Guess the New Civs

[AbsintheRed]

Why not latin? The main diplomatic relations (...if you can call it in this way...) were with the both roman empires, so I guess they used latin in diplomacy. Doesn't sound too unreasonable imho.

That would also be very strange IMO
AFAIK all the other civs use their own language, not the one they had to use the most in diplomacy

Also, Hungary had latin as official language too, way into the 19th century
(And I'm pretty sure this was the case for many other european nations as well. Simply latin was the main language of education, religion and even high diplomacy in some cases)
Would this mean if they ever include Hungary, the leader would talk in latin as well?

 

[Liex]

Assuming that steampunk Victorian-era science fiction would try to represent most of the world,instead of being restricted to Eurasia,then I'd assume they would need to include Brazil to represent that huge territory on Eastern south America . There are some reasons to do it:


- They couldn't use Portugal instead Brazil,because Brazil was already separated from Portugal and Portugal is too small to be represented(that why they showed Lisbon as a city state);
- Rio de Janeiro is not big enough to represent ALL the brazilian territory(Brazil isn't just Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo) ;
- Brazil didn't have a strong tech lagging at that time,if compared with other Non-European nations,with the obvious exception of USA and Japan;

Interesting fact: The Brazilian Emperor of that time (Dom Pedro II, reigning from 1831 to 1889) was passionate about sciences and technology, and under his govern Brazil oversaw the progressive development of railroads, telegraph lines and overall infrastructure.

If one day Brazil make it into Civ, it'll probably be as the Empire (XIX century) rather than the Republic (XX-nowadays). The Empire had a relatively stable political and economic scenario (specially under D. Pedro II) and was able to maintain the national unity of the Portuguese America. The same wouldn't happen to the republican Hispanic America, and even the USA would see its unity threatened by the Civil War.

 

[AbsintheRed]

My guess is they'll use Bulgar, Old Church Slavonic or possibly (though I hope I'm wrong) Hungarian.

All would be catastrophic decisions. Neither of the languages are even related
I just cannot beleive this is a viable option for Firaxis

 

[Fabiano79]

Really? You don't think it would be odd to represent modern, industrialised Brazil, with a Portuguese-speaking leader and Portuguese city names, without representing the country which, though arguably not responsible for their present economic success, had a defining role in shaping their national identity?

I'm not denying that Brazil are a bigger economic power in the modern world than Portugal, or that it shouldn't be in the game ever. But having Brazil without acknowledging their Portuguese origins would be like having the US without England or France, or indeed any Western European power without Rome. It just doesn't work.

By this logic, we should have etruscans before Rome and Phoenicia before Carthage...

I would love Portugal and Brazil, but I dont have a problem with just Brazil as a civ.

 

[CYZ]

By this logic, we should have etruscans before Rome and Phoenicia before Carthage...

I would love Portugal and Brazil, but I dont have a problem with just Brazil as a civ.

Same here. Brazil could work for a modern civ. And although Portugal is at least equally likely to get in it might just be Brazil on it's own.

I believe Brazil would not be Brazil without some sort of bonus involving cutting down forests/jungle. However, that is a very very controversial subject.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Assuming that steampunk Victorian-era science fiction would try to represent most of the world,instead of being restricted to Eurasia,then I'd assume they would need to include Brazil to represent that huge territory on Eastern south America . There are some reasons to do it:

OF COURSE Brazil would have to be part of any Steampunk scenario.

Slightly disappointed about the Huns, but I wonder if that means the Zulu are out. I'd imagine they would both end up filling the "all-out warmongering" niche.

 

[blackcatatonic]

All would be catastrophic decisions. Neither of the languages are even related
I just cannot beleive this is a viable option for Firaxis

No-one is even sure which language family Hunnic (if such a language even existed) was a part of. Short of just making one up or sticking with a non-indigenous language which some Huns probably spoke (eg. Gothic or Latin), it's hard to see what else they could use.

I'm actually quite excited and intrigued to see how the Huns will be added to the game. If Firaxis are prepared to think outside the box, there are some really interesting possibilities. Given the Huns were nomadic, will their cities even operate in the conventional sense?

 

[Fabiano79]

Same here. Brazil could work for a modern civ. And although Portugal is at least equally likely to get in it might just be Brazil on it's own.

I believe Brazil would not be Brazil without some sort of bonus involving cutting down forests/jungle. However, that is a very very controversial subject.

Actually Brazil have one of the most advanced and severe legislation for environment. The problem is that the country is so big, that every new road or dam results on a big desctrution of forests (regarding european parameters). Also, theres is corruption, bribes etc that makes the law sometimes useless.

My guess is some bonus on food (agrobusiness) or on Happyness because religion (biggest catholic conutry in the world)

UU: Bandeirantes - replaces scout and can convert barbs into workers .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandeirantes

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm actually quite excited and intrigued to see how the Huns will be added to the game. If Firaxis are prepared to think outside the box, there are some really interesting possibilities. Given the Huns were nomadic, will their cities even operate in the conventional sense?

I'm kind of leaning towards the idea (given the name of their capital) that they don't build cities at all. Their UA might forbid it and give them a bonus to taking them.

Pure speculation of course.

