Help Me Conquer Deity

[CaiusDrewart]

Hello veteran civvers,

A few months of lurking on these forums and soaking up all the advice I could find has completely revolutionized my Civ game. I started whipping like crazy, teching Aesthetics and trading it around, quickly grabbing Currency and selling techs for cash, and so forth. I also stopped building Markets everywhere. As a result, I went from struggling on Emperor to finding Immortal pretty manageable.

Anyway, after comfortably winning my last few games on Immortal, I thought I'd try Deity. I've heard the jump from Immortal to Deity is huge, though, so I thought it would be fun to consult the wonderful community here.

Setting are standard I think--7 AIs, Pangaea, no huts no events.

I chose Suleiman as my leader because I've always enjoyed playing him. He's pretty solid, with Philosophical and good starting techs, but he's not cheesy with a crazy overpowered UU or anything like that.

Here's the start. It looks decent to me--wet corn is very good. I wish there were more river tiles though. Maybe I can pick up some more by heading SE, we'll see.

 

[Qactus]

I will follow this with interest, as I'm in the exact same situation regarding playing level. What I currently do is making my immortal games tougher with settings and/or bad starts, but the leap to deity is still too big for me too.
Good luck with the game! Also, please turn on resource bubbles in your following screenshots.

 

[yyeah]

Hmm ... I think i try it .

In beggining, when you are moveing from IMM to Diety remember that improveing on deity is not winning on it but loosing. So if you feel that IMM is starting to be a bit too ezy for you, you should definetly try to improove on deity. Hang in there even if you loose some in begining.
For me IMM was no problem when i moved to deity, but deity was impossible to win GLHF!

 

[ConfusedCounsel]

Funny, I toyed with opening this very same thread.

I also wanted to move from imm to deity.

Mind if I shadow along?

 

[MegaLurker]

Moving the warrior onto the coastal hill will give you the most useful information, obviously.

 

[Seraiel]

The logic of BiC with 2 resources making a 3rd assumable is somehow beyond me, but my initial move would be to move 2SE with the Settler because I assume that there are more rivertiles there and I'd hope for there to be Forests + an additional resource. Silks are not worth of retaining for me because they need Calendar.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I decided to move the warrior 1 SE in order to see if it would be worth moving the Settler that way. He didn't reveal any resources, and I don't have too much interest in getting all those Lakes. Looks like SIP will probably be the best bet, maybe tech Pottery right off the bat?

@BornInCanteloup: I'll probably play sets of about 15 turns or so? If that's too slow I'll pick up the pace but I want to start this off game pretty deliberately.

@ConfusedCounsel: yes, please do shadow!

@Qactus: thanks for the reminder about the bubbles.

Thanks to you all for showing interest in my game, I appreciate it!

 

[Rusten]

You can get severely cramped on deity pangea, so keep that in mind. It's one of the reasons why I don't recommend it as a mapscript to someone learning deity (continents is better). But at least you're IMP here and inland, so you should be able to get a decent amount of cities.

Following with interest. Good luck!

 

[MegaLurker]

But it wouldn't tell you what you'd lose by moving.
Moving the warrior 1SW tells you all you're losing by moving SE.
Moving the warrior 1SE tells you some of what you're gaining by moving SE.

I think it's more useful to know what you gain than what you lose in this case. SIP is acceptable just from the opening screenshot, so knowing what you'd lose just means you can choose to gamble on unknown tiles.

 

[MegaLurker]

You can get severely cramped on deity pangea, so keep that in mind. It's one of the reasons why I don't recommend it as a mapscript to someone learning deity (continents is better). But at least you're IMP here and inland, so you should be able to get a decent amount of cities.

Following with interest. Good luck!

It does mean you can usually get away with only warriors for barb defense, though.

 

[gspchamp999]

400 BC

Spoiler :

I settled one West. Got mids and hanging gardens. First gp was engineer I settled. Second gp scientist for academy.

Just finished self teching currency and was only able to trade it for calendar.

No iron and was not able to snipe the barb city with axe.

Code of laws just a placeholder.

May complete shedywagon if given the opportunity for culture pressure on the english city.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

OK, I went ahead and played the first few turns. Input on future tech path and city locations would be greatly appreciated.

After moving the warrior revealed nothing, settling in place seemed like the thing to do, so I settled in place. No food, but some intriguing Stone. That makes the Mids a possibility. They're pretty good with Philosophical. We'll see though, I don't want to compromise my expansion to get them.

I had flirted with going Pottery first but after some consideration I decided BorninCantaloup's suggestion of Mining->Bronze Working was much sounder. With this tech path the mine on the Plains Hill completes just as Istanbul grows to size three, and one turn after BW finishes, which allows for a very quick Settler. As it turned out, BW revealed some pretty convenient Copper.

I met Mansa on Turn 7, coming from the east. He's a friendly neighbor. He does plot at Pleased but his probability of declaring war is very low and he doesn't build a lot of units. He is also easily bribable into wars (that is, if you can get somehow get a couple techs on him...) I don't see Mansa's borders and haven't met anyone else, so I should have a good amount of space, and the land to my west will probably not be contested.

