Housing, Homelessness and Poverty

Any place between tenants is considered vacant by government numbers. If a tenant moved out March 10th and one has a lease signed to move in April 1st, for those 3 weeks in between, it will be counted as “vacant housing.” It is clearly not.
so i'll just ask straightforwardly here. there's been two stories presented to me; one is people often dealing with politics or finance (on a theoretical level) who says there's actually a lot of vacant homes; you say here the numbers are inherently fudged because of lease issues or somesuch. are you saying the former are missing a simple puzzle piece or lying to me?

and no, i'm not talking about san francisco.
 
so i'll just ask straightforwardly here. there's been two stories presented to me; one is people often dealing with politics or finance (on a theoretical level) who says there's actually a lot of vacant homes; you say here the numbers are inherently fudged because of lease issues or somesuch. are you saying the former are missing a simple puzzle piece or lying to me?

and no, i'm not talking about san francisco.
They aren’t lying and their numbers aren’t fudged, but they are missing some details. Think about ‘disaster photography’ (I hate that term but w/e) of condemned houses in Detroit/Baltimore/St Louis/etc. Those are “vacant homes.” They are also untenable for anyone to reside in. A home unoccupied for a couple months in summer between college students is a “vacant home.” So yes, just using our vacant homes is not the solution.

Edit: Plus our goal should be abundant housing, not just enough. People should be able to move easily. Tenants should have power over landlords, not vice versa. There should be so much housing that property owners are in a race to the bottom for rental prices. Landlords should be desperate for tenants and not the other way around (obviously a Utopia has none but you know, start somewhere).
 
I would add to the housing shortage issue, so much of the housing that is being built in places where there are actually jobs is explicitly built as an investment vehicle for the global superrich. Those big luxury towers in Manhattan consume resources that could be used to house people. But that is a broader conversation about how the mere existence of the superrich distorts markets across the board.
 
There is some empty property that could be put to better use

Spoiler 'Billionaires Row': inside Hampstead palaces left empty for decades :
A thick crust of bird droppings is piled on the gilded balustrade of one of Britain's most expensive properties. Pigeon skeletons lie among shattered mirrors and water streams through broken cornicing. This is The Tower, a £30m palace in "Billionaires Row" in north London whose spectacular ruin has been kept secret until now.

It is a desolate scene repeated up and down the supposedly prestigious avenue that Lloyds Bank has calculated is the second most expensive street in Britain. While more and more people struggle to get on to London's property ladder as house prices rise at 11.2% a year, the Guardian has established that 16 mansions on the most expensive stretch of The Bishops Avenue are sitting empty, many behind padlocked gates, with their windows shuttered with steel grilles and overgrown grounds patrolled by guard dogs.

Land Registry records show the portfolio [of the 10 mansions sold last October for a combined £73m] was assembled between 1989 and 1993, around the time Saddam Hussein's sabre rattling in the Gulf threatened the House of Saud. The deal on the boltholes was brokered by Rafic Hariri, the future prime minister of Lebanon, who at that time was working as a Saudi envoy, sources familiar with the transaction say. Five identical mansions were snapped up for £1.5m each along with the palatial Tower – built on the site of the former home of the 1940s film star Gracie Fields – and three neighbouring mansions. But after Saddam was beaten back, the Saudis let dilapidation take hold.

The waste is spectacular. In the grounds, stone fountains crumble and lawns have become bogs. Inside the Georgian mansion water drips through a huge crystal chandelier on to a thick carpet rotting under sections of collapsed ceiling. Moss grows through shattered bricks and mirrored tiles are scattered across a bathroom. An odour of fermentation pervades neighbouring Redcroft and the only signs of life are an old and jammed Arabic Olympia typewriter and a hotel