Gunman Kills 8 in Attack on School in Jerusalem

[skadistic]

Hoew many examples have to be posted before you drop that argument?

When you show me that its not the act of individuals and a tactic used by the IDF. Unlike hamas and hezbola that use it every day.

And since you can't do that I wont drop it. Just because you are intellectual dishonest doesn't mean I will be just so you can feel special.

Why don't you go start a thread about a US soldier tripping over his boot laces.

Moderator Action: Or why not discuss the thread instead of trying to troll another poster. - The Yankee
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[brennan]

So, anyway, if we total up the number of innocent civilians deliberately killed by HAMAS and compare that to the 'collateral damage' due to IDF restraint (sic) over the years, we'll see without a doubt that HAMAS are the real murderers yes?

 

[skadistic]

So, anyway, if we total up the number of innocent civilians deliberately killed by HAMAS and compare that to the 'collateral damage' due to IDF restraint (sic) over the years, we'll see without a doubt that HAMAS are the real murderers yes?

Yes we will.

If you want to make that argument you might want to use a different word then murderer.

 

[brennan]

Great, go get the figures then. Lately how many Israelis have been killed in rocket attacks vs how many Palestinians 'accidentally' killed in counter attacks?

 

[skadistic]

Great, go get the figures then. Lately how many Israelis have been killed in rocket attacks vs how many Palestinians 'accidentally' killed in counter attacks?

So its just rocket attacks and recent ones? Does that include in hezbolas hundreds that started a war? Why not use all the terrorist attacks over time?

 

[brennan]

Trying to start an irrelevant argument here? Surely the figures would back you up, were you brave enough to face up to them...?

Go ahead, pick any half decent time frame you like, give us a comparison.

 

[skadistic]

Trying to start an irrelevant argument here? Surely the figures would back you up, were you brave enough to face up to them...?

Go ahead, pick any half decent time frame you like, give us a comparison.

Brave enough? I don't know what the numbers are and there well may be more deaths to pallies. I just need to know what exact hoops you want set up in what originally is your irrelevant argument.

But those killed while being used as human shields would be attributed to the one who used them as human shields. That would mean the pallie are responsible for the killing of the other pallies.

But you are right the argument is irrelevant since it matters more on how they died. Were they intentionally targeted simply for being civilians or not?

 

[brennan]

Ah, cunning, you accuse me of setting up hoops before... hey is that the sound of goalposts moving I Hear...?

You are so transparent it's just sad.

Here's what the beeb has to say about casualties from the recent spate of rocket attacks btw:

The lull follows a violent period in which at least 120 Palestinians were killed in Israeli military operations.
Four Israelis were killed by Palestinian rockets or in combat operations.

So that's 4 deaths from the (evil) deliberate targeting of civilians, 120 deaths from (good) collaterol damage yes? We're all clear who the good guys are now?

 

[skadistic]

Ah, cunning, you accuse me of setting up hoops before... hey is that the sound of goalposts moving I Hear...?Those are your goal posts I was just clarifing where you wanted to set them up.

You are so transparent it's just sad.Sad is how they are your goal posts to begin with.

Here's what the beeb has to say about casualties from the recent spate of rocket attacks btw:


So that's 4 deaths from the (evil) deliberate targeting of civilians, 120 deaths from (good) collaterol damage yes? We're all clear who the good guys are now?

Yes its still the ones who don't intentionally target civilians and hide amongst human shields to make sure as many civilians die as possible.

Why do you only use the rockets? What about the bombings and shootings? What does you beeb say about those those?

I wouldn't want you to use more realistic numbers so if that kind of information will make your point more honest and you want to avoid that you just go ahead and keep those goal posts narrow.

 

[brennan]

You go ahead and use whatever figures you like. I've provided some, now feel free to have a turn.

But in this particular instance I count the 'good guys' as having killed significantly more civilians than the terrorists.

Please feel free to show where i've made 'goal posts' at all. Show me one single restriction i've made on this comparison. Oh, that's right I haven't. So feel free to shut the hell up about it.

You want to use the bombing and shootings, go ahead. Pick a time frame and we'll compare Israeli deaths from terrorist action with Palestinian deaths due to IDF action.

Or you can go ahead with your inane bleating about nonexistent hoops and goalposts.

 

[skadistic]

You go ahead and use whatever figures you like. I've provided some, now feel free to have a turn.

But in this particular instance I count the 'good guys' as having killed significantly more civilians than the terrorists.

Please feel free to show where i've made 'goal posts' at all. Show me one single restriction i've made on this comparison. Oh, that's right I haven't. So feel free to shut the hell up about it.

