GS, spear, 2 JT's, 2 swords

west: a little breather that allows us to clear some units
take out 2 swords a merc, 1 pike that results in a MGL, send it to Pusan to rush a market once the library is done there next turn
continue to take out pike. LB, impi

IT we go 2:1 on defense losing an exposed spear
th Vikings decide that the mountainous region is nice after all and even drop 2 maces there
Sumer brings 3 knight within range of our cities in the desert, that spells danger
we finally get feudalism, amazingly chivalry will take 22 turns at the moment

4. 1370AD
since we can found a few cities soon, decide to keep the MGL to form a new and better army

west: found Tokwon, it will be a little crammed and risky, but we need to expand to get another army
defeat 8 units and ping some more, lose 2 swords in the process

south: start to attack Stavanger and Aydin taking out 1 pike each, move another settler into position to settle next turn

north: defeat 5 units that try and get to our empty towns
east: defeat a mace and put army into the town that the knights could reach: Hamhung

MM to get chivalry to 19 turns at a slight deficit

IT sometimes you don't know what triggers the AI to attack on many fronts and we go 7:3
Sumer knight however try and grab our empty core

5.1375AD
south: found Feudals
march on towards Stockholm and capture/disband a worker
take out a mace, armies at Stavanger and Aydin heal

east: take out those pesky knights, however lose a sword in the process

west: clear a few units around Westwall and Dyes Town

north: take out 3 units, but we can expect attacks there, a little tricky really

IT we lose 3 units on defense. all tight battles, it's time we get some pikes up

6.1380AD
south: attack Stockhom and the Aydin defeating 3 units, but towns still stand
attack Stavanger and take out 2 pikes, wounded units still inside
take out 2 Ottoman maces in the desert

east: bomb and take out 3 units, sometimes cats really can't make it against maces/pikes
defeat 2 units in Akshak, but fall short of taking the city since a LB is left

north: less units directly at cities
our first maces arrive there, take out 5 units including a settler pair

west: take out 3 units at Westwall and 2 at Dyestown

IT awe go 3:2 on defense, at least a new pike won against a mace

7.1385AD
south:
found Taegwon, a little squeeze since there is a Dutch town nearby, but this will give us another army
take out another pike and Stockholm is no more, nearby hunt down a Viking settler pair
take out 2 wounded maces and manage to raze Stavanger including a settler pair
to top it up, manage to raze Aydin to gain a cat for free
the southeast has a lot of voids right now

east: form a mace army, filled with only 1 unit for now
bomb some units, but don't attack, army needs to heal there

north: take out 4 units, but situation a little tricky there

west: westwall and dyestown as usual surrounded by enemies including knights
take out horse, sword and knight, take out 2 impis + spear near westwall

IT it is clear that Ottomans now want to change the target city which we just built
we go 2:0 on defense

8.1390AD
Vikings have now 13 units in the southern vicinity, move one army back to help out
move another settler into position on ex Ottoman land
move mace army forward, 2 more maces next turn will make that army ready for combat
take out 2 more maces after heavy bombardment from cats

east: take out a red pike and get a MGL
will use it to rush a market in Cheju, take out 3 more units

north and west: stay defensive and take out a mere 2 units

IT Ottoman march on, we go 1:1 on defense and the Russian knight decide Pyongson is a nicer target than Dyestown
the bunch of new units we get leaves us at even gpt at 40% science

9.1395AD
rush market at Cheju
south: found Sugar babe in the southeast, nearby we can clearly spot the southern end of the continent as tundra shows up
a healthy army runs into what is clearly the core of Scandinavia, ending up next to Odense
our now filled mace army steps next to Harlingen
then take out a Viking mace and a landed Spanish archer and get another MGL, since we are still short of 3 cities
move it into our capital

east: take out units

north: lose a mace while taking out 5 units

west: take out 3 maces

IT after a few more quiet moments at the front, things heat up again and we go 6:1 on defense losing a spear
Vikings went after a town even with their 3 hp maces and they lost 3
many units turn up at the borders of our empire
We did occupy a few more cities behind the lines for MP duty, so that might be the reason
we also lose 2 cats exposed since Ottoman decided to turn round

