Greatest Leader of the 20th Century
- Thread starter Fuschia
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Tabasco Sauce
King
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FDR's New Deal is over rated. WW2 brought the American economy out of the depression.
MjM
Deity
It's short for Milk.
And without the New Deal, America wouldn't have been able to fight World War II as successfully, also, when in the worst Depression in human history, I think it worked quite well.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
No it isn't. They were ruthless fascist dictators that controlled their populace with a police state bred on fear. They deserve mention as infamous murdering dictators not great leaders.
And seriously, Hitler? C'mon. He ran Germany for 11 years and at the end of it his entire country was occupied by foreign armies. Putting aside all his other atrocities, that alone really doesn't strike me as very impressive.
Now FDR, that was a great leader. He turned a country around from its worst depression into an industrial powerhouse, won WWII on two fronts, improved labor laws, started social security, and had the integrity to limit the length of office of the President even though he himself served more than two terms.
And he managed to do all that without killing his own people or turning his country into a fascist dictatorship. That's true leadership.
Emperor2
Capitalist Missionary
WHOO, REAGAN!!!! ROCK ON, MAN!!!!!!!
Godwynn
March to the Sea
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WHOO, REAGAN!!!! ROCK ON, MAN!!!!!!!
We asked for Greatest.
Emperor2
Capitalist Missionary
And I provided. Greatest (human) leader of all history, ESPECIALLY the 20th Century. How many people can beat a communist empire without waging war?
dutchking
Deity
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Yes. For example, just today forty seven million elderly and disabled Americans rely on Social Security for 50-90% of their income. Without it we'd have forty million people living in cardboard boxes.
Godwynn
March to the Sea
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Tell me, who was the greatest non-human leader since you decided to point that out to me?
MjM
Deity
The USSR was going to implode sooner or later anyway, Reagan just got all the glory of it.
nonconformist
Miserable
The answer is thus:
Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev, who many of the old-schoolers amongst you will know is my personal hero.
The introduction of Glasnost, which alloweed freedom of speech in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics which was almost untinkable considering the precedents; Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev. Perestroika, the allowance of more liberal ecoonomic policies, a step towards capitalism. The end of the murderous and imperialistic Afghan War. The destruction of the Berlin Wall.
Yes, Gorbachev was truly the hero of the cold War, and truly deserving of his Nobel Peace Prize.
Much More than Ronald Raygun, murderer of Nicaragua, traitor to Iran, and tyrant of South America.
Integral
Can't you hear it?
Ike pwns Reagan. Every time.
Using my little metric of "Peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice. Balanced budgets would be a nice plus," let's see how they do:
Peace:
[x] Ike got us out of Korea
[ ] Reagan sold arms to Iran to fund contras in Nicaragua
Easy taxes:
[x] Ike made balanced budgets a higher priority than tax cuts. However, he made several structural changes to the CEA. He also knew where to put tax money to good use. See Interstate Highway System.
[x] Reagan had fun here, but it also rabidly expanded the national debt.
Tolerable administration of justice:
[x] Ike fought McCarthyism behind the scenes, insitutited several Civil Rights Acts (which were dwarfed by the 1960s legislation) and moved to support desegregation, albeit not as forcefully as some wished.
[ ] Reagan: see Iran-Contra affair
Balanced the budget:
[x] Ike maintained a budget surplus for most of his tenure.
[ ] Reagan never saw a budget surplus.
No contest. Also, Ike made smarter investments than Reagan. (see infrastructure, highways)
Count
Ike: 4
Reagan: 1
Ike wins.
Tongue in cheek, people. Eisenhower wasn't perfect, but he did a pretty good job. Better than Reagan in any case.
George2816
Emperor
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Hitler of course! (Well if he didn't kill lots of jews!)
Emperor2
Capitalist Missionary
Jesus.
Nonconformist: Garbochev was a reformer. Reagan took advantage of that and used it to bring the whole system down.
Integral: The way I see it, we didn't need to get out of Korea, we needed to push inward.
Second: Reagan lowered the personal tax bracket by over 40%, and the debt was only due to the increased Military spending, which was nessesary to bring down USSR.
Third: I'm not a McCarthyist (fair trial really is very important), but I think Reagan's funding of the contras was more important. We had to get some off0hand moneey to fund the contras, to beat the commies, and if the congress wasn't going to let us, we needed to find some way to do it. As long as it isn't severly harming the welfare of the people, I don't see a problem with it.
Budget: Had to fund military, it was more important.
Lightning Count
Chieftain
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I'm leaning to Teddy Roosevelt. His progressive policies such as the Square Deal curbed the decadence of the late 19th century by busting trusts and mandated more honest business practices such as properly labeling drugs and foodstuffs and good meat processing sanitation. He was also a forerunner of environmentalism by setting aside forest spaces for the national parks. He was an important transitory figure between the 19th and 20th centuries.
Bast
Protector of Cats
Bill Clinton?
Godwynn
March to the Sea
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He was better than Ray-gun.
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