GR18-AWM Genocide Variant vs 30 Civs.

[Northern Pike]

Yes, we'd certainly want to make a lot of preparations before mobilizing. I raised it as a possibility for the last hundred turns or so, not something we need to do now.

I forget, can one build an aquaduct if one has already started it and one mobilizes?

I don't know; I think I've only played one game, succession or solo, in which mobilization was used. I do recall the trick whereby, although naval and air units don't qualify for the extra shields in mobilization, the player can just build a ground unit until the turn before completion, and then switch to a naval/air unit without losing any shields.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: You may want to also consider going Fascism/Communism, due to being killed by unit support.

 

[markh]

change Cheju to palace

IBT : lose a privateer on defense
just a 3-unit landing at BB

Some more AIs start US

1) 1860AD : catch a Hittite galley carrying their last settler and the Hittites are destroyed finally

ha, try to settle a new city and get the message "Too Many Cities", so we have to raze cities to be able to fill our continent.

ship the first 2 armies towards the brown borders in our West

IBT : Electricity -> Medicine

several landings at BB

2) 1862AD : clear the landings, getting two leaders from it

the brown borders in our West is the Russian capitol and just a three tile island, land two armies there

there must be some fighting going on as we can found a new town

IBT : 2 landings at BB

3) 1864AD : clear the landings

Privateers find the Carthaginian capital just a few tile NW of the Russian island

raze Bryansk and the Russians are out

found a new town on our continent

IBT : lose a privateer on defense

4) 1866AD : load 4 armies and set sail for the Carthaginian capitol
North of that island there are some purple borders

IBT : one landing at BB

Gandhi lands a settler and a jumbo in our W

5) 1868AD : clear the landing and get another leader

IBT : five landings at BB this time

6) 1870AD : get a leader clearing the landings

IBT : lose a privateer on defense

7) 1872AD & 8) 1874AD : lost as there was a loss in powersupply and had to play from autosave

9) 1876AD : raze Sulcis and the Carthaginians are out of the game
raze Salamanca

found two new towns on our continent

clear a landing at BB

IBT : two landings at BB

10) 1878AD : clear the landing and get a leader

raze Grand River and found a new town on our continent

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/47099/GR18-1878AD.SAV

 

[ThERat]

lucky we found more Islands to clear. I will try and send out a few navy units in search of the big other continent.

Hopefully we can get sci methods with ToE and Hoover fast.

Got it

 

[Northern Pike]

Good work, and fantastic Leader luck.

We'll want to get a settler to that silk island as fast as possible, and rush a harbour there.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
MM so we get more scientists, we currently have now 237 and around 200 towns
I think we can abandon a few cities in the crammed core now that we hit the limit

I would love to settle the other Island with a 3rd lux so we can lower luxury to 10%

IT that bombardment all around is painful to watch

1.1880AD
send 1 more army and a 2 cav army + settler over to the Iro land, advance on them as well
my first aim will be to improve the coastal towns for more shields as we need a better navy.
I swap settler builds for now as we have plenty of them (35) and unit support is high enough

IT AI lands units way east in the mountains
we get 3 more frigates

2.1882AD
raze Allegheny, advance towards their capital, I think we can soon settle there to get a new lux
found a city on the east coast for future missions from there
simply try my luck and we get yet another city

get rid of all 6 landed troops no leader though
our mobile hwacha force gets rid of 2 MoW, 2 caravels and 2 frigates

IT this time quite a few units are dropped in the east

3.1884AD
attack Niagara Falls, but there are more than 6 units inside, spot 2 more Iro cities
drop my army settler load

defeating the 2 stacks of around 20 units gives us 3 MGL (we now have 37 armies at 211 cities)
spot an Arab landing with 2 cavs and 1 settler

increase science a notch to get sci methods in 2

MM give us 270 scientists by now

IT Arabs attack our empty convoys and sink 1 galleon, they lose a frigate
English join in, but lose against another galleon

