House Approves Flag-Burning Amendment

[Raijer]

I am an American, and am totally opposed to this amendment. Like a few others who have posted here, I too served the U.S. in the military, and was sworn to protect the Contitution. This amazing piece of paper was one of the reasons I joined. This proposed amendment runs contrary to the ideals put forth in this document, especially the First Amendment, and is far more "Un-American" than any flag in flames can ever be.

The flag is a symbol, a representation of a very real American ideal: freedom. If the flag is burned and destroyed, the real thing it represents - Freedom - is not. But this amendment threatens to strike down and kill the real thing - it will destroy Freedom itself! If Freedom itself is destroyed, what will the flag represent then? NOTHING!!! The very thing it represented is gone, dead, which renders the flag meaningless. With the passing of this utterly Un-American amendment, BOTH Freedom AND the flag which represents it, will be destroyed - all under the ironic auspices of "protecting the flag!"

 

[Smellincoffee]

I don't believe in flag-burnings -- of any kind. I don't care if it's the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack, the French tricolor, whatever. To me, flag-burning is an expression of utter contempt, something so vile that it shouldn't be witnessed.

 

[Bootstoots]

I don't believe in flag-burnings -- of any kind. I don't care if it's the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack, the French tricolor, whatever. To me, flag-burning is an expression of utter contempt, something so vile that it shouldn't be witnessed.

What's the matter with expressing utter contempt? And why should the expression of contempt be banned?

 

[Smellincoffee]

Because I'm naive enough to think that everyone should at least try to come to terms with each other without resorting to acting like boors.

 

[stratego]

I'm an American and I have Two Questions: I need them answered before I can decide.

1. Does this amendment apply to cutting up of the flag? What if I want to cut up a flag and make a patriotic suit out of it, can I do it? What if I want to make a patriotic underwear out of the flag? What if I want to patriotically wipe my ass with the flag? I love freedom.

2. Can someone burn a picture of the flag that they have drawn? What if it's a really good picture, that's drawn on fabric?

 

[stratego]

There's a really famous quote:

"I do not agree with what you say, so you'll have to defend to your death your right to say it."

 

[Rik Meleet]

I don't believe in flag-burnings -- of any kind. I don't care if it's the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack, the French tricolor, whatever. To me, flag-burning is an expression of utter contempt, something so vile that it shouldn't be witnessed.

Which is also off-topic here. It's about writing in your constitution the criminality of it.

I support the "no articles in the constitution which don't belong there".
see the parallel with the EU-constution-proposal which also would have so many articles in there which don't belong there ??

 

[Rambuchan]

This outrages me. Does our government believe itself to be sacred, and it's emblems holy relics? The serious consideration of this amendment shows that our government seems to think itself above the realm of mere men. Even worse, millions of tax dollars are being spent on the consideration of this absolutely rubbish piece of "legislation".

Your position is completely understandable. I would make the same comments, especially about the wastage of tax payers money on debating how to treat a piece of cloth.

I said I wouldn't return but this is just to provide some non-American input. 3 comments:

- If freedom is such a massive virtue to Americans, why is there such a debate about whether someone can burn a flag or not? If it has to be debated at such length, do Americans REALLY have a grasp on what it is to be free? Do they not realise the totalitarian overtones in such prissy attitudes to a flag?

- Was your first Amendment too limp in its jurisdiction? Is it too vulnerable? Open to expolitation and contradiction? Why is there always such a debate about the first amendment? We have a saying in the UK - "If it's broken fix it" and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." You've have long enough to decide whether it is broke or not. Why do you go on guffing about it all the time?

- What is weirdiest though is that this thread has raged on all through the (UK) night and I have woken up to find it still at the top of OT. Does this not strike you Americans as narcissistic navel gazing????? Especially given all the more pressing matters in the world?

If America were a patient of a psychiatrist, their nonsensical, fixation and infatuation with their star spangled banner would certainly raise an eyebrow. You guys are simply nuts .

EDIT - Where is the "I am not American and I think you are all crazy" poll option?

 

[CruddyLeper]

Hey, I just thought of some legit input.

If it will be illegal to burn the flag, will it be OK to urinate on it - to put a fire out? Or at least stop a potential fire from happening?

 

[amadeus]

We could also require High School diplomas, but that wouldn't be right, would it?

People that don't have high school diplomas generally don't want this country to be destroyed.

Moderator Action: Off topic - Rik

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

While the US Flag represents the United States of America, it is far more than that. It is a symbol of freedom and the spirit of democracy.

