what happend to my comprehensive arguments?
Gunman Kills 8 in Attack on School in Jerusalem
- Thread starter Elponitnatsnoc
- Start date
what happend to my comprehensive arguments?
HannibalBarka
We are Free
Ecofarm
Deity
Yay!!
Now I have much to examine and the source that started it.
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That site (indaily.net) is pretty far out there, you know? Maybe you do not think so.
Do you really think the violence commited by Israel against Palestine is about ethnic cleansing and not terrorism?
Alot of stuff on that site calls the conflict ethnic cleansing, like:
The site is as anti-Bush as moveon.org and it charges Israel with genocide.
Personally, I do not think the Jews are interested in tying to kill all the Palestinians (Jordanians, really, the vast majority of them) or all Arabs within Israel.
I don't think the terrorists are victims of a holocaust. I think they are terrorists, and they are not wanting peace ever, and we must kill them. Not because of ethnicity, but to protect innocent people.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Thats because the pallies left on their own accord at the advice of their leaders. Well most of the, those that didn't now live in relative prosperity as Israeli arabs and not as pawns used by the muslims to foster hate. How much land did they take?
Why is the map dumb exactly? Its because you don't like the point it makes do you. The map is far from dumb.Maybe the arabs who advised the pallies to leave and go back after all those evil Jews were killed should maybe admit defeat and absorb the pallies instead of treating them garbage and pawns. No its much better to keep them as poor angry and uneducated trash.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Yes but you don't defend your self by intentionally targeting civilians. Thats what terrorists do. Unless you think terrorism is ok. Do you? Do you think launching rockets at schools hoping to kill children is a legit way to defend your self? What about blowing up babies on buses? Is that defending your self? What about blowing up teens in a disco? Is that really defending your self?
HannibalBarka
We are Free
The pallies left on their own accord at the advice of their leaders? I did not know Rabin was leading the Palestinian in 1948 :
Yitzhak Rabin, one of Israel's Prime Ministers, had written in his diary soon after the occupation of Lydda and al-Ramla on July 10th-11th, 1948:
"After attacking Lydda [later called Lod] and then Ramla, .... What would they do with the 50,000 civilians living in the two cities ..... Not even Ben-Gurion could offer a solution .... and during the discussion at operation headquarters, he [Ben-Gurion] remained silent, as was his habit in such situations. Clearly, we could not leave [Lydda's] hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it could endangered the supply route [to the troops who were] advancing eastward.
Ben-Gurion would repeat the question: What is to be done with the population?, waving his hand in a gesture which said: Drive them out! [garesh otem in Hebrew]. 'Driving out' is a term with a harsh ring, .... Psychologically, this was on of the most difficult actions we undertook". (Soldier Of Peace, p. 140-141 & Benny Morris, p. 207) .
Ecofarm
Deity
That book invents stuff. Sorry, but the critique is damning. Specifically, it is charged with "inventing facts and quotes".
It was apparently written by a real-life Commie Nazi (and I though such things did not actually exist).
You can't put your world view on a single fringe "historian", can you?
This is like Fiasco gone even more horribly wrong - Some guy gathers a few quotes, that amount to hearsay, and jumbles them into "evidence".
Even if the above quote from his diary is real, c'mon. The book is obviously put together to breed hatred, not to teach history from an objective perspective.
Long term ethnic cleansing? Really? I think it's a long term fight against terrorists. That those terrorists hide among civilians is a shame and tragedy, but it cannot be allowed to provide them sanctuary. You know, Palestinians could kill the terrorists themselves, then there wouldn't need to be any bombing...
Why don't the Palestinians just kill the terrorists and put an end to the trouble?
There are no suicide bomb Jews. The Jews do not target civilians. The Jews don't riot. The Jews don't topple international border walls and pour into Egypt for cheap cigarettes. The Jews don't senselessly destroy productive greenhouses. The Jews do not celebrate terrorist acts. It's really a one-sided problem. When all of the people who like Farfur are dead or wake-up, the healing can start.
It was apparently written by a real-life Commie Nazi (and I though such things did not actually exist).
You can't put your world view on a single fringe "historian", can you?
This is like Fiasco gone even more horribly wrong - Some guy gathers a few quotes, that amount to hearsay, and jumbles them into "evidence".
Even if the above quote from his diary is real, c'mon. The book is obviously put together to breed hatred, not to teach history from an objective perspective.
Long term ethnic cleansing? Really? I think it's a long term fight against terrorists. That those terrorists hide among civilians is a shame and tragedy, but it cannot be allowed to provide them sanctuary. You know, Palestinians could kill the terrorists themselves, then there wouldn't need to be any bombing...
Why don't the Palestinians just kill the terrorists and put an end to the trouble?
There are no suicide bomb Jews. The Jews do not target civilians. The Jews don't riot. The Jews don't topple international border walls and pour into Egypt for cheap cigarettes. The Jews don't senselessly destroy productive greenhouses. The Jews do not celebrate terrorist acts. It's really a one-sided problem. When all of the people who like Farfur are dead or wake-up, the healing can start.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Excuse me? It's not me who started babbling about who's part of the West and who is not in a thread concerning Palestinian terrorism. You've made no relevant point whatsoever, you just demonstrated your lack of knowledge and personal bias. At least admit it
To what "comprehensive arguments"?