4.1886AD
can turn science back to 40%. sci methods in 1 still

raze Oil Springs and we get our new city, Silk City, sacrifice a frigate and cash rush a harbor for 180gold
attack more but fail to raze Oil Springs again after taking out 6 more units. I guess they will now move out all their units, that a gamble of course

sink an English full convoy
send a new small convoy over to the Iro Island

IT due to a mistake by me (left a redlined amry alone we lose 1 army to the Iros)
2 English MoW sink against our frigates, redlining them...we need to sail back for healing
we get sci methods (check but the palace prebuild is still 13 turns away)

5. 1888AD
go for a full scale attack, take out Niagara Falls and Cattaraugus
it pays off as this message pops up

replace the razed towns with our own
switch our capital to ToE, will take another 7 turns (capital switched from almost done army, now a 30spt)
time industrialization to coincide with it at 30% science

a frigate that I rushed in the east spots French borders there
we need a convoy there soonish, thus need to rush frigates and galleons there
(will use new units to partially rush frigates + galleon)

IT more units are dropped

6. 1890AD
well, without landed armies, there isn't that much to do
move 2 convoys westwards from the Iro Island to find enemy land
deal with the landings

Our science farms are slowly taking shape as we have now 320 scientists,
manage to drop science to 10% for industrialization in 5 (we make 280gpt now)

IT our French explorer frigate is taken out
we defeat an Arab frigae with another exploring frigate

7.1892AD
rush galleon and frigate in the east and we are ready with a small convoy next turn

spot a first ironclad...no good
defeat the few landed French units and sink 2 convoys

reduce science to 0%

8.1894AD
bad news is that the Arabs are blocking that harbor, thats why I would like another city up
lux back to 20%

need to deal with landings next to our silk city, we better ship more units over
for now the armies can deal with it

sink 3 convoys from Byzantines, 2 fully loaded

decide to found a second town on the other continent for a second harbor
abandon one of those pretty useless hilly towns that could never be used as science farms anyway

we can run a 0% science and even employ some taxmen

9.1896AD
all three luxes back online again due to ships disappear
lux back to 10%

one of the 2 convoys we have sailing west straight, spots a border....hopefully we can make a landfall
again sink 2 caravels, a galleon and a convoy, a manage to take out a ironclad as well

IT English attack our convoy but lose without doing any damage...

10.1898AD
take out some landings at the Iro Island
defeat quite a few navy units near the AI landing zone, its a perfect killing ground for our hwachas

land at a 3 nations zone by chance....
then spot another part of the continent, closer to us, Chinese land

in the east, the convoy will reach French land next turn

I think we can stop worker production for now, the core is railed and the fringe setup nicely for farming (where you do not
need so many tiles worked anyway)
we should try and establish Iro land as the base from where we attack the enemy. as a hopping Island
Tipster on the mainland is our starting point (currently a galleon filled with workers inside to ship over)


ToE is done in 2 as is industrialization, just nice. We can decide whether to go for RP in 7 turns after that or nationalism
I think we should first get RP

first picture below, the AI landing zone and one convoy to French land

second image shows the Iro land and the way west

 

[markh]

It will be quite a race to conquest. ~120 turns and we have to raze about 300 cities.

 

[vmxa]

Yes, it was so tough at the start and it will be a bugger to make up the lost time. Just hope the other landmass does not have lots of mountains, jungles and such to slow down the attacks.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Just make sure you raze 3 cities per turn and you'll have it in the bag.

Hey, BTW, who's dead?

 

[Greebley]

I see that the turns are going quicker now we have cleared our continent. Good work on getting a third Lux. That will help.

I wonder if we should consider Ironclads? They can be upgraded to destroyers. Maybe if they are fast enough - they are the cheapest tech but still at 7 turns at the moment. In any case it would be a short delay, but might lead to sea domination earlier when upgraded to destroyers - if we want to take that route. If they are not fast to get though I think we should skip.

Short term, I agree RP should definitely be next and use civil engineers for finishing aquaducts if we are planning on mobilization.