10.1400AD
south: get our cats back since they were not even covered
settle another city Sugar Top

attack Antalya and defeat 1 pike, town should be gone next turn
move southern army towards Copenhagen, those towns a big and we should attack with 2 armies to be able to cover them
spot Viking horses there

our mace army does poorly losing some hp while taking out 2 spears to raze Harlingen

east: decide to rush library in Taejon with our MGL, until we have 2 more towns will take a while
there is a stack with 2 Sumerian knight, take out pike/knight, but the rest is left alone
attack Kirklareli

north: take out 4 units, but lose a mace

west: clear 2 units and get another MGL, send it to the core (maybe rush an Aqueduct in Some Song???)
clear another 4 units there

 

[ThERat]

the situation
chivalry will be due in 10 turns at the moment. we run 40% science at a slight surplus 9gpt and have a little cash extra. We might be able to speed it up at the end. I am also convinced that a few if them don't even have hat tech yet.Vikings for example have horses and iron but they seem to only build pikes/maces.
Knights are spotted by Russia and Sumer so far which is quite fortunate. Celts sees to have switch to maces from GS which is also a blessing.

The south:
Plenty of room to expand once we have taken care of Scandinavia. This will improve our unit support and army support. We have currently 46 cities and 11 armies.

I would think that after chivalry, we should go for monarchy and then revolt. I feel that with the south secured, we should be able to afford the anarchy period.

The east/north
the picture indicates the path from where Sumer knight approach. The eastern army pillaged a road to slow them down but we need more support there.
The north should be stable to be kept while we expand in the south

 

[ThERat]

Our Holiday Roster:
Greebley - up? Out until 26th or 27th Aug
NP -
markh -
ThERat -
vxma - on indefinite skip
Mumpulus - away from 25th Aug til 1st Sep. swap with Greebley?

 

[Northern Pike]

Fine play. With the Scandinavian lands at our mercy a realistic scenario for victory begins to emerge...if no new enemies appear, if the AI doesn't get cav for a long time, if the other continents aren't far ahead of us, etc.

IT NP switched off the enemy animation and everything goes a little too fast
no attacks as far as I can tell

I left battle animations on, so you won't have missed any combat.

 

[Tribute]

I have a question. I've been playing AW for a while now, and it seems that Monarchy would be a good choice for the next government. But your unit support will be basically cut in half. Would it really be worth the change? Your science would probably stop or slow down considerably.

It appears that you have more units than you can support since in the turnset, when a settler->town, you got +6 gpt. Feudalism would definitely help, but there would be war weariness. However, with the money you'd save, lux +10% is a possibility. However, I've never tried Feudalism. And you've probably been in way too much war to stay in Feudalism. Still, it would have been nice.

However, that does not make Monarchy your only choice. You still have Despotism. Do the CAII government switch check and see what happens.

I also see a horse resource for you to take in the south. Horsemen are helpful for taking out landed units and lone injured units and retreating to safety. Also, they're good for scouts or pillagers in slow move stacks entering enemy territory.

 

[vmxa]

NP I would be shocked if the other continent is not ahead of us. If it is more or less as big as this one, they should be ahead as they could not have all been at war the entire game.

 

[vmxa]

Tribute we have already been making horsemen and hence the race for Chiv.

We cannot stay in Despotism as we cannot afford to have the food penalty for the whole game. Monarch will bhe fine as we grow, later we will be so large that we do not pay for unit support.

The one reason why it will hurt more than normal for us is we are not allowed to have slaves. This forces us to make more workers and pay the up keep.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Lurker comment Are you allowed to use F7? The list of wonders is one way to know what unmet enemies are doing. If the other continent is ahead, they will have a bunch of wonders built or being built. I'm just betting they aren't, I think the continent you are on has built most of the wonders. War sometimes drives progress, and the AI rarely puts a huge investment in wiping anyone out anyway, so that doesn't hamper their tech rate. On a super huge map, the beaker cost must be staggering, which is why your opponents aren't running away with it.

 

[firepeoplebb]

Lurkers Coment:
With copenhagen so close to odense the vikings must have expanded more to the west. But still copenhagen is like their third city built so your getting close to the capital.

