HBO: A Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)

[SuperJay]

I'll say this. Martin writes a lot, but he doesn't overwrite like Jordan. That guy needed an editor with a willingness to pare things down.

Definitely - those books were inexcusably long and dull. I forget the site, but Plotinus recently posted a review of Jordan's first few books and the reviewer articulated a lot of my own opinions about Jordan - basically that he was a mediocre, derivative writer that produced relatively ordinary, formulaic fantasy tales. Readers who wanted the comfort of familiar stories were pleased, since those stories contained nothing more than the usual recycled tropes, and nobody got challenged by anything scary or different.

EDIT: 'Scuse my tediousness, turns out you were part of that same discussion, Scratch.

(sniffs, tugs braid, straightens skirt)

Hahahaha Thank you, Nynaeve!

 

[Yeekim]

At this rate I'll believe it... I would say when I have a physical copy in my hands, but actually I think not until I've actually finished reading it, just in case it ends with "ha ha fooled you, sincerely GRRM".

Anyway, he still has, what, two more books to go until the story is done, supposedly. Rate better pick up, guy is not particularly young or healthy-looking.

If I was a praying type, he'd be the guy I'd pray for daily. Apart from my family and friends, ofc.

(And yeah, I've been following the books since #1 was released. Fifteen years ago. FIFTEEN YEARS. There are awkward teenagers stumbling around scratching themselves in public, whose parents had not yet had sex when I read the first book.)

Yeah...my own wait has only been ~4 years - and that has definitely been a long time.

 

[Supr49er]

The visual effects look great in the preview Sunday night.
It was interesting to see the little changes from the book.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The visual effects look great in the preview Sunday night.
It was interesting to see the little changes from the book.

Like it.
Currently watching the trailers and house portraits on youtube, and of course they have some (minor) spoilers, but I've read all books so far.
Bit disappointed by Daenerys and caucasian looking Dothraki, but the dad from Still Standing makes a better king Robert than I had expected.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

I can't wait for this...I've been re-reading the series in anticipation of A Dance with Dragons this July, and I fully expect the TV series to live up to the epicness of the books.

Unfortunately, I'll have to find somewhere to watch it online (Sidereel maybe?) as I don't have access to HBO in my dorm or at home.

 

[kingofall]

My expectations are also high from the show and i am excited for it.

 

[Kraznaya]

Spoiler :

Fehh. Arya needs to be more young Ellen Page and less Creepy Little Girl.

Also, the True HeroTM of the series is obviously Jonarian Targaryen, son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. It is known.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Fehh. Arya needs to be more young Ellen Page and less Creepy Little Girl.

Also, the True HeroTM of the series is obviously Jonarian Targaryen, son of Rhaenys Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. It is known.

Creepy ? I didn't find Arya creepy in the clips I've seen so far, but I find her increasingly creepy in the books.




And about the supposed Targaryen bastard:

Spoiler :

It's not really known, it's more a unofficial consensus.
Maybe A Dance with Dragons took so long becasue Martin was pissed that everybody on the internet agrees about Johns parents andhe took his time to change the oroginal plan. All the hints could turn out to be red herrings.

 

[Yui108]

waaait, I thought we found out who Jon's mom was.

 

[North King]

I mean, we have two people on record as saying they have "definitive" knowledge of who Jon's mom is, and both of them we could reasonable believe have inside knowledge.

 

[Scratch]

I felt the first episode was solid, did a good job of introducing the characters. I suspect that it might be difficult to follow some for those who have never read the books. It's been a long time since I read the first two books, but having a general idea of the shape of the story kept me from feeling a sense of not understanding these characters.

 

[Maniac]

And about the supposed Targaryen bastard

Ha, I knew it! I independently came to the same conclusion somewhere near the end of A Clash of Kings.

 

[NovaKart]

I just saw the episode tonight, had to wait a day for someone to upload it and factoring in the time difference. I think it's not bad, even good maybe but it does have some typical fantasy camp like the way they handled the dothraki. The scenes of Winterfell from a distance look a little too much like something from star wars too with the tops of the towers looking kind of like flying saucers.

The casting is good I think except I hate Viserys. I don't know why they had to make him effeminate. I always pictured him as an arrogant macho guy but the media usually likes to show effeminate people in a negative way. I mean with the character they have now it's just impossible to take him seriously at all. He and Dany so obviously have their hair bleached platinum blond or else they're wearing wigs, it doesn't match their eyebrows and it's distracting.