BTW, Nampo and Some Song are both at 19 shields. They will hopefully be at 20 when we rail their squares, but I would check/prioritize getting them there.

I would also MM cheju for max shields (even merge a worker and add another mp) to get hoover as fast as possible.

Roster:
Greebley - On Deck
NP
markh
ThERat - Just Played
Mumpulus - Up

 

[vmxa]

Ironclads have low movement, unless you boosted them for this map, so they are not able to get anywhere. You seldom have the cash to spend on upgrades in these games as most is used to cover research or key rushes.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good progress.

we should try and establish Iro land as the base from where we attack the enemy. as a hopping Island

Definitely. We can't ship-chain, but we can land units on Silk Island, send them across it by rail, and put them back on galleons heading west, all in the same turn. That'll cut three turns off the trip to the enemy continent.

I believe in strong escorts for our transport fleets, but are we overdoing it? With twenty frigates and five galleons we're still building mostly frigates.

We shouldn't start attacking cities on the enemy continent with single cav armies. Either the army approaching the continent from the east should join the one already there, or they should both just explore.

The English look like a good target, since they're still holding their cities with musketmen.

We should certainly abandon and replace our inland size-one hill towns, as mentioned by Rat.

It's probably worth rushing a harbour in Move East or Tried My Luck, so that the frigates we rush on that coast are veterans.

 

[Mumpulus]

Got it.

I will have a MM feast, and try to make some progress overseas.

I'll take Hoover techs from ToE, then RP. I'd also go for industrialization after that.

 

[ThERat]

I'll take Hoover techs from ToE, then RP. I'd also go for industrialization after that.

well, we get industrialization the moment we get ToE...thus you can go for RP while building factories (maybe rush with MGL's) and switch the palace prebuild to Hoover. I would swap nationalism for now, we need destroyers and especially airfields fast...as fast as we can.

I am certain with more science farming we should be able to get to 6 tun research or less

 

[Mumpulus]

IT
The army near Liverpool gets attacked by a single cavalry.

1) 1900AD
Kill some ancient units that landed, no leaders. Some MM and improvements.

IT
Industrialization is in, ToE is in and gives us AT and Electronics. A coal source runs out. We loose an empty galleon I forgot to cover.

2) 1902AD
Science to 90% and RP will be in 6. Hire scientists all over to get that down to 5 turns. Kill another two landed stacks.

IT
We loose 3 frigates and a healthy army on hills in Arab lands.

3) 1904AD
Same landing spot clearing. Rush some boats because we're going to land in more force to make progress.

IT
Loose another frigate and sink 2 or 3 MoWs.

4) 1906AD
Get two leaders while clearing the usual landings. Science can go down to 50% at -104gpt.

IT
A Byzantine ironclad sinks another empty galleon.

5) 1908AD
The usual clearing of landings, and sinking of ships that we can reach. Artillery will help a lot to keep our coasts clear

I'm turning it over here. Sorry I took so long for only playing 5 turns (I started out ok with 4 turns in a row, but then got swamped in work). If I anticipate not having enough time to complete play within a few days, I'll ask for skips from now on...

> Save <

 

[Northern Pike]

We should have thought this through earlier...but anyway, we shouldn't try to establish a serious beachhead in France at this point. We aren't strong enough to split up our overseas landing forces, which has slowed us down in other games, and cash-rushing all our naval units for use in that (apparently dangerous) ocean would drain our treasury excessively. The cav army already in transit for France might as well land there, if it isn't lost at sea, but after that we should shut that front down and concentrate on the other approach to the enemy continent.

The galleon carrying the cav army to France has become separated from its escorting frigates, which are fortified, so we'll need to correct that before hitting Enter.

With RP just two turns off, the time for mass merges of our expensive worker force isn't far away.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got the game.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Move the boats mentioned by NP. Switch to factories because we won't be able to build them if we mobilize and we seem to have enough Cav for the moment. Double production is worth a lot even in 2/3 corrupt cities.