 

[blackcatatonic]

By this logic, we should have etruscans before Rome and Phoenicia before Carthage...

You're confusing civilisations that started out as foreign colonies with civilisations which evolved into others in later periods. The Etruscan Civilisation was essentially assimilated into the Roman Empire in its early days (I'll grant you that Phoenicia should probably be in the game). Brazil is not a later offshoot of Portugal; the two are distinct Civilisations which both still exist in their own right and which IMO should both be represented in the game. But Portugal needs to come first.

Am I really the only person who feels very uncomfortable about the idea of having a modern colonial power in Civ without first representing the Civ which originated the colony in the first place?

 

[blackcatatonic]

I'm kind of leaning towards the idea (given the name of their capital) that they don't build cities at all. Their UA might forbid it and give them a bonus to taking them.

Pure speculation of course.

That would be really, really amazing! I suspect it might be a bit too leftfield for them, but I hope it'll be something like that.

 

[CYZ]

Am I really the only person who feels very uncomfortable about the idea of having a modern colonial power in Civ without first representing the Civ which originated the colony in the first place?

Yes, there is no real need to do this. As long as the modern colony qualifies as a civ on it's own right it isn't a problem (and when it doesn't it should not be added at all).

 

[Fabiano79]

You're confusing civilisations that started out as foreign colonies with civilisations which evolved into others in later periods. The Etruscan Civilisation was essentially assimilated into the Roman Empire in its early days (I'll grant you that Phoenicia should probably be in the game). Brazil is not a later offshoot of Portugal; the two are distinct Civilisations which both still exist in their own right and which IMO should both be represented in the game. But Portugal needs to come first.

Am I really the only person who feels very uncomfortable about the idea of having a modern colonial power in Civ without first representing the Civ which originated the colony in the first place?

No, you are not. I saw this argument here before.

As I said, I would love see both as civs. But, as they choose to place Lisbon as a CS, I think Brazil is now free to be the "portuguese speaking civilization" on ciV.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm kind of leaning towards the idea (given the name of their capital) that they don't build cities at all. Their UA might forbid it and give them a bonus to taking them.

Pure speculation of course.

Yep, that would be great

Am I really the only person who feels very uncomfortable about the idea of having a modern colonial power in Civ without first representing the Civ which originated the colony in the first place?

No, I'm absolutely with you on it. No Brazil without Portugal IMO

But I have 2 reasons not to get involved in this discussion:
- I'm perfectly sure Portugal will be added later. DLC or another expansion
- OTOH I'm not too fond of modern civs. So I don't really want to see Brazil included as a full civ. Perfect for scenarios, but for me, that's all

 

[blackcatatonic]

I think the problem I have with the whole thing is that Portugal aren't in; more to the point, the addition of Lisbon as CS suggests they're definitely not going to be added in G&K and may not even come out as DLC for a while. Which, if true, just seems wrong.

My theory is that there is a Portugal in the pipeline, but they were considered too similar to the Dutch to both be released in the expansion pack, and that Portugal will come out as DLC later in the year. Maybe even with Brazil as a double pack.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Portugal would be a very profitable DLC for them. I expect that's where we will find it.

 

[Fabiano79]

IMO, the presence of Brazil or not will be decided by something a lot more practical that this kind of discussion. It will be decided by the number of sales of ciV for brazilians players.

Its a huge market, but only 2k/Firafix knows the numbers and can justify as a important marketing manouver adding Brazil to the game. This is true for all the others modern countries that want to join the game, like canada, australia, argentina.

 

[Deggial]

I'm actually quite excited and intrigued to see how the Huns will be added to the game. If Firaxis are prepared to think outside the box, there are some really interesting possibilities. Given the Huns were nomadic, will their cities even operate in the conventional sense?

I see all the points about language, city names and "occupied" civ-places for better suited civs.

But after all, it is *gameplay* that matters and, as blackcatatonic, I could imagine some really interesting and unusual game mechanics for the Huns. Unfortunately, this would involve totally new rules and routines only for the Huns - and I doubt, Firaxis will go this way.
But the Huns *still* can be interesting to play. Firaxis showed with other civs, too, that they are willing to try something new and inspirational.

 

[Louis XXIV]

With inclusion of Boudica, Dido and Theodora we only have seven female leaders (Catherine, Elisabeth, Wu Zetian and Isabella) and about 25 male leaders. So the seven females definitely aren't too much. Adds some nice flavor and variety.

True. Although I was doing a quick calculation. Apparently, with one less, they could preserve the original status quo (20% female). Although I guess things are even more equal now.

 

[The_J]

That would also be very strange IMO
AFAIK all the other civs use their own language, not the one they had to use the most in diplomacy

Also, Hungary had latin as official language too, way into the 19th century
(And I'm pretty sure this was the case for many other european nations as well. Simply latin was the main language of education, religion and even high diplomacy in some cases)
Would this mean if they ever include Hungary, the leader would talk in latin as well?

...they'd imho only talk latin if they can't find any Hungarian speaker , which is sure unlikely. But since there are no Hunnic speakers around...what else? Better a language which was used in at least a minor way than a totally unrelated language.

...or should I throw Klingon into the room ? The technical requirements are fullfilled, and it would stilwise fit to what we expect .