The forest to the north between the Corn and Copper seems like the best site to me. Nice and close to the Capital, it'll provide barb defense and have two good tiles to work early. A pretty safe move. The worker can chop the forest N of Istanbul, then road into that site, then hook up the Copper, then the Corn.

I'm thinking Pottery->Masonry->Writing for the tech path? Not sure whether Masonry or Writing should be the higher priority.

Here's the situation, just starting on that first Settler:

 

[CaiusDrewart]

@Rusten: I love warmongering and basically only ever go for Domination/Conquest, so I usually play Pangaea. It is unfortunate how it often completely screws over one or two civs on the edge of the map though.

@BornInCanteloup @MegaLurker: thanks for all the suggestions, they've been quite helpful.

@gspchamp999: I can't look, but I hope the game's going well!

 

[MegaLurker]

I would only worry about stone that requires a settler if you're going to go for the 'Mids. It works well with a philosophical leader, you'll want to have it built probably no later than 800BC to be safe on Deity. I think even that is not all that safe. If it's a choice between the 'Mids and getting boxed in the smart choice is probably getting more cities.

 

[cseanny]

I'll be following and shadowing too. Nothing to actual spoil so anyone can look. It's just a few paragraphs so this makes it leaner.

Spoiler :

I agree with Sera's idea to have moved the Settler SE towards the river. SIP didn't look attractive to me at all. Stone with a Philo leader can be tempting for sure. Getting the Mids would guarantee a quick GE which I would personally use for TGL in route to Music.

Of course any Wonder is a crap shoot on Deity and even 1500-1600 (Mids) isn't "safe". This map looks like TGLH could be tempting too. Tbh, this map is making my mind hurt lol. There are soooooo many possibilities here it's hard to focus on just one.

The only thing I can decide on for sure is 100% skipping AH. I'm pondering something like Min, Pot, Writing, Math (trade for Alpha and backfill). Now if you were able to trade for Alpha in the 1600-1700 range it's "doable" to still pick up TGLH and the MIDS with power chops and some whip overflow. BW would be nice early but a Capital working 2 corn and 2 hills makes 6T Settlers.

Quick WRT and open borders virtually guarantees a neighbor will flood you with religion and free border pops. Hmmmm...........

 

[yyeah]

Safe date for Mids i think its like 1300BC. But nothing is rly safe on diety.
Even Lib theres no safe date . Like look at this, i have 50BC CS and Music allrdy so iam doing v good ... notigh cant stop me from winning Lib right ?

Spoiler :

Back to this game. Played to 400BC.

Spoiler :

I moved simply becouse i wanted to have more rivertiles. Didnt scoue stone, i moved warrior then settler on hill, wanted to scout is there anything else then river. i usually scout along the river like its natural for me becouse i like to bulid bureau Capitols.

My land.

Capitol.

Tech race.

tech path
pottery-mining-BW-hunting-archery-> probably i could skip archery and def with only warriors until i hook up cooper but... that wasnt 100% bet i just played it safe.

Writing- here i was waiting for my GS and start on Aste after Academy.

Everybody had Currancy so i went for Drama->Music probably loose it to Isabella but its a good trade bait.

Edit.
@ CaiusDrewart

Spoiler :

I wouldnt be worry for now about settling W side, its clearly your land, instand i would consider grabing some land to the south and east.
2 great city spots witch i would like to for now would be this hill where your warrior is standing, after boderpop in cap, you can work copper and produce settlers/worker. Only problem can be barbs. But if you pu warrior somwhere near this gold you should be fine until border pop in cap ... i think. but then you need couple more warriors.
Another one would be on plains 3E2S from Capitol.
tech path if you want to try Mids, Pottery, Mansonry then Mistycyzm
3th city spot is 4W 2N from Capitol you need Monument to grab ths gold and have a bit early on.

 

[MegaLurker]

The Great Lighthouse makes some sense on this map at first glance, but I hate hate hate going for it on Deity. To me it's the most unpredictable, a bigger gamble than the Oracle (which in my version of this game went in something like 2400BC ). Sailing is a fairly expensive tech to have to beeline early if it's not otherwise very useful, you get no multiplier to make fail-gold a good consolation prize, and it can go impossibly early. I've seen it go well before 2000BC many times on Deity, the chances of this I think are increased on Pangea where a number of AIs are likely to get coastal starts.

On average starts I've not been able to beeline the Great Lighthouse earlier than about 1800BC. And rushing such an expensive wonder (don't forget the 60 hammers for a regular lighthouse, first) is a good way to get really boxed in on Deity Pangea.

This map allows you to settle pretty much every city on the coast, but the starting location for me rules out TGLighthouse even if I were inclined to try for it.

