Grammar, Style and the Colopedia

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Kendon, Nov 24, 2020.

  1. Fürstbischof

    Fürstbischof Chieftain

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    I don't know but I fear that - if done automatically - it might want to keep the most recent changes of both branches. Unfortunately, there are way too many text changes involved to manually decide on a case-by-case basis if we're in a hurry...

    Easier said than done.:sad: Although I've made some tests I haven't been able to retrieve a set of text files of master from last year yet which I'd use for comparison with the branch Large_Rivers to clearly identify all differences. A better tool than Winmerge would help, too. :lol:

    I work only with text files from the branch Large_Rivers.
     
  2. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    From now on any changes I make will go into Large Rivers.

    I try to download frequently, if only so that the German text I’m translating is the most recent. The main branch folder I’m using right now is from March 27, 2021.

    Large Rivers is suggested in March 2020, a little over a year ago, and really gets going in October, so we don't need to worry about what happened before that.

    28 documents were last changed two years ago, so it should be possible to replace all those from the main branch whenever it has updates. A further 29 are five months ago, each of them ‟Text Improvements from Kendon”, so again more recent changes in the main branch should be easy to commit

    That leaves 23 documents where Large Rivers text could be different from the main branch. Looking at the comments I’d guess several of those might not be big changes into Large Rivers, though main branch might show new translations, for example.

    There are 9 where Large Rivers has recent updates: still a big job manually, but more manageable than everything all over again.

    It's good you do so much that I can’t. I’m getting a practical appreciation for how this is, and always has been, a real team effort.
     
  3. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    English text updates are all going into the river_merge branch now. Earlier the main branch had its update completed and those documents were transferred to large_rivers.

    There were some glitches but eventually it got done. We’ll know how successful it’s all been when the next release happens.

    Right now I’m just finished reviewing some features added to Events. Otherwise changes are technical, taking out placeholder text for Italian and Spanish translations which I understand will now get their own folder, as is done for Russian.

    As far as translating to Russian is concerned almost all my changes have been stylistic, making the English more colloquial, so the meaning remains the same. If it was already translated into Russian it should still be good.

    The exception is from line 2607 ‟Commander, a frightened Native waits humbly” up to line 3059 ‟Captain, the ship is sinking!” where the original German had a more detailed story and the English now shows that.

    The line numbers will change as I delete placeholder lines in the first half of the document. Updating the Russian for those few events is a creative choice, but it does give the characters added personality.
     
  4. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Prince

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    @Kendon , thanks) but I won't use the previous translation into Russian. There are a lot of mistakes and incorrect translations, it's easier to translate again.
     
  5. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    I've translated the German ReadMe into English. It's committed into river_merge.

    The German might have two typos: capital G in Mr. ZorG and and extra "p" in Ramstormp.

    As usual I've done my best to keep the original personality but in colloquial English. It's always good to take a look and make sure that the meaning remains as intended.
     
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  6. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    I can find both (US) color and (UK) colour in the text descriptions.

    The non-text seems to be in US English (colored cloth), but the mod refers to 'coloured cloth' (UK), and descriptions contain both versions.

    It is not normally a problem for people from the UK since they are used to seeing both versions, but Americans often think it is a misspelling.
     
  7. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    Well, but if we would like to make this sound "immersive and authentic", we would need to use the UK version everywhere. :dunno:
    In those days, Americans of British origin simply were speaking British English.
     
  8. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    Which is 100% fine with me, but currently there is a mix of both.

    There is a school of thought that American English has diverged less from 16th/17th century English than modern English spoken in the UK.
     
  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    Fully understood that and also was not going to argue about it. :)

    It is simply a slopiness that can be corrected by "search & replace" in Notepad++ within seconds.
    Just needed to know / discuss which variant we should chose.

    @Kendon:

    Would you like to take care of it?
    Simply because you work on the text files anyways.

    As I said, you can simply use "search & replace"
    (Take care however to "search & replace" lower case and upper case separately.)
     
  10. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    I would suggest using American spelling as much as possible.

    Everything about the game is American ie Civilization (US) and not Civilisation (UK), Colonization (US) and not Colonisation (UK)

    I know it is not important, but it would be nice to have consistency.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  11. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    In TAC team had tried extremely hard to write authentic and immersive texts that at least felt historic and old.
    (Of course we did never overexagerate that and tried to write extreme 15th century English / or extreme 15th century German because hardly anybody would understand it anymore.)

    But in some texts, especially the old German text from TAC, there is a lot of this "historic flavour" to be heard - and that is awesome for me.
    (The old German TAC texts are often really written in extremely atmospheric and also a bit funny old language. With the new RaR / WTP texts we started getting a bit more sloppy but still tried.)

    With the English texts we could simply not achieve this "historic flavour" as we could with German.
    Simply because our English is not good enough ...

