Greek Fire

[Zkribbler]

As if Greece doesn't have enough problems...

Athens (CNN)At least 49 people have died in the worst wildfires to have hit Greece in over a decade, officials said, with many people trapped by the flames and forced to flee into the sea.

Residents told of horrifying scenes as flames engulfed a seaside village. Some escaped only by running into the sea, chased by the advancing fire.

More than 100 people have been injured in the blazes, which are burning in three main fronts in the Attica region, including one which is currently out of control near the seaside resort area of Mati.

For the complete story:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/23/europe/athens-wildfires-intl/index.html

As a native of southern California, I grew up with fast-moving wildfires. My heart goes out to these people.
Kyriakos, are you okay?

 

[Kyriakos]

I am not even following the news. The fires happen in the south part of the country, or at rural areas like Chalkidike. Thessalonike is just concrete, so no risk of a fire here...

Still. 40+ people dead? That is utterly horrible.

 

[Zkribbler]

74 people now dead.

Horrifying pic on CNN this morning: a road jam packed with cars which had been trying to evacuate when flame overtook them. Cars were burnt out; the reporter said bodies were found in groups of two or three clinging to each other.

This is one of three major fires in Greece. The CNN map zoomed out to show fires in Ukraine and Sweden, across Italy and Spain; in France & the UK.

 

[FriendlyFire]

This is one of three major fires in Greece. The CNN map zoomed out to show fires in Ukraine and Sweden, across Italy and Spain; in France & the UK.

Record Summer heat in Europe
Plus Greece is much more vulnerable since they deforested their futile forest and then planted olive trees

 

[Kyriakos]

74 people now dead.

Horrifying pic on CNN this morning: a road jam packed with cars which had been trying to evacuate when flame overtook them. Cars were burnt out; the reporter said bodies were found in groups of two or three clinging to each other.

This is one of three major fires in Greece. The CNN map zoomed out to show fires in Ukraine and Sweden, across Italy and Spain; in France & the UK.

Indeed. A major tragedy. A horrible way for those people to die.

 

[Bootstoots]

Another summer, another set of forested places with a Mediterranean climate (hot, very dry summers, in or outside the actual Mediterranean) goes up in flames. RIP, all the humans who got in the way of the wildfires and died horribly.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I just talked today with a local restaurateur who runs one of my favourite take-out spots near my house... her husband is Greek and she is leaving for vacation to Greece in a few days

Although I admit that I don't know where exactly she is headed nor do I really have a great concept of how large Greece is compared to say California... where rampant wildfires in one part have literally zero impact on the people in another part.

EDIT: NVM, I asked the Enterprise Computer (AKA Google)

Greece is about 3 times smaller than California.
California is approximately 403,882 sq km, while Greece is approximately 131,957 sq km. Meanwhile, the population of California is ~37 million people (26 million fewer people live in Greece). We have positioned the outline of California near the middle of Greece.
http://mylifeelsewhere.com/country-size-comparison/greece/california-usa

So it seems my concern is more justified than I thought.

 

[Lexicus]

Horrifying pic on CNN this morning: a road jam packed with cars which had been trying to evacuate when flame overtook them. Cars were burnt out; the reporter said bodies were found in groups of two or three clinging to each other.

Jesus, a smaller version of what we did to truck columns in the first Gulf War

So it seems my concern is more justified than I thought.

It's still plenty large enough to avoid the fires. Also a bunch of it is scattered Aegean islands, which are common vacation spots.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's still plenty large enough to avoid the fires.

I just imagine someone who saved for years or dreamed their whole lives to one day visit Greece only to have their dreams go up in flames...Same thing in Hawaii.

And that's putting aside the people who actually died, as morbid as that sounds.

 

[Lexicus]

I just imagine someone who saved for years or dreamed their whole lives to one day visit Greece only to have their dreams go up in flames...Same thing in Hawaii.

And that's putting aside the people who actually died, as morbid as that sounds.

Yeah, that would definitely suck, if you had a specific location in mind and it was being affected by the fires.

My younger brother was actually in Greece for three weeks in May. He was doing some kind of program for school (he's going to be a college senior in the fall). It involved working in a refugee camp in some capacity, on an Aegean island (forget which one).

 

[Kyriakos]

I just talked today with a local restaurateur who runs one of my favourite take-out spots near my house... her husband is Greek and she is leaving for vacation to Greece in a few days

Although I admit that I don't know where exactly she is headed nor do I really have a great concept of how large Greece is compared to say California... where rampant wildfires in one part have literally zero impact on the people in another part.

