Holes in the Ozone Layer?

[Keirador]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the idea of holes in the ozone layer. How can a hole be formed in a gas? Would the gas be afraid of going into the "hole" and veer off? Even if a force were acting to create the destruction of ozone in a certain spot, wouldn't the surrounding ozone simply expand to fill the spot? And, even assuming that O3 was terrified of going near Greenland or something, since ultraviolet radiation causes the creation of ozone, wouldn't the surge of UV light coming through these "holes" simply break more dioxygen molecules into free radicals to recombine as O3, quickly filling these holes back up?
I don't get it. How do holes in the ozone overcome the problems of
1) making a hole in a fluid and
2) the fact that increased UV penetration into the atmosphere would cause increased ozone production
?

 

[Shadylookin]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the idea of holes in the ozone layer. How can a hole be formed in a gas? Would the gas be afraid of going into the "hole" and veer off? Even if a force were acting to create the destruction of ozone in a certain spot, wouldn't the surrounding ozone simply expand to fill the spot? And, even assuming that O3 was terrified of going near Greenland or something, since ultraviolet radiation causes the creation of ozone, wouldn't the surge of UV light coming through these "holes" simply break more dioxygen molecules into free radicals to recombine as O3, quickly filling these holes back up?
I don't get it. How do holes in the ozone overcome the problems of
1) making a hole in a fluid and
2) the fact that increased UV penetration into the atmosphere would cause increased ozone production
?

when they say holes I believe they mean thining spots where not enough gas is going there.

 

[Keirador]

Isn't part of the definition of a gas that it expands to fill whatever space it can? How can there be thin spots?

 

[OrpheusPrime]

Hum, thats a vary good point. One would think that there would be a 'thinning' instead of a hole.

 

[Keirador]

There is a thinning; it's called ozone depletion, it's caused by more stable gases produced primarily from human emissions occupying space in the stratosphere. I have no problem with that idea at all. It's the idea of specific areas where there are "holes" that perplexes me.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Well maybe the layer is more vulnerable in the polar regions because of gravity and the earth's tilt. The polar regions spend a certain time of the year as the farthest point from the sun on earth. Maybe that causes the ozone gas to react by becoming more concentrated in areas of the globe that are always closer. I think the holes are concentrated in at least one of the polar regions. But I really don't know what I am talking about so don't take my word for it.

 

[ainwood]

You need to think of it not as a hole in the atmosphere, but as a hole in the ozone.

 

[Keirador]

The ozone is part of the atmosphere, though. How does that help?

 

[ainwood]

Get a pool of water, and poor some cooking oil over it, until there is a layer of cooking oil over the top. Now, blow in the middle, and see how you can clear a 'hole' in the cooking oil. Similar principle - its just an area of the atmosphere that doesn't have any ozone.

Another analogy would be a cloudy day where there is a gap in the clouds.

 

[Keirador]

I suppose if there was a continuous pressure on a single spot that kept clearing ozone away, a hole could be formed. But what about the fact that UV light creates ozone? Wouldn't a hole in the ozone layer cause the production of more ozone to fill it right up again?

 

[ainwood]

That's the problem - new ozone is being created, but the CFCs in the atmosphere are destroying it at a greater rate than its being produced.

Note that when they say 'hole' they really mean 'thinning'.

 

[Keirador]

They should just say "thinning", then.
Damn "they", making me look stupid.

 

[BasketCase]

There actually are two "ozone holes" in the planet's atmosphere--specifically, at the north and south poles. While decreasing ozone levels worldwide is making these holes larger over time, the primary reason these "holes" exist is because the planet's magnetic field channels solar radiation towards the poles. The large amount of radiation hitting the poles means more of that radiation gets through, making it appear as if the ozone in that area isn't doing its job.

Now stop being such a fizzle.

 

[Sims2789]

I'm having a little trouble understanding the idea of holes in the ozone layer. How can a hole be formed in a gas?

By hole, they mean a spot where ozone gas is not present. In its place is another gas, such as carbon dioxide.

 

[Zardnaar]

We get this problem with tourists in new Zealand. I went to the beach with an Italian chick (she was hot to) and she strips down to a topless bikini. I warn her about getting sunburnt and she laughs at my white body. "In Italy I sunbathe all day". This ain't Italy babe I thought. The next day she was really sunburnt and in alot of pain. My ears have also blistered from working in the sun and its not overly hot here compared to alot of the world. However New Zealand is close/under the ozone hole. 10-20 minutes in the sun in summer can burn you easily over here.

