Greecemod: Not a Byzwank, Promise (EU4 althist mod creation/discussion thread)

Hmm Idea regarding Italia.

Instead of a Monarch it should be a Republican Dictatorship, with possible decisions or something to make it turn into a monarchy later, probably after its independence/takes rome.

I feel it fits the rome a bit better and avoids the trap of "all muslim states are only monarchies" trap.
 
Well, I was thinking of a semi-large empire with a distant colony having independent desires. To take away one-third of a nation's provinces is not really a good way of doing that.
 
The point of Rome being a monarchy isn't because muslim=dictatorship, I just want the ability of a Roman Emperor in this timeline. :(

I comprimised a lot on this idea with SK by letting him rewrite Celtia, but I kind of want to put my foot down on this. I want emperor plox.
 
And im putting my foot down I DON'T want an empire, The Roman Empire has been done to death.

Long live the Republic!

Senātus Populusque Rōmānus!

(ultimately it is SK's decision though)
 
Maybe as some sort of compromise where the Muslim Emperor is a republican dictatorship consul-something-or-another with a decision to declare himself Emperor?

That failing I honestly don't know.
 
See here is my oppinion, Its not that I don't want an empire to be able to be formed at least later, I just don't want an empire to ALWAYS happen, at that point it seems more like history is being railroaded in a game 1 about alternate history and 2 in a mod that IS an alternate history.

I want it to be a Republican Dictatorship because

1 I think it would fit just as well thematically
2 I think it will actually add a bit more flavor to Italia
3 I think it honestly makes more sense than becoming a straight up monarchy, Italia is a state in rebellion and trying to get its independence from Rome. I feel it would probably make a bit more sense that Itallia is republican dictatorship because in rome it wouldn't be that much of a transition for the current people, it makes the nation a bit more interesting since it is using a government type that isn't seen super often.

Finaly I think it should be possible to become a monarchy later but I don't think that it should be a full on "monarchy" when the so called "monarch" has barely in power for a month (considering that they are currently at war with SPQR)

A government should describe what is going on in the state, and considering the state is barely formed I do not believe it would have the same organization as a "Despotic Monarchy" because the organization just isn't there. Republican Dictatorship is a good "transition" givernment and gives a good description of what is going on. (Just as a fyi, Republican Dictatorship is the government of Commonwealth and Oliver Cromwell's England in EU4, and it is also used to represent the Second French Empire under Napoleon III in Vicky 2, so kinda think of how those governments worked when thinking about "Republican Dictatorship") ADDITIONALY it would actually make Itallia Stronger in the war.

Republican Dictatorship
+1 Tolerance of heretical religions
+1 Tolerance of heathen religions
+10% Morale of armies

Despotic Monarchy
-1 National revolt risk
-10% Unjustified demands

The Despotic Monarchy only helps at the END of the war, and I do feel it would make sense that some time after Italia becomes independent (if it does) it should be able to switch to a monarchy, but I still feel THEMATICLY it would fit them better to start out as republican dictatorship and transition to a monarchy later

Additionally
New republics will always start with 100 tradition and each year republican tradition increases by +1. Various events can make a player choose between sacrificing tradition or suffer another negative consequence. If tradition's too low, consequences such as increased stability costs (4% more per point below 100) and higher revolt risk (scaled linearly, -3 revolt risk at 100 tradition and 3 at 0 tradition.) Also, republican government with low tradition can collapse into despotism, with reactionaries spawning at below 50 tradition. At 0 the government automatically collapses into a despotistic monarchy (revolutionary empire for revolutionary republics) and the government can also fall if the same ruler is reelected with tradition below 20.

and of course we could have an event chain that leads Itallia to becoming a Despotic Monarchy.

Finaly I just want to say I don't think that Itallia shouldn't be a despotic monarchy, I like the idea but i very much don't think that it should a depsotic monarchy right away for the reasons I stated. and Additionally I don't think that they should win 80-90% of the time, at that point you are railroading alternate history, they should win a slightly above average amouts of time so you can see some diversity in Rome if you are not playing in Rome.

A player will ALWAYS be able to win no matter what side they are on, the AI in order to make the entire world and game more interesting and dynamic on subsequent play throughs should only be able to win about 65% of the time.

That is my argument, I will be done now.
 
The only one who said 80-90% was you, Terran. You're strawmanning the crap out of me with that. And even if I did, what's the problem? No one gives a crap that Ethiopia loses almost 100% of the time in HoI, or that playing as Tripoli in EUIV is a lost cause. SPQR winning the first war would make Italy imo more boring, since it means the civil war ended before it really began.

Otherwise, you look at the 10% morale, but I look at this.

+1 Tolerance of heathen religions

That is completely out of character of a rebellion caused to get rid of a ruling elite of a different religion. There should be no tolerance of heathen religion at all in this instance. Also, depo's unjustified demands will allow it to blob up much faster, perhaps expanding out into Celtia and becoming like OTL Roman Empire.

Also, as an imperial state, there should be a dynasty going on, one in which a republican dictatorship simply can not simulate.
 
alright time out here.

I have realized that nothing either of us will say will change the others mind.

Before this argument ends up causing bad blood between us I think we need to end it.

