"Holocaust was a hoax"

[CivNoobie]

...according to the neo-nazis, then who did Hitler kill?

 

[Ajidica]

Not sure if serious...

Given my understanding of neo-Nazi groups and other Holocaust deniers they don't actually deny that mass imprisonment of numerous ethnic groups occurred. Rather, they dispute the size, scale, organization, intent, and post-war investigations of the issue. That said, they are neo-Nazis so I wouldn't put too much stock in their sanity.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

I've had some arguments with them before. They claim that there was no plan of extermination, and that the deaths (which they say are exaggerated) were due to food shortages at the end of the war.

 

[Glassfan]

You may not believe we landed on the Moon. You may not believe Oswald killed Kennedy. But the Holocaust is definitely one of the "facts" of history. Holocaust-denial usually involves truely moronic ignorance or antisemitism.

 

[red_elk]

I'd say that criminal responsibility for it's denial is even more idiotic than the denial itself.

 

[Glassfan]

I'd say that criminal responsibility for it's denial is even more idiotic than the denial itself.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, no matter how uninformed or wrong-headed. But one doesn't have to respect them.

 

[Gucumatz]

Its silly there still are people who deny the holocaust. Likewise, its silly how Israel still denies the Armenian Holocaust's existence.

 

[dragonprobably]

I remember seeing a video of George Lincoln Rockwell (huge American Neo-Nazi leader) denying the Holocaust in an interview and a Jewish man stood up in the crowd and said how could it be a fake if I was there?

I'd show you the video, but I have a thing against looking up things related to the Neo-Nazis on YouTube. I know I'm going to find things I regret seeing.

 

[History_Buff]

You may not believe we landed on the Moon. You may not believe Oswald killed Kennedy. But the Holocaust is definitely one of the "facts" of history. Holocaust-denial usually involves truely moronic ignorance or antisemitism.

You are giving far too much credence to Moon Landing Conspiracy Theorists. Moon Landing denial usually just involves truly moronic ignorance and little else, but that's no reason to give it a pass.

 

[Cutlass]

Its silly there still are people who deny the holocaust. Likewise, its silly how Israel still denies the Armenian Holocaust's existence.

Israel?

 

[Dachs]

Israel?

It's hard to stay good friends with Turkey without also tacitly denying that the Armenian genocide took place.

Israel is very good friends with Turkey.

 

[Traitorfish]

I wonder, are there any Nazis out there who don't deny the Holocaust, but in fact actively revel in it? You'd think that there'd be at least a few who feel getting to boast about ten million dead untermenschen is worth giving up the change to whine about Jueo-Bolsheviks exaggerating the number of bodies or whatever.

 

[Kyriakos]

I do not have any reason at all to think that the genocide of Jews in ww2 did not happen.

But so did other genocides, like the Armenian and the Pontic Greek one (both by Turks).

Moreover Stalin and Mao also commited mass-murdering of people in their communist regimes, and it is not in dispute at all that both in Stalinist Russia, as in Maoist China, the numbers murdered by far exceeded that of the jewish people murdered in ww2.

So i do not think the Jewish genocide should be the only one presented as important. "Holocaust" is a bad term for it too, in my view, since it means "utter burning" (from the greek term olokauston, that means wholly/utterly burned). So it does seem to single out that one genocide, which in my view is as worthy of being remembered and seen as something barbarous as any other genocide is as well.

 

[Tahuti]

I wonder, are there any Nazis out there who don't deny the Holocaust, but in fact actively revel in it? You'd think that there'd be at least a few who feel getting to boast about ten million dead untermenschen is worth giving up the change to whine about Jueo-Bolsheviks exaggerating the number of bodies or whatever.

I remember that there was a German Nazi Black Metal band named Absurd who did exactly that.

It's hard to stay good friends with Turkey without also tacitly denying that the Armenian genocide took place.

Israel is very good friends with Turkey.