Otherwise I think it's a good show, I just hope they stay away from Xena type fantasy cheese.

 

[Karalysia]

Saw the episode. It was pretty compelling, enough to keep me watching.

 

[Yeekim]

Fehh. Arya needs to be more young Ellen Page and less Creepy Little Girl.

Also, the True HeroTM of the series is obviously Jonarian Targaryen, son of Rhaenys Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. It is known.

1. It's "Rhaegar". Rhaenys was his little daughter.
2. Putting a major spoiler up here as well as into your user title? You get some sort of gratification from being a jerk towards people who haven't read the books?

 

[Kraznaya]

Spoiler :

Creepy ? I didn't find Arya creepy in the clips I've seen so far, but I find her increasingly creepy in the books.

I'm rather against the Arya-is-a-sociopath school of thought on her character, even with the latest developments on her character. In fact, her struggles in training are meant to convey just the opposite...

And about the supposed Targaryen bastard:

Spoiler :

It's not really known, it's more a unofficial consensus.
Maybe A Dance with Dragons took so long becasue Martin was pissed that everybody on the internet agrees about Johns parents andhe took his time to change the oroginal plan. All the hints could turn out to be red herrings.

Do you understand what "It is known" is meant to convey?

On the episode: Like all novel to screen adaptations, they cut out all the little subtleties that make the books so good in the first place. It's watchable and I really liked the portrayal of the last Targaryens in particular (despite the lack of purple eyes), but wasn't exactly fond of the up-aged Starks (all the kids seems to have been aged about 3-5 years, except Arya).

The casting is good I think except I hate Viserys. I don't know why they had to make him effeminate. I always pictured him as an arrogant macho guy but the media usually likes to show effeminate people in a negative way. I mean with the character they have now it's just impossible to take him seriously at all. He and Dany so obviously have their hair bleached platinum blond or else they're wearing wigs, it doesn't match their eyebrows and it's distracting.

I always imagined Viserys similar to how they have him. Why would he be a macho guy? - he's spent nearly all his teenage life in the Free Cities, running away and trying to appear civilized. The abusive qualities in his character are just compensation for a lack of strength (in more ways than one). Viserys is actually one of my least favorite of GRRM's character development paths - I loved him as a manipulative and abusive princeling in Pentos, and I hated how he degenerated and got flanderized into a blithering idiot on the Dothraki Sea.

1. It's "Rhaegar". Rhaenys was his little daughter.
2. Putting a major spoiler up here as well as into your user title? You get some sort of gratification from being a jerk towards people who haven't read the books?

1. Thanks, fixed.
2. It's not a spoiler because a. it isn't confirmed to be true, and b. all the information existing to form that postulate exists in the backstory, not within the story itself.

 

[Yeekim]

2. It's not a spoiler because a. it isn't confirmed to be true, and b. all the information existing to form that postulate exists in the backstory, not within the story itself.

That difference remains hazy for me.
Nonetheless, I forgive to you, as you're a fellow fan.

Viserys is actually one of my least favorite of GRRM's character development paths - I loved him as a manipulative and abusive princeling in Pentos, and I hated how he degenerated and got flanderized into a blithering idiot on the Dothraki Sea.

I'd say that even in Pentos, he was being manipulated rather than manipulating.

 

[Leoreth]

Well, what to say? I best start saying that I carefully avoided watching as much as a trailer before I saw the first episode, so I knew nothing about the cast and how close the storytelling would be to the book. Now that I've seen it I have to say they managed to make it closer to the books than I thought they would.

The plot follows the books closely (even down to single lines like "all dwarves are bastards in their fathers' eyes", which I think is a good thing because they're one of Asoiaf's major strengths), but avoids unnecessary elements while cleverly dramatizing things we got told by the narrator in the books. Ending the first episode with "the things I do for love" was a good idea imo, although the scene itself could've been done better. I personally dind't quite get the feeling Bran was in real danger, definitely not as much as in the book, which could be because it's told from his perspective there while the episode seems to be more from Jaime's perspective. That made the scene a bit lackluster for the climax of the episode.