Arguing like this, no matter what else we want to say, will ultimately cause nothing but bad blood between us.

At this point I say its up to SK, he has (or will) see both of our arguments and it is his mod and he has ultimate say.
 
Hmm...looking at the above I'm inclined to go against republican dictatorship. While I do agree with you Terran that we should have variety in Muslim states beyond vanilla's plain collection of despotic monarchies and iqta, I'm deciding this because of said tolerance bonus, which I agree with Megs as being out of character - this tolerance bonus was something I hadn't realized existed beforehand.

Besides, if we have both a Senate-ruled oligarchic republic and a dictatorial state, the chance exists for Rome to go either way, which is a bit more interesting IMO, and could be even more interesting with a bunch of flavor events and decisions to allow for easy political shifts, though that's obviously not a priority.
 
For the record, I fully endorse Megs's idea, although I would love to see the Republican Dictatorship (or a constitutional monarchy? Not sure which would fit in better with the flavor history I had for Rome's PoD).
 
I suppose one possible option which I'm stupid for not having thought of earlier would be to just make a new government type.
 
Possibly farcical attempt at filling in the last gaps on mainland Europe.

Spoiler :
qyrAOuN.png


The mint green north of Greece I had an idea as the sole Slavic-culture state on the map, possibly the Antes. They'll be a threat to the Greeks and an incentive to keep the *HRE together. I suppose they could be Zoroastrian, which would be interesting, or I guess they could still be Slavic pagan.

*Moldavia is Krzowwh's migrant Buddhist state. Or that could be *Eastern Hungary. Or both. Or Eastern Hungary could be a somehow surviving Dacia. I dunno what either's culture is (Iranian?). Teal is possibly another Germanic kingdom, possibly someone else who migrated there.

Illyria, which is Christian as requested. If we're making it a deliberate Ethiopian analogue then we could just recycle vanilla's Coptic to be that area's religion.

I randomly gave Dalmatia to Sparta and Ragusa to Corinth as colonies or trading posts since someone wanted the Greeks to have Adriatic coastal provinces, and Sparta and Corinth seemed the most likely candidates to have outposts there.

South of Illyria is orange, which is an explanation of how the Greeks took those provinces in the first place, as well as to prevent Illyria from retaking them 1.4 seconds into the game.

Light blue is some coastal state, I have no idea what, probably Latinized. Maybe it's related to *Venice somehow. Dark blue is probably Germanic or a Latinized something, or most likely both. Honestly, both of those were just to fill provinces, and I kind of just put the border along existing natural boundaries.
 
This might be a crazy idea, but could we possibly have a OPM Republic in Murcia? I'll leave you to figure out the joke. :p
 
Since people were complaining that Xie (Greek China) being in Sichuan makes little sense, a few provinces were reshuffled around, with Xie now moving to the northwest, east of the Tarim Basin city-states. This shouldn't change too much of the setup, but this now leaves Sichuan open for something else.

Spoiler :
2jGgEMQ.png


Also, since I had to undergo yet another long dark teatime of the soul today, I started attempting to name some of the French states:
-Aquitania or some variation thereof is, well, Aquitaine.
-Armorica is purple in Brittany
-Lutetia is the Paris-centered state
-Massalia is the southeastern state next to Italia
-Pictavia (from the Roman name of a local celtic tribe) is the largish blue western state

Also, NC, we could make that a releasable or event-caused thing :p
 
You know what, Britain needs another fanservice country, led by Arturia Pendragon :p

Unrelated, a couple of random countries added, including *Bahrain the merchant republic, and a Jewish empire where Kanem Bornu is. Fortunately, AoW is adding a badly-needed land connection from Chad to Darfur to allow for interaction between this and Ethiopia.

Spoiler :
qrUrv8v.png
 
I think England should be divided into a bunch of little countries. An Islamic Kingdom based around London and that other area you wanted, Alba (Arturia Pendragon) which would be Christian or Hellenic, maybe a Norse Kingdom, a Druidic Realm ect ect.
 
I think England should be divided into a bunch of little countries. An Islamic Kingdom based around London and that other area you wanted, Alba (Arturia Pendragon) which would be Christian or Hellenic, maybe a Norse Kingdom, a Druidic Realm ect ect.

My attempt:

UkjVbXt.png


I had this vague idea some time earlier that England stays culturally Celtic while Scotland gets colonized by Germanics/Norse, in a reverse of OTL. Combining this and the above:

So pink is a Druidic realm Arturia's realm (is it okay if its Druidic? imo Christians don't make sense this far north and also imo Hellenics this far north should stay in Ireland) while neighboring brownish-green is Muslim Britain. I randomly made Cornwall Camelot independent probably as another Muslim state, though I suppose it could be given to *Normandy. Arturia's realm.

Purple was just placed there as filler, following natural borders, and really could be anything.

Scotland is divided between a few states that are Norse or Germanic cultured (maybe yellow is still Celtic) Aside from the obvious candidates (Norwegians/Danes), there are the Winnili, who could have moved west and gone Viking instead of south.

*England and *Scotland can be union tags - on the path to forming *Britain (Prydain? Albion?)
 
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