 

[Northern Pike]

NP I would be shocked if the other continent is not ahead of us. If it is more or less as big as this one, they should be ahead as they could not have all been at war the entire game.

True enough--that's why I wrote "far ahead". The question is whether they're considerably ahead of us, which we take for granted, or unstoppably ahead of us, which the slow tech rate may prevent.

 

[choxorn]

Lurker comment Are you allowed to use F7? The list of wonders is one way to know what unmet enemies are doing. If the other continent is ahead, they will have a bunch of wonders built or being built.

lurker's comment: Yes, they're allowed to use F7, F8, and F11, but F7 will only show you if a wonder has already been built by an opponent you don't know. You can't find out if an opponent you don't know is BUILDING the wonder.

they could not have all been at war the entire game.

I doubt that. There's going to be what, 14, 15 Civs on the other continent, probably a few of them aggresive and strong. They've probably attacked other, weaker nations, and maybe, there could be plenty of wars on the other continent, maybe there could just be a few, but I'm almost certain there was at least one AI War.

 

[vmxa]

choxorn, I was saying they have not been at war the entire time. Our continent has been. Of course there have been some wars. The key work is entire and you have it in your quote.

 

[Tribute]

lurker's comment:
Another continent seems like a pain to beat. Would you have to wait until transports, tanks and infantry?

Your technology and power growth should, in theory, speed up after you get knights and eventually cavalry. One of those armies will rip through about anything. As for the H'wachaa (or however it is spelled), does that inflict fatal (lethal?) bombard on enemy units? Are you planning on using them? Because if they are amassed, they are very, very great units. They might actually make the game too easy if fighting an AI without fast movers.

(I'm very impressed that you're all willing to play maybe even 4 hour long turnsets to finish this game. )

 

[TheOverseer714]

Lurker comment:
Good point about the Korean UU, it could be an awesome aid towards defense, lethal bombardment is great stuff! They can't be used against you if they are attacked, because that destroys them. Park about 10 in a town within the hot zone of enemy attacks and kill the slow movers, with pikes/muskets to intercept fast movers. Meanwhile, a large group covered by an army could make short work of an enemy cities' defenders, move army into empty city, raze, move back to cover the Whatchamacallits, next turn move onto next target.

 

[Northern Pike]

Another continent seems like a pain to beat. Would you have to wait until transports, tanks and infantry?

By the time we get to any other continent the enemies there will probably have infantry, so yes. These maximum-size AW games normally last long enough for tanks and even MA to be useful, and this one is going more slowly than most.

Conquering overseas continents in AW indeed takes a lot of RL time, but it's often strikingly quick in terms of game-turns.

As for the H'wachaa...Are you planning on using them?

It'll depend on the timing. If we're still conducting static defense on any of our fronts when they become available, then obviously they'll be very useful, and a lot of fun. If we've taken the offensive, they'll have a much smaller role. We depend on advancing quickly in these games when it finally becomes possible, and trying to integrate range-one bombardment units into the attack slows things down too much.

 

[Greebley]

Just got back. I can grab the game. Haven't had time to read, but I noticed the greebley up? above.

 

[Greebley]

I got a chance to read through the posts. Some comments:

1) I would be surprised if the AI was far ahead of us given this is monarchy. I think monarchy vs emperor difficulty makes a fairly big difference for this.

2) Note that the tech is slow because it was specifically chosen to be so in the first games we played - a very conscious choice. The slower tech gives us more time to expand and set up an empire without the AI racing off to tanks before we can establish ourselves. I think this slower tech works well with AW, but would be too low for a normal game. Upping the tech rate would make the game more challenging but probably less fun and also make the game more dependent on getting the Great Library.

3) Completely agree on Monarchy next. We need it. I may also work on Aquaducts in some cities for the additional support. Once we are a Monarchy we will be to the point where a size 7-12 city is better than 2 size 6 cities and we may consider city pruning.

I will work on expanding southward and growing. Tundra isn't the best of terrains but additional city support will help our eventual switch.

 

[Tribute]

The Hwacha could be used to hold a front while another is being expanded. It could also be used to give you time to build city improvements. 20 turns of building Hwacha and pikemen/knights and the next 20 for a bunch of libraries and marketplaces could work out well for you guys.