Hmm....domination is hard

[madscientist]

I find domination a lot harder in BTS than it was in Vanilla. That Aposaltic Palace is a big reason why. You can be full tilt ahead on war, plenty of money and happiness to keep going and the peace whistle will blow for a motion they passed. You can also have that happen if another AI is at war with the same one you are and they cause that AI to capitulate before you are done taking over territory. Then to finish the job, you have to take on them and someone (usually pretty strong) else. That Statue of Zeus can be a real headache too, you start fighting someone with it, and there's no time it seems without unhappy faces. I liked in Vanilla where you could just take people out based on geography. Another factor is this whole colonial maintenence biz they added in, you try to control more than about 6 cities on another continent, you better be prepared to either have a lot of merchants /towns building wealth or your science slider dropped down to 20% just to keep your economy up.

Generally, State Property is the civic to combat overseas empires you absorb.

 

[CivMcNut]

Generally, State Property is the civic to combat overseas empires you absorb.

Did they fix that on the last patch for BTS? The game I played with BTS where I conquered a huge continent and kept the cities, I ran State Property and was still in the poor house from all the Colonial Maintence that didn't go away like distance maintenance did. It was huge for me, something like 50 gold per city even after courthouses. It increases exponenianlly for every city you own on a continent away from your capital.

I haven't tried taking out another continent since patching my game to the latest version from the store bought one, has that changed?

 

[Validator]

Did they fix that on the last patch for BTS? The game I played with BTS where I conquered a huge continent and kept the cities, I ran State Property and was still in the poor house from all the Colonial Maintence that didn't go away like distance maintenance did. It was huge for me, something like 50 gold per city even after courthouses. It increases exponenianlly for every city you own on a continent away from your capital.

I haven't tried taking out another continent since patching my game to the latest version from the store bought one, has that changed?

Yes, patch 3.13 changed it so that colonial maintenance is capped at twice distance maintenance. Since SP means distance maintenance is 0 then colonial maintenance is also 0.

 

[Catan_Settler]

Here's a somewhat related question... Is there a way that I'm not seeing, to disband one of your own cities? When I'm going for conquest wins I tend to raze most of the cities I capture, however I usually need to keep at least one or two on a given continent to use for importing troops and whatnot. So far I can't find a way to destroy that city once I'm down burning the rest of its continent to the ground. Maybe it's not possible though. If only I could nuke it once I move my troops to the next land mass.

 

[AmazonQueen]

The thing about that, however, is that one cottage is worth 3 people in a specialist city, and thats if you managed to get the pyramid. With improved farms, its closer to 2 people. GPP only matter if they result in something, which will only happen in 1-2 cities.

The implication, which i only just now realized, is that a CE could run at 50% culture and still perform on par with a SE...

Whether you prefer a CE or SE Justinian's still your leader for prolonged wars. With 50% culture a Hippodrome can give you 5 more happiness than a theatre could.

 

[Harbourboy]

There is NO WAY you can win a domination victory using Immortals. They are worth a damn only in the very early game, and might be used for an early rush, but that contributes nothing whatever to a domination win, except giving you a good start on the game.

Of course you can win a Domination victory using Immortals. Look at Balbes' Immortal rush in WOTM7, where the world was taken over purely by Immortals, and at immortal difficulty level as well. Balbes sent immortals to every single AI's capital at once to deny them all from hooking up strategic resources, then systematically dismantling the rest of the their empires piece by piece. Magnificent.

 

[Hammurbabble]

Of course you can win a Domination victory using Immortals. Look at Balbes' Immortal rush in WOTM7, where the world was taken over purely by Immortals, and at immortal difficulty level as well. Balbes sent immortals to every single AI's capital at once to deny them all from hooking up strategic resources, then systematically dismantling the rest of the their empires piece by piece. Magnificent.

OK, let me modify what I said.

You cannot win a Domination victory using Immortals unless you are playing on a Pangaea map or other waterless all-one-continent map, which, by removing all significant elements of naval strategy, effectively drops the difficulty of any military win.

You probably can't win one except on a Tiny or Small Pangaea map, actually, because the time it takes to FIND all the enemy's capitals will be prohibitive. But you ABSOLUTELY can't do it on any map with significant water. On a Continents map, you can't even get to many of the enemies (potentially none of them) until you've researched Optics, and by then your Immortals will be hopelessly outclassed.

Even without strategic resources, no Immortal is going to beat a Longbow, let alone a Rifleman or Infantry.

 

[alex sword]

I target on domination *any* game I play. If I do a space win, it means that my domination strategy failed. Note usully I play Emperor, Large / Huge / Fractal, Maraphon. Fractal means that "early" unit mega-rush makes no sense (quecha- or axe- or settlers- rush). Reason is simple - you will kill your economy by having many early cities/units and risk is high there is another continent, who will overteach you. So, more realistic strategies should be choosen playing Fractal.