I think a more rewarding wonder strategy on this map would be to settle the stone and chop the 'Mids. If you don't get it the fail-gold is still good, if you do get it you get some strong synergy with the Philosophical trait. Get a fairly quick GEngineer to either bulb MC or rush the GLib for even more Philo bonus, plus the obvious benefit of rep specialists with Philo as well. Good amount of food in our corner of the map makes this IMO the strongest play if you pull it off. If you can get 6 or 7 cities with food specials running rep scientists you can set the tech pace on Deity Pangea for sure, with no AI getting more than 10 cities usually. At least to Lib.


edit: I see everybody posting their play-through's so far losing that eastern corn to the AI. Major blunder IMO. Block and backfill always on Deity Pangea, unless you're going Horse Archers or Elepults. My opening went like this:

Spoiler :

Moved the warrior to the coastal hill. Decided to settle 1NE of the wet corn. This was not much of a gamble IMO, I made the decision based on potential for Bureau cottaging which is so important on these settings. Moving the palace is no real option IMO, so we must maximize green and riverside. Having a number of tiles in the BFC be lake is actually pretty good. 5 lake tiles with a lighthouse increases our max pop by 3 fairly early in the game and brings in a bit of commerce to be multiplied.

Tech path was Mining->Pottery->BW->Writing->Masonry->Aesthetics. Then a couple turns into Alpha to get it for Aesthetics. I got lucky and Zara gifted me IW.

First settle was on the northernmost of the three sugars, timed so that the third border pop from the capital gives me access to the corn. The 3 food city tile makes this settle useful immediately, if only for building a worker. This city can grow fast and work 3 riverside cottages for the capital, and will be quite strong by Calendar. It helps block the AI and my scouting made me aware that I can easily secure myself land for 7+ decent cities. I can even compete with Churchill for the bronze tile as he settled it outside his first ring and I will get a border pop first. I'll probably lose it eventually, but until then it's a strong tile and a very good resource trade. This might be crucial because we appear to have zero iron. Having a second corn also means a resource trade for happiness or 10+ gpt...worth more than a fully developed town . I'd have hated to lose this spot.

Second settle is not a great long-term city but it gets me the stone, hopefully early enough for me to get the 'Mids. At which point the strategy is to go for Lit and use the GEngineer to rush the Glib if it's still available, then try for Music.

Diplo situation is shaping up to be a religious love-fest that excludes Mansa. Which means I will be safe, he will be dogpiled, and I will hopefully snipe some of his cities (he stole my double-seafood blocker spot in the north).

Here's the empire at 925BC:

Yes, I know I'm being dangerously slow with the 'Mids. There are no Industrious opponents, though, and I can luckily trade for Maths very early with a number of forests still to chop.

Tech situation:

All things considered this map has been generous to us. Isabella is the biggest threat so far, she will probably build the AP and make it difficult to win a military victory unless a couple AIs found and adopt later religions. No iron is an issue as well.

 

[MegaLurker]

@ Mega :
He's got stone in BFC I thought you meant the Pyramids cost a lot compared with a settler, the first time you said they cost that much. Now I doubt.
I'd favour a more standard opening but rushing the Pyramids is certainly an option

RIght you are, my mistake. In that case I would definitely chop the 'Mids.

Another typo ? What corn ? the Copper tile ?

Coastal corn to the east. GSPchamp has lost it, I see yyeah has it because of where he settled the capital. For some reason I thought Caius also lost it but I am again mistaken, he still has a chance. But only if he settles it first, and it seems he will settle north instead.

You raise a good point with settling & blocking + teching up vs expanding more compact and rushing a military tech.
Caius is maybe a little too early in his game to decide on that but it's a consideration that should come soon.
I get caught too often in aimless RExing + teching up.

I defer to your Deity experience, of course. I imagine you'll win this map much earlier than I will, if I win it at all

 

[yyeah]

@ BiC, CaiusDrewart

Spoiler :

Well maybe you right this corn copper city can be best option here for sure its safest one.
Another option can be put 1st city 3N work on copper only and make settler for eg. finally you get cows, and one can farm around this lake so this will be ok city.
And 4th city 4E 2N.

But i dont rly like teching everything on deity, even for discount no need here. Simply one can work 1 tile and produce settlers/workers.

Go Mansonry and choop mids forgot on n for now, choop and whip workers, settlers, granary in to mids Library after mids and then with rep you can start working on GS in Cap

Coastal corn to the east. GSPchamp has lost it, I see yyeah has it because of where he settled the capital. For some reason I thought Caius also lost it but I am again mistaken, he still has a chance. But only if he settles it first, and it seems he will settle north instead.

No way to loose this corn even if you Sip and settle it as 3th city especialy with BW 1st , grow and whip 2nd settler at S5. Iam allmoust 100% sure that one will have it, i even test it in a sec.

iam at 275AD

Spoiler :

Going Lib and Cavs

 

[yyeah]

No way to loose this spot. Only to barbs but one needs to fogbust such a nice spot.

Spoiler :

@ CaiusDrewart

With micro you could have 2nd warrior out, in last turn befor grow sw silk to grasland hill grow 1t and warrior 1t.