EDIT: NVM, I asked the Enterprise Computer (AKA Google) So it seems my concern is more justified than I thought.

Apparently this fire is on one of the sides (suburbs) of Athens. Greece is iirc roughly the size of the state of New York. The forest isn't continuous; the country is mostly mountainous, and a fire near Athens plays no role for other cities.

Maybe austerity will help - or dumb words by other eu govs will help. Rip to those who died.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Some rather disturbing pics

Spoiler :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-44937082

 

[innonimatu]

Fires were common in these climates for a long time. The problem now is that land that was cultivated and prevented fires from advancing had been abandoned over the past 20 years. Agriculture became unprofitable on marginal lands back in the 90s, but older people kept many small plots. They are now dying off, the land being overgrown with the typical Mediterranean bushes and small forest. Those are not that bad, not would be the old native oak trees and scattered pines.

The problem is that over the 19th century and first half of the 20th a lot of pine forests were planted, to supply the resin market. These forests were kept clean when people used firewood for cooking, until the 1960s perhaps. Not they are no longer cleared, it's uneconomical. But many of these trees have in the meanwhile been replaced by the new big commercial thing, eucalyptus. Those are extremely flammable and spread fires very fast. They're an absolute disaster and so long as they are not absolutely forbidden and eradicated there will be these huge, unmanageable fires. The other forests could be somewhat managed, agriculture or goat herding subsidized to keep some areas clear of fuel. The fires that would still happen would be easier to control. But so long as there are large plots of eucalyptus spread around the fires will be jumping over clear areas, spreading too fast...

I've seen it happen here in Portugal last year, I'm not at all surprised it'll keep happening around the Mediterranean where land is being abandoned. I could easily draft a national policy that could prevent these disasters. But that would require control over tariffs on milk, meat, wood furniture... it would increase employment and make productive use of those abandoned lands. But within the EU those policies are impossible. Recently in my country I've seen independent manufacturers of quality furniture, users of good wood, being driven out of the market by the swedish peddler of cheap crap. They use aggregates, will not support a local forest industry built around good tree species. It is also impossible to encourage use of pastures without some protection on the meat market.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The road in that pic reminds me of the post-nuclear apocalypse depicted in the Terminator films. Its incredible that the trees survived such a fire though.

 

[Yeekim]

Maybe austerity will help - or dumb words by other eu govs will help. Rip to those who died.

Cyprus, Israel, Spain, Bulgaria, Italy, Germany, Poland and France have extended a helping hand to Greece as a fire that started on Monday in eastern Attica claimed 50 lives by Tuesday morning and injured more than 150 residents and visitors in the holiday resorts of Mati, Rafina, Neos Voutzas and Penteli.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/231025/...nd-condolences-pour-in-as-fire-ravages-attica

Commissioner for Humanitarian Aid and Crisis Management Christos Stylianides arrived in Athens yesterday to coordinate the EU assistance being provided to Greece through the EU Civil Protection Mechanism following the deadly fires. The Commissioner announced that Italy and Romania have now sent 4 planes and ground forces from Cyprus started operating yesterday. Offers of assistance to Greece through the Mechanism were also made by Spain, Bulgaria, Croatia, Portugal, Malta and Montenegro.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEX-18-4682_en.htm

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The road in that pic reminds me of the post-nuclear apocalypse depicted in the Terminator films. Its incredible that the trees survived such a fire though.

It makes me realize how lucky the people of Fort McMurray were, a few years ago. That fire was huge, but only two people died (lots of animals didn't make it, of course).

 

[Zkribbler]

It's arson.

 

[Silurian]

The road in that pic reminds me of the post-nuclear apocalypse depicted in the Terminator films. Its incredible that the trees survived such a fire though.

Bulk timber can fair better in a fire than steel.
Steel starts to loose strength above 300C.
Bulk timber chars on the outside which protects the inside.
So the steel may soften quite quickly and collapse but timber nay take many hours to char through.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Bulk timber can fair better in a fire than steel.
Steel starts to loose strength above 300C.
Bulk timber chars on the outside which protects the inside.
So the steel may soften quite quickly and collapse but timber nay take many hours to char through.

But the leaves are still on the trees tho

 

[Silurian]

But the leaves are still on the trees tho

And the buildings behind appear to be undamaged.
The fire seems to be patchy, I assume effected by how dry and combustible each area was.

See attached aerial photos.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44968581