IBT: A largish Portuguese forces with 4 infantry, 4 Rifles, 3 Guerilla, and a Knight. I haven't seen Infantry mentioned before.

1910 AD: Kill off Landing with Armies on the continent.
MM Hoover a turn earlier by going negative food.
MM to get RP at 40% science

IBT: Universal Sufferage is Completed by Byzantines. Went for Corporation. I think we need to get to destroyers and Transports as fast as possible.

1912 AD: Got a Leader vs Cav landed on the Island An Army.
Get a second leader on a small landing on our main continent. 2 Leaders in 5 elite wins.

IBT: AI decides we are worth attacking. One Army I just landed goes to 1 HP. Another army on a mountain loses 8 HP to an attacking cavalry before killing it. It does very little damage to the AI. Some ships attacked.

1914 AD: We can rescue the 1 hp Army but I suspect the rest are a loss (unless our boats are sunk) I think we should have added a 4th unit upon landing right away.

My ship decoy plan worked perfectly so it is worth a picture. There were Egyptian ships bombing the heck out of NPike'o. So I emptied that city and moved the units into Ash Wednesday (the other Armies are covering roading workers). The Egyptians changed targets and now there are 11 ships I should be able to sink.

IBT: Another frigate sunk.

1916 AD: Kill a small landing. Still retreating the Frigates and Galleys for now as they are getting killed.

IBT: Two more frigates down. We really need Destroyers.

1918 AD: Kill off a landing of Indians. I have been doing some Abandon and replace of temporary towns.

IBT: Our final army is killed off. It wasn't attacked last turn oddly enough. Even on a mountain it just has too few HP.
I think part of the problem is that I have AI patrols on and that makes armies more suseptable to attacks.

Not only that but an Ironclad sinks the France Galley (it came up top because it premoted to Vet) This means every Army that was sent over and landed, none made it back alive.

We get Hoover.

Our production is sabataged. Actually if I had been thinking about it, I would have removed the Intel Agency entirely since presumably the AI couldn't get to us either to sabatage us.

1920 AD: I am able to move units to the island so I continue to do so. The factories are finally completing so I can start building Infantry Armies. We have 3 unused Armies that will be filled with 3 infantry (four when they land), but that will take a bit. I think NP will start the invasions rather than I.

IBT: Minor landing.

1922 AD: Another shipment of troops to the island. It now has enough of our UU to sink 4 ships. I am bringing over more Galleons to cross the oceans when we are ready for that.

IBT: I build pretty much my first unit - an Infantry. Have been building Factories so no time for units.
Pusan has 54 shields which I MM to 50 for a Galleon every turn. It is the 3rd town to get its Factory.

1924 AD: Link up 5 more galleons with the current 2 for the long trip across sea guarded by most of our frigates, more will hopefully join later.

IBT: Minor Landings. We get attacked by a Caravel (our big ship stack).

1926 AD: I am really enjoying our UU and our ability to sink ships. I haven't discussed it, but we are sinking about 5 every turn on average.

IBT: Lose 3 more boats heading back to the jumping off point for the invasion of the other continent. Man-o-war and Ironclad will attack without hesitation and England seems to have a lot of Man-o-wars.

1928 AD: Another leader.

IBT: Nother Frigate lost.

1930 AD: Boats reach safety in Western Shores.
Notes:
Our initial crossing was completely wiped out - all 3 Armies gone.

With attack 4 ships cruising the ocean, transportation across seas is very perilous. The Man-of-war's and Ironclads will attack any size stack. We have 4 Frigates and 5 galleons left in Western Shores on the island. Man-of-wars definitely prowl outside the city. 5 Galleons will carry 4 Armies (I consider the final unit a must) across the sea. 3 Cavalry and 1 Infantry army I believe can survive across the sea and start doing damage now. The question is do we risk trying to cross when we have the 4 infantry (the 4th will be made next turn, on the 3rd turn they will land on the island and make it to western shores)

1) Launch now. I would see how many attacks western shores is getting from Man-of-Wars. Use Frigates to bombard them and send them home. I think 4 Frigates should be enough to survive the crossing but there is some risk we lose them all. I think I would base the decision on the amount of bombardment.