Israel does neither recognize it or deny it, pretty much like the USA and Britain. They are indeed too close to Turkey (and Azerbaijan) to recognize it, but likewise, outright denying it would arguably not go well with popular opinion in Israel. Individual politicians like Shimon Peres do deny it, but it isn't the stance of Israel as a whole. Besides, radical factions within Likud and Yisroel Beitenoe who oppose ties with the Muslim world may be sympathetic to the Armenians - though it's plainly suicidal from an Israeli foreign policy perspective and thus a fringe position.

 

[Kyriakos]

Israel does neither recognize it or deny it, pretty much like the USA and Britain.

This seems to be a bit misleading, given that in Britain all the regional parliaments (in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland) have already recognised the Armenian Genocide. Britain consists of those three entities, along with England, which does not have its own regional parliament.

Moreover in the USA, it seems that 43 out of the 50 states have recongised the Armenian Genocide as well...

On the contrary there is no official ruling in Israel recognising the Armenian genocide.

So in my view your claim is indeed misleading.

 

[Traitorfish]

Moreover Stalin and Mao also commited mass-murdering of people in their communist regimes, and it is not in dispute at all that both in Stalinist Russia, as in Maoist China, the numbers murdered by far exceeded that of the jewish people murdered in ww2.

"Not disputed" insofar as no legitimate historian would make that claim that Stalin and Mao deliberately killed anything like the number of people who died in the Holocaust, so there is nothing to dispute.

We could claim that the total number of needless deaths under those regimes, as a result of the Ukrainian famine, purges, Great Leap Forward, etc., exceeded those under the Nazi government, but to compare this so directly with the Holocaust would be to suggest that the Holocaust was not a matter of malice or ideology, but simply of incompetence and indifference, something which I would be very wary of suggesting, because it seems a subtle form of Holocaust denial itself.

 

[Kyriakos]

"Not disputed" insofar as no legitimate historian would make that claim that Stalin and Mao deliberately killed anything like the number of people who died in the Holocaust, so there is nothing to dispute.

We could claim that the total number of needless deaths under those regimes, as a result of the Ukrainian famine, purges, Great Leap Forward, etc., exceeded those under the Nazi government, but to compare this so directly with the Holocaust would be to suggest that the Holocaust was not a matter of malice or ideology, but simply of incompetence and indifference, something which I would be very wary of suggesting, because it seems a subtle form of Holocaust denial itself.

I do not think most people claim that the millions who died in soviet Russia or communist China of those times did die out of "incompetence and indifference". It seems a bit like Stalinist/Maoist-apologizing to me...
Regardless, i will not let you derail the argument, which is about the need to recognize all genocides of millions as important, not single out one and not recognize the rest.
As posted by me in the first post in the thread, the existence of the Jewish genocide in ww2 is not in denial at all. Time for the rest of the genocides to be recognized as well

 

[Traitorfish]

I do not think most people claim that the millions who died in soviet Russia or communist China of those times did die out of "incompetence and indifference". It seems a bit like Stalinist/Maoist-apologizing to me...

Well, you'd be wrong.

Regardless, i will not let you derail the argument, which is about the need to recognize all genocides of millions as important, not single out one and not recognize the rest.
As posted by me in the first post in the thread, the existence of the Jewish genocide in ww2 is not in denial at all. Time for the rest of the genocides to be recognized as well

You derailed your own argument when you started bringing deaths that had nothing to do with genocide into a discussion about genocide.

 

[Kyriakos]

You derailed your own argument when you started bringing deaths that had nothing to do with genocide into a discussion about genocide.

Ok, you win I hope now we can discuss the issue of hypocricy in recognising one genocide, and not recognising another genocide, and also the hyper-hypocrisy of Israel not recognizing a real genocide, when its own real genocide is recognized.

 

[Tahuti]

This seems to be a bit misleading, given that in Britain all the regional parliaments (in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland) have already recognised the Armenian Genocide. Britain consists of those three entities, along with England, which does not have its own regional parliament.

Moreover in the USA, it seems that 43 out of the 50 states have recongised the Armenian Genocide as well...

All true, except that the House of Commons and Congress have never passed motions to this effect, and these speak for the nation. It's like saying Israel denies the Armenian genocide because Shimon Peres said so, despite plently of politicians acknoledging it.