My conclusion - all traits are good for warmongers. Every trait could be used. The best ones, however, are aggressive, expansive (cheap granaries = cheap whipping), organized (cheap courts). You will have two or three waves of military expansion and, when the one is started, you should whip / draft all your cities except scientific / golden / production capitals which are a core of your empire and are needed to fund your research and expansion. Don't be afraid to whip your GP farm capital. Many games I don't build classic GP farm at all. One-two early great scientists and a couple of great people to establish corporations in later game is enough, at least, for Emperor level. So instead of spending good food tiles on great people generation, I use them either for powerfull combinations cottages + mines, or farm + whipping. I think people often overvalue great people. Only early GP are really important. Size of your empire is really what matters later.

 

[The-Hawk]

I disagree completely. There is NO WAY you can win a domination victory using Immortals. They are worth a damn only in the very early game, and might be used for an early rush, but that contributes nothing whatever to a domination win, except giving you a good start on the game.

...snip...

A domination victory is normally won during that third or fourth window. Once in a while it can be won in the second. If you win it in the first, you need to up the difficulty level or play on a bigger map or a non-Pangaea. (Pangaea is just too easy for any sort of military victory. If you want a decent challenge, play on something that requires going to sea.) And if you win it with an early rush using Immortals, you need to play on harder difficulty, on a non-Pangaea, and with more than one opponent.

RE: "winning with Immortals". Maybe it is just semantics, but if you use an early unit (Immortals, Praets, War Chariots) correctly, then your domination win is almost assured by the time they are obsolete. Sure, on a huge map you may well need knights or even cavs to finish the last AI's, but at that point, it is mop-up. The end result is no longer in doubt.

RE: Windows. Given your definitions for windows... I would expect to finish 20-30% in the first window, another 50-60% in the second window. Only time I would expect to go into the 3rd window is quick speed on bigger maps. PS...I normally play Emperor or Immortal, never smaller than standard sized maps. Only caveat, I am new to BtS. I understand BtS may be more difficult.

If folks would like to learn how to accomplish fast domination, I would suggest studying games/spoilers in GOTM or HOF....

 

[Catan_Settler]

I find it's usually better to wait until marines/tanks and flight to do the big mop up operation, the campaign moves so much more quickly. I'll usually do the first real campaign with knights, although I have been known to use axe/sword or elephant/catapult rushes if I am getting pinched out of real estate. I find it's usually better to expand peacefully until you have really strong units with good movement, because then you can conduct the warfare so much more efficiently.

 

[InFlux5]

Is there a way that I'm not seeing, to disband one of your own cities?

No. It's simply impossible to disband cities in Civ 4.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I find it's usually better to wait until marines/tanks and flight to do the big mop up operation, the campaign moves so much more quickly. I'll usually do the first real campaign with knights, although I have been known to use axe/sword or elephant/catapult rushes if I am getting pinched out of real estate. I find it's usually better to expand peacefully until you have really strong units with good movement, because then you can conduct the warfare so much more efficiently.

After experimenting, unless I have a ridiculous UU like immortal or Praet, it seems like the best time to start with the warring is maces/catas if you hurry to those. As long as the enemy isn't fielding knights or muskets (though you can still take these cities with numbers), you can flatten cities with blinding speed this way. Longbows hurt, but when they have no +% from cities and are colatteral'd a bit they fall fast enough. Usually just 2-4 cats per city, average 3, with 0-1 losses in maces. In terms of production that's hardly murderers row to replace, and hitting with a good stack of them means many downed cities before they recover...if they do.

Also useful because by then you probably have the useful CoL and Currency to actually keep cities.

 

[The-Hawk]

I find it's usually better to wait until marines/tanks and flight to do the big mop up operation, the campaign moves so much more quickly. I'll usually do the first real campaign with knights, although I have been known to use axe/sword or elephant/catapult rushes if I am getting pinched out of real estate. I find it's usually better to expand peacefully until you have really strong units with good movement, because then you can conduct the warfare so much more efficiently.

I guess it depends on your definition of "better". To me "better" means finishing with an earlier date. I can't think of a time I've built tanks except maybe a quick-speed or late-era-start game. Ancient starts, epic or marathon speed - never. A tank-based war might go fast once you start it, but I expect to have finished my domination centuries before tanks are even available.

 

[alex sword]

it seems like the best time to start with the warring is maces/catas if you hurry to those

If you beeline construction, catapults + swords will take cities defended by archers-axes with very good win-loss ratio. You will loose only 2-3 catapults per 7-8 AI units. The trick is to build a branch of catapults ASAP (6-7), immediately after you invent construction. Whipping helps. 6-7 catapults + more to be built later is enough to start war with mediocre AI and capture its best cities at least. WW is a problem, not its military cause probably you dont have drama at this point.

This usually corresponds to my first wave of military expansion. The second wave - macemen, knights. The third - rifles and cannons, maybe cavarly. If it was pangea, it's enough. If we've other continents, we need one ore wave with infantry and tanks.