The cast is really awesome for most characters, and though I've imagined nearly everyone different from how they look there, I can agree with both the look and the characterization presented so far. It was a good idea of the producers to increase the age of nearly all children - not only considering the TV friendliness of all the crap they'll go through, but for internal consistency as well (the children should've been as old in the books). The only character that really annoyed me was Jon Snow ... his voice and the accent felt out of place and made it somewhat difficult to sympathize with him ... which is bad because he's portrayed quite sympathetic in the books (maybe even too sympathetic, but there would've been other ways to compensate that). Minor qualms for the other Stark kids: Robb didn't get enough spotlight (I guess I wouldn't have understood he's the heir if I hadn't known it), so I little Jon/Robb contrast would've benefitted both characters. And I absolutely don't understand what made them turn Sansa from auburn to red-haired.

One last bit, the Daenerys scenes were just like the Daenerys chapters in the book - distracting from the main story. I'm also interested to see why they had her marry in Pentos and not in the Dothraki Sea. Drogo was a little too - it's been said above - camp for my tastes. On the other hand, I think Viserys was portrayed quite well ... he's not a macho type in the books, rather a weakling that can afford to be cruel because he gets pampered by Illyrio and his only target is a little girl.

Edit: oh, by the way, I think R+L=J is true and it would be really awful if GRRM retconned that away with the later books. It's so beautifully hinted at, with so many subtle clues coming together, that it would be shame losing it just because a tiny majority of die-hard fans figured it out in advance.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I think Viserys is a victim of the POV format in the novels. We only see him through Daenerys eyes and to his thirteen year old sister he is really terrifying. The perceived flanderization is not a result of Viserys' character degeneration but rather of Daenery's growing confidence. She grows more independent of him and has her husband to protect her, therefore she and by extension the reader sees him for what he is.
Since the show abandons the format for obvious reason, Viserys is seen as a rather pathetic character with entitlement issues right from the start.
I would have preferred it if he was more agressive and angry, but the creepiness of the bath scene kind of makes up for it.

 

[Kraznaya]

Spoiler :

That difference remains hazy for me.
Nonetheless, I forgive to you, as you're a fellow fan.

I would spoiler all the discussion of the books itself, except it seems everyone in this thread has read them already - that is the main audience of the series after all. With the discussion of favorite characters and such, obviously this thread discusses the books as well, so it's too much trouble.

I'd say that even in Pentos, he was being manipulated rather than manipulating.

Oh, obviously, but what choice did he have? He didn't really have much to work with, so it could just be an intelligent dice roll. The marriage in of itself wasn't a bad idea, especially when you examine its sibling by events later in Dorne. His actions after on the Dothraki Sea were what ruined it.

Well, what to say? I best start saying that I carefully avoided watching as much as a trailer before I saw the first episode, so I knew nothing about the cast and how close the storytelling would be to the book. Now that I've seen it I have to say they managed to make it closer to the books than I thought they would.

The plot follows the books closely (even down to single lines like "all dwarves are bastards in their fathers' eyes", which I think is a good think because they're one of Asoiaf's major strengths), but avoids unnecessary elements while cleverly dramatizing things we got told by the narrator in the books. Ending the first episode with "the things I do for love" was a good idea imo, although the scene itself could've been done better. I personally dind't quite get the feeling Bran was in real danger, definitely not as much as in the book, which could be because it's told from his perspective there while the episode seems to be more from Jaime's perspective. That made the scene a bit lackluster for the climax of the episode.

There were a few corruptions of very important things that happened in the books. For example, when the Starks find the direwolf pups, Jon's role is slightly reduced when it is Theon Greyjoy who suggests he takes Ghost rather than himself. All of these are subtle details - but I came away from the scene in the book very impressed with the Jon as the archetypical boy hero with a silver tongue, and I didn't get that from the HBO scene.

One last bit, the Daenerys scenes were just like the Daenerys chapters in the book - distracting from the main story. I'm also interested to see why they had her marry in Pentos and not in the Dothraki Sea. Drogo was a little too - it's been said above - camp for my tastes. On the other hand, I think Viserys was portrayed quite well ... he's not a macho type in the books, rather a weakling that can afford to be cruel because he gets pampered by Illyrio and his only target is a little girl.

It seems to me Dany's marriage was obviously downscaled in scope because they couldn't afford the scale of 40,000 dothraki, and I agree that the Dothraki portrayal was terribly campy, not in the least because they couldn't afford to portray the sheer scale of their numbers. And obviously Dany's POVs are a distraction from the main story - GRRM is a master troll, and he cuts away on cliffhangers just because, and events on Essos give him a huge excuse to do so.