 

[North King]

There actually are two "ozone holes" in the planet's atmosphere--specifically, at the north and south poles. While decreasing ozone levels worldwide is making these holes larger over time, the primary reason these "holes" exist is because the planet's magnetic field channels solar radiation towards the poles. The large amount of radiation hitting the poles means more of that radiation gets through, making it appear as if the ozone in that area isn't doing its job.

Now stop being such a fizzle.

That, and the fact that gravity naturally draws the atmosphere towards the equator would help... Thinking of it as a skin of oil, since the ozone layer is thinning, it tries to cover as much up as it can, but since it's drawn to the equator, the poles are first to go. That's my theory, at least.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Did you see the recent 'Daily Show' where they show Bush43 both in the year 2000 and the year 2005 basically saying 'we need to know more about the problem. You can solve a problem easier when you know more about it.' So what have we learned in the last five years?! Even Mr. Blair couldn't get him to move very far on this issue.

 

[classical_hero]

We get this problem with tourists in new Zealand. I went to the beach with an Italian chick (she was hot to) and she strips down to a topless bikini. I warn her about getting sunburnt and she laughs at my white body. "In Italy I sunbathe all day". This ain't Italy babe I thought. The next day she was really sunburnt and in alot of pain. My ears have also blistered from working in the sun and its not overly hot here compared to alot of the world. However New Zealand is close/under the ozone hole. 10-20 minutes in the sun in summer can burn you easily over here.

Same here in Australia. You need to be very careful when you are out in the sun. That is why Australia is the Skin cancer captial of the world.

 

[Gothmog]

Kierador wrote:

I'm having a little trouble understanding the idea of holes in the ozone layer. How can a hole be formed in a gas?

First you must understand ozone chemistry. This starts with the Chapman mechanism…

Ozone forming reactions:

Very high energy UV (less than 240 nm) radiation dissociates oxygen: O2 -> 2O

Oxygen atoms react with molecular oxygen (in the presence of a third body) to form ozone: O + O2 -[M]-> O3

Ozone destroying reactions:

UV radiation (240 – 320 nm) dissociates ozone: O3 -> O2 + O

Ozone reacts with atomic oxygen to reform molecular oxygen: O3 + O -> 2O2

So what we have is a dynamic balance between a number of fast reactions. Now there are other reactions that help cycle between O, O2, and O3. These can involve the species: H, OH, HO2; and NO, NO2, NO3; but also Cl, ClO, ClO2; and Br, BrO, BrO2 which is where CFC’s come into play. It starts to get more complicated if you also consider species such as HOCl, Cl2O2, and ClONO2 but I think you get the picture.

CFC’s transport Cl and Br into the stratosphere, most naturally occurring Cl is in highly water soluble forms and gets rained out before reaching the stratosphere (volcanoes and sea salt transported by exceptional thunderheads being the exceptions).

Now this by its self wouldn’t be expected to form a ‘hole’, so here are the other factors. The polar regions experience a meteorological phenomena in which they are relatively isolated from the rest of the atmosphere (the polar vortex), this happens mostly during polar winter, and during this time there are lots of polar stratospheric clouds (PSC’s) present. Isolated is important so ozone can’t flow in and replenish the hole, polar winter because there is not enough UV to create more ozone to replenish the hole, and PSC’s play the roll of converting many reservoir species (i.e. non-reactive species that contain Cl, H, NO, etc) back into reactive ones.

basketcase wrote

While decreasing ozone levels worldwide is making these holes larger over time, the primary reason these "holes" exist is because the planet's magnetic field channels solar radiation towards the poles. The large amount of radiation hitting the poles means more of that radiation gets through, making it appear as if the ozone in that area isn't doing its job.

No, solar radiation is basically unaffected by the planets magnetic field, only charged particles (such as the solar wind) respond to a magnetic field. Don’t know where you got this explanation.

North King wrote

That, and the fact that gravity naturally draws the atmosphere towards the equator would help... Thinking of it as a skin of oil, since the ozone layer is thinning, it tries to cover as much up as it can, but since it's drawn to the equator, the poles are first to go. That's my theory, at least.

???

 

[Keirador]

Thanks Gothmog. That about wraps it up.
Aren't you a scientist of some sort?