You want to use the bombing and shootings, go ahead. Pick a time frame and we'll compare Israeli deaths from terrorist action with Palestinian deaths due to IDF action.

Or you can go ahead with your inane bleating about nonexistent hoops and goalposts.

The blame lies at the feet of those who use the human shields to maximize civilian deaths when those human shields die.

How are the hoops and goal post nonexistent when you said from the start that the hoops and goal posts were deaths from the rocket attacks? If you are going to set up goal post at least be honest enough to acknowledge you did so.

 

[Elponitnatsnoc]

Great, go get the figures then. Lately how many Israelis have been killed in rocket attacks vs how many Palestinians 'accidentally' killed in counter attacks?

It's trite to try to prove who has the moral ground by comparing the number of deaths. What really matters is the intent of the attacks. Surely, you will agree that Hamas tries to kill innocent people and that Israel does not, right? I think this is the most fundemental part of the issue.

 

[RedRalph]

I think the point he makes is that there is an equivalence, because if not comnparable in intent, both sides seem to care as little as eachother when if they kill innocents. Its possible indeed that Hamas targets civies more deliberatley, but the fact is Israel makes attacks that it knows will kill civilians, that might not be the intent, but they know that will be the outcome, and still do, resulting in them killing far, far more people than Hamas do.

 

[Gecko1]

Yes its still the ones who don't intentionally target civilians and hide amongst human shields to make sure as many civilians die as possible.

Why do you only use the rockets? What about the bombings and shootings? What does you beeb say about those those?

I wouldn't want you to use more realistic numbers so if that kind of information will make your point more honest and you want to avoid that you just go ahead and keep those goal posts narrow.

Technically the Israeli army hides among civilians as well, plus the only targets that militant organisations can hit are civilians, the Israelies know where to position their soldiers.

 

[Elponitnatsnoc]

Technically the Israeli army hides among civilians as well, plus the only targets that militant organisations can hit are civilians, the Israelies know where to position their soldiers.

So you're saying Israel should position their soldiers in overtly obvious places which can be hit easily? Yes, that sounds like a terrific idea... I'll have to suggest that!

 

[Gecko1]

So you're saying Israel should position their soldiers in overtly obvious places which can be hit easily? Yes, that sounds like a terrific idea... I'll have to suggest that!

I'm just saying that it's impossible for any of the Palestinian militants to attack any Israeli military positions. That means that Israel can rain fire upon Palestine and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. So the only answer is to start targeting civilians. They might like hitting school children but neutralizing the Israeli army is a much more convenient objective.

 

[skadistic]

I'm just saying that it's impossible for any of the Palestinian militants to attack any Israeli military positions. No its not imposibleThat means that Israel can rain fire upon Palestine and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. No it doesn't.So the only answer is to start targeting civilians. No it isn't.They might like hitting school children but neutralizing the Israeli army is a much more convenient objective.

There attacks are terrorist attacks and nothing to do with anything more then killing jews.

 

[Gecko1]

There attacks are terrorist attacks and nothing to do with anything more then killing jews.

You have to resort to terrorism when ther is no other way of getting your message across. What do you expect Hamas to do, negotiate? Now way, and if you expect a full frontal war you're sick. There is nothing else to do than use shady tactics and use civilians as your only shield. The problem is that the Israelies are winning with their much better PR. Example one.. you and me up until sixth grade.

 

[skadistic]

You have to resort to terrorism when ther is no other way of getting your message across.No you don't. What do you expect Hamas to do, negotiate?Yes I'd expect them to act like civilized rathional people. Now way, and if you expect a full frontal war you're sick.Sick is excusing terrorism as the only way like you keep doing. There is nothing else to do than use shady tactics and use civilians as your only shield.Bull. There are other ways. The problem is that the Israelies are winning with their much better PR.Well its more likely they aren't terrorist targeting civilians. And if you think the Israelis have good PR you know alot less then you pretend to. Example one.. you and me up until sixth grade.

Yes because when I got out of sixth grade I was smart enough to know that terrorism is never the only way. Something just showed you haven't figure out yet.

 

[Gecko1]

Yes because when I got out of sixth grade I was smart enough to know that terrorism is never the only way. Something just showed you haven't figure out yet.

First I am not pretending to know anything, if I don't know something I say I don't know it simple. Second the Israelies do have good PR considering that a lot of people support them and that lawmakers are total slaves to the Israel lobby. It doesn't matter if most of the American populous wants a peace treaty as long the the lobby gets the billions it wants. I do not condone the attacks on civilians and I would like for a peace treaty that retreated to pre-1948 boarders. I am only attempting to justify the Hamas position and I will say again, I LIKED FATAH BETTER.

Sorry about the mindless drone thing, I got a bit angry over the whole thing.