Those who would burn this symbol of freedom are truly vile people who have no understanding or respect for what it represents. They deface freedom, democracy and all the good these concepts represent. They should be ostracized for their wrongdoing.

However, those who seek to make flag-burning illegal are doing something far more sinister and dangerous; for they are not destroying a symbol of freedom, but destroying freedom itself.

 

[amadeus]

Freedom has long since died.

A third of our GDP is being spent by the government. Heck, we've got more people working for the Department of Agriculture than we do working on farms. There's compulsory program after another that we have to enroll ourselves in.

What freedom is this?

 

[ComradeDavo]

While the US Flag represents the United States of America, it is far more than that. It is a symbol of freedom and the spirit of democracy.

Those who would burn this symbol of freedom are truly vile people who have no understanding or respect for what it represents. They deface freedom, democracy and all the good these concepts represent. They should be ostracized for their wrongdoing.

However, those who seek to make flag-burning illegal are doing something far more sinister and dangerous; for they are not destroying a symbol of freedom, but destroying freedom itself.

When I see an American flag I don't think about freedom and Democracy, I think of McDonalds and Bush. I don't think people burning it are vile, I think they are showing their discontent with the country, how it revolves around capitalism and celebrity. Also, I for one don't think the American electoral system is democratic (not that I think much of the UK's either, but thats a different issue) and of course the flag is associated with it. Burning it can demonstrate dissafaction with the whole system in general.

Agreed about 'destroying freedom itself'.

 

[Uiler]

You know what? Flag burning is illegal in China. Yet it is not illegal in Western democratic countries like Australia and UK. I guess this is just another sign that the US is moving further and further away from the democratic ideal and closer to China.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Not overly, there's no real point to it. Anyway, no one has ever been able to achieve anything by burning a flag. Not counting making opposition to the act, or getting yourself caught on fire.

Actually, people have been able to achieve things by burning flags - media coverage.

Normal citizen wants to voice their anger at the adminsitration - media doesn't care.

Normal citizen burns American flag outside of Whitehouse - get a news crew down their straight away!

It's a sad situation but it's true.

 

[EzInKy]

To me, flag-burning is an expression of utter contempt, something so vile that it shouldn't be witnessed.

Protesters burn flags to express their utter contempt for the actions of their government, which is precisely why there should not be an amendment against it. Chalking myself up as an American against.

 

[Uiler]

Personally I find it funny that most of the people supporting the amendment probably would have absolutely no problems with say Chinese protestors burning the Chinese flag in protest against government oppression or the Iranian people burning the Iranian flag in protest against the theocratic government or the N. Koreans burning N. Korean flag in protest against their oppressive government. In fact if the Chinese/Iranian/N. Korean cracked down on the flag-burners they would be the first to condemn those governments for violating the rights of the protestors. The difference between America and those countries - well at least until today is that in America (and the UK and Australia) if you burn the flag they can't punish you because you have a little thing known as freedom of speech. Well, at least that *was* the difference.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

When I see an American flag I don't think about freedom and Democracy, I think of McDonalds and Bush.

Yes, and when some people look at a rose they see a thorney plant that really hurts if you grab it around the stem. They should see a beautiful flower.

The American Flag is much older than McDonalds or Bush. They do NOT represent America: one is just a company and one is just the current President. The Flag has been around since the beginning. Since the original concept was adopted, It only changes when a new state is added. One must see It for what it should (and does) represent: freedom and democracy.

Understand some don't see that, and that is why they burn this important and revered symbol. I just think they are wronger than the word wronger.


Generally we have moved freedom forward in this country. I can't believe so many want to move backwards! Need to go email Sen Levin to help ensure he doesn't vote for this stupid amendment.

 

[CruddyLeper]

Maybe what is needed is legislation to make all flags fire retardent.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Yes, and when some people look at a rose they see a thorney plant that really hurts if you grab it around the stem. They should see a beautiful flower.

The American Flag is much older than McDonalds or Bush. They do NOT represent America: one is just a company and one is just the current President. The Flag has been around since the beginning. Since the original concept was adopted, It only changes when a new state is added. One must see It for what it should (and does) represent: freedom and democracy.

Understand some don't see that, and that is why they burn this important and revered symbol. I just think they are wronger than the word wronger.


Generally we have moved freedom forward in this country. I can't believe so many want to move backwards! Need to go email Sen Levin to help ensure he doesn't vote for this stupid amendment.

I find it strange how someone can become so fond of a flag, but anyway I'm glad you oppose the admendment.

To me burning the American flag is saying 'I am unhappy with America!'.

I don't think the US flag represents freedom or whatever, I think it represent's the US, because that after all is the purpose of national flags.