2) Wait for Destroyers. I did build Factories in coastal towns. Once we have Destroyers, I think we can outproduce and dominate the sea. I have not seen any from the AI yet.

I debated going for Ironclads, but decided we were too close to destroyers to bother.

When I played I was hurrying the Aquaducts along with civil engineers, since we were planning on mobilizing at some point.
One advantage of completing the Aquaducts is we could start worker merges. We have 255 workers now which could be a lot of extra science, but it IS costing us time to get to Destroyers. Not an easy decision to make and we should discuss.

Note that our ferry to the island itself has only 1 Frigate and has not been attacked.

Currently the city that has completed its factory is producing Galleons that it can make 1 per turn. I don't think Frigates worth while to build at this point.

In general, I went for factories for longer term gain rather than unit building. We will be pretty strong once they complete.

On mobilization, there are lots of towns doing 2 turn infantry, Artillery. Mobilization won't allow most of these cities to reach 80 shields needed to make them in one turn, so I am not sure it is going to be a benefit. Mobilization could add 26 shields with Factory (12 + center). Soul at 56 barely makes it to 82 shields. Every other town will be at most 52 shields and 26 makes 78 for no benefit in unit production. There will be some cities with less than 40 shields that will be helped, but I think heading for Tanks fast is of better use right now. The math just doesn't work out well (This may be the reason I don't for mobilization).

We have 110 turns left and destroyers are 15-20 turns away and Tanks+flight are 3 techs past that. When we get tanks and flight, we get our free tech (50% chance modern armor will be 1 tech closer, 25% chance we get mech infantry, 25% we can start the UN).

Worker Actions:
I spent a decent amount of time on paying attention to these. I had 3 goals:
1) I used CivAssist II to find cities working unimproved tiles. By the final turn, all cities had improved tiles. Some towns have (fish) after their name because they are using unimproved fish tiles.
2) One thing I like to do is automate Jungle/Marsh clearing rather than doing it manually. This works much better if every square is roaded, else the idiot automation will decide to move onto a square one turn and then decide to go somewhere else the next. If every square is roaded, then automation works for the most part. I suggest the next player automate a whole bunch of workers and watch them go. Use the "automate clear marsh/jungle/forest" of course so they stop when all jungle is cleared.
3) Roads/Rails on all coastal squares allows our UU to get anywhere to sink boats. Also rails make it so coastal squares are harder to bombard with boats (require 2 hits).

So my recommendation is to automate some 150 workers to quickly clear jungles next turn (we just finished the roading too), and the rest can work on coasts and improving squares near towns.

In the picture below you can see 12 Armies able to cross. We have 2 unused armies I would use for Infantry.

I did not try to wake up the numerous units in towns - cavalry mostly on MP duty. Many units are fortified near the capitol. I use the H key to send units home when not in use

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/14765/GR18-1930AD.SAV

 

[Greebley]

Decisions to discuss
Do we send across 4 Armies now?
I think we may be able to make it if Bombardment on Western Shores is light enough. I would risk it and start razing towns. Send 1 Infantry, and 3 Cav Armies, along with the 4th member of the armies. Next player can judge though based on Man of Wars (try to bombard to send home so we can get across). We will be ready in 3 turns.
Civil Engineers - Keep or switch to scientists? I think I would stay on track with the aquaducts with the idea that in about 10 turns with the jungles cleared and aquaducts finished (I tried to make most under 20 turns when I started so 10 left) we merge in and grow our science towns by 150 workers or so. We should keep at least 60-100 for pollution and general maintenance. I think this boost in science will offset the fact we are not getting science now.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good work starting factories--obviously the right choice.

Thanks for the detailed account of where we stand and what we're doing.

I've got it, but I won't start playing for a day or two, so there's plenty of time for everyone to submit their opinions on the points Greebley has raised.