    -----

    I can still laugh myself to death, when the King shows up and tells me in extremely flavoured old German that his beloved horse has gotten syphilis and ...
    (I do not even try to translate it in such a flavoured old English ...)

    -----

    @Kendon:

    You know best which style you have chosen. :thumbsup:
    (Flavoured old British English or modern easy to understand US English)

    Thus simply use the version that fits to it best and you like most. :dunno:
     
  12. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    I'm using "coloured" and "flavour", and have already made hundreds if not thousands of changes for similar words so I would need a good reason to reverse that. Thus "colored" was a sloppy mistake on my part.

    Thank you for having an eagle eye. It would help me to know where "colored" occurred. I can do a systematic search but there are 80 text documents so narrowing it down is a big time saver.

    I notice on the settlement screen at the bottom it's coloured cloth.

    I'm Canadian. Our spelling is mid-Atlantic. I do try to keep an old-time flavour with a few intentional anachronisms, most of which are in the original German. A lot of the early immigrants were German because the Thirty Years War was so violent. Each culture has its own inscrutable idioms. That's my excuse for a certain amount of inconsistency.
     
  13. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    Honestly, I am sorry I brought it up. It is not important.

    Yieldinfo.xml

    Dyeing is the process of applying colors to fabrics. A human practice for over three thousand years, it enabled the natural white of silk, wool and cotton to be enhanced with a varied spectrum
     
  14. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    Why not simply use "Search in files" in Notepad++ ??? :confused:
    (The tool will show you all lines you need to correct within seconds.)
     
  15. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    I’ve made some corrections in the Events text document using Visual Studio. @Nenos and @Nightinggale pointed out a word is cut off in the trading post event. I’ve ended the last phrase with ‟support the construction,” cutting ‟and gain an advantage.” Then the words fit the box without scrolling. It’s line 2511.

    I’ve also done four changes at lines 2762, 2912 and 3237. If anything goes wrong that should be easy to find.

    However, now that I’ve written the comment and am ready to Commit All, Git Changes – Mod gives me a message.

    Git failed with a fatal error.
    Git failed with a fatal error.
    error: open(‟.vs/Mod/v16/Browse.VC.opendb”): Permission denied
    fatal: Unable to process path.vs/Mod/v16/Browse.VC.opendb

    In the Error List it wants me to FindQt4.cmake, which I did – Qt 4.7.4 – but I don’t know how to add it to Visual Studio.
     
  16. XSamatan

    XSamatan Warlord

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    I'm in the middle of the first 2.0 game and the new text elements are fantastic! Thanks for your work and improvement to WtP!

    As a little nitpick - in many occasions I feel like the old, in most times short phrases of the last versions don't fit.

    eg.
    TXT_KEY_ACHIEVE_FIRST_CATHEDRAL_TEXT
    <English>You have built your first cathedral.[NEWLINE][NEWLINE]The Governor's fear.....
    compared to
    Die Gottesfurcht des Gouverneurs....

    Could you think about removing those short headers? The achievement's title and the new, beautiful texts alone should be enough for players to know why they receive that particular achievement.

    Regards
    XSamatan

    PS: I'd offer to provide a version of CIV4GameText_Achievements_utf8 with those headers removed if that would help
     
  17. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    I agree. I’ve been changing the headers to make them more like newspaper headlines, but if they weren’t there and the story text used the extra space that should also reduce the scrolling needed.

    The initial main work on Achievements was done by @Fürstbischof. If taking the headers out is okay with him, it’s all right with me.

    As for your kind offer to do the necessary programming changes, you know how to do something I don’t which means it could get done without causing a lot of unnecessary excitement when I accidentally discover a new creative way to crash the game.
     
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  18. Fürstbischof

    Fürstbischof Chieftain

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    These are leftovers of the original English texts which were due to be deleted. The newly translated German texts have an entirely different style and a new headline. The information given by the original English text, usually how many XX, is still given in the text which shows up in the game log.

    Actually I'd been working the last evenings with this file which is now done. The file already committed.

    Thank you for your offer, but it's already taken care of. :)
     
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  19. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder Supporter

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    Thanks. :hug:
     
  20. Fürstbischof

    Fürstbischof Chieftain

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    A larger pop-up for achievements would be nice to have, so that scrolling is less of an issue.
    They're now gone. Yep, the achievement texts were entirely changed by translating the German texts to English. Now the texts finally match what is shown by the achievement graphics.

    But there is still the open question what is to be done re capitalisation. We've spent a lot time de-cap key words and also headlines. Now I've seen that you started to re-cap all words in headlines which is for Europeans an unusual sight. Is this mostly an AE issue? Just curious how to handle this in the future

    If we aren't going to translate to French that file is almost done. But there are still so many files which are still not finished...
     

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