HannibalBarka
We are Free
not only he is a commie nazi, but he is an israeli-jew also
But I am sure an Ecofarmer from the US has more insight about the conflict that Ilan Pappe
OK, you don't like Ilan Pappe because he is a jew? Try Tom segev than
HannibalBarka
We are Free
Eco, try Benny Morris, I think he is not a commie-nazi, He is jewish though, I hope you don't have a problem with that
On April 8-9 1948 Ben-Gurion told Mishmar Ha'emek representatives to burn and destroy the neighboring villages, he said:
"[They] said it was imperative to expel the Arabs [in the area] and to burn the villages. For me, the matter was very difficult. [But] they said that they were not sure [the kibbutz could continue to exist] if the villages remained intact and [if] the Arab inhabitants were not expelled, for they [i.e. the Palestinian Arabs villagers] would [later] attack them [i.e. Mishmar Ha'emek]." (Benny Morris, p. 116)
"They [Mishmar Ha'emek people] faced a cruel reality ... [and] saw that there was [only] one way and that was to expel the Arab villagers and burn the villages. And they did this. And they were the first to do this." (Benny Morris, p. 116)
On April 8-9 1948 Ben-Gurion told Mishmar Ha'emek representatives to burn and destroy the neighboring villages, he said:
"[They] said it was imperative to expel the Arabs [in the area] and to burn the villages. For me, the matter was very difficult. [But] they said that they were not sure [the kibbutz could continue to exist] if the villages remained intact and [if] the Arab inhabitants were not expelled, for they [i.e. the Palestinian Arabs villagers] would [later] attack them [i.e. Mishmar Ha'emek]." (Benny Morris, p. 116)
"They [Mishmar Ha'emek people] faced a cruel reality ... [and] saw that there was [only] one way and that was to expel the Arab villagers and burn the villages. And they did this. And they were the first to do this." (Benny Morris, p. 116)
Winner
Diverse in Unity
As I said in one of my previous posts (conveniently ignored by the "blame Israel" crowd): Israelis make distiction between combatants and non-combatants. This concept is obviously alien to the Palestinians, they see civilians as legitimate targets, which is why they're nothing but barbarians.
I say it's time for a good old collective punishment.
HannibalBarka
We are Free
Palestinian are barbarians because they target civilian. Thus it is time to punish palestinian civilians
We truly should ignore all your posts
Ecofarm
Deity
The first time a village ever got burned? Don't you see how ridiculous it is to assume we have found the start of the conflict here - and the Jews (who would have guessed) are to blame.
The paragrpah reads as if we have found the original act of violence and can hereby officially and historically blame the Jews.
Do you think the book is objective and unbaised?
ps. A Jewish Commie Nazi?! I give up. It's just a book from a guy with a political agenda - not the official history of the Israel conflict.
Many homes were burned, and many people were killed a thousand times in the history of mankind, and none of it justifies targetting civilians (terrorism). A thousand stories the same would not excuse the murder commited by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists.
You can go back in history as far as you want, but 1 thing matters today: Do they target innocent civilians? If the answer is yes, then they should die. If that costs some additional lives, that's the price we pay to get rid of scum of the earth. Better a few innocents die today than many tomorrow. Nobody cares where they are from or what they look like. The world cares about 1 thing: are they terrorists. It's not ethnic cleansing (at least, certainly not today); it's terrorist cleansing - and Palestine could use alot of it.
Seriously, it has nothing to do with ethnicity. The terrorists should be killed. It really is that simple.
The paragrpah reads as if we have found the original act of violence and can hereby officially and historically blame the Jews.
Do you think the book is objective and unbaised?
ps. A Jewish Commie Nazi?! I give up. It's just a book from a guy with a political agenda - not the official history of the Israel conflict.
Many homes were burned, and many people were killed a thousand times in the history of mankind, and none of it justifies targetting civilians (terrorism). A thousand stories the same would not excuse the murder commited by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists.
You can go back in history as far as you want, but 1 thing matters today: Do they target innocent civilians? If the answer is yes, then they should die. If that costs some additional lives, that's the price we pay to get rid of scum of the earth. Better a few innocents die today than many tomorrow. Nobody cares where they are from or what they look like. The world cares about 1 thing: are they terrorists. It's not ethnic cleansing (at least, certainly not today); it's terrorist cleansing - and Palestine could use alot of it.
Seriously, it has nothing to do with ethnicity. The terrorists should be killed. It really is that simple.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Palestinian are barbarians because they target civilian. Thus it is time to punish palestinian civilians
We truly should ignore all your posts
He didn't say target for death now did he. Do you not understand the difference?
I think running around calling anyone who disagrees with Israel's policies a "Nazi" (i) shows tremendous political ignorance, and (ii) is a disgrace to the people who lost their lives in the Holocaust, the true victims of Nazism.
Cleo
Cleo
Really, Jews use the Holocaust card like a race card. I really think that the Holocaust is the major driving force behind the west's protectionism of Israel. How about you let the place fend for itself, rather than protect it like a child, a child with a thirst for violence.
Ecofarm
Deity
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080307/ts_nm/palestinians_israel_dc
I think that puts Hamas squarely on the low moral ground. I don't want to engage in dialogue, neither do the Israelis, and neither should you. It's time for the leadership of Hamas to be executed.
Oruc
Reactionary
Right-Wing fascists that support Israel? makes perfect sense
Elponitnatsnoc
Master Debater
Maybe because the Arabs continuously attacked it, and it's the role of any righteous and moral country to defend those who are being attacked. Under your scenario, why don't the rest of the world let Sudan kill all of Darfur or let Pol Pot remain in power... Oh wait they did! And genocides happen. That's why. You protect the innocent against vehement and irrational hatred.
And I think it's acceptable to use the Holocaust as a race card. Maybe if 6 million of your bretheren were systematically murdered, you'd want it to not happen again. Just a thought.
they never were on the moral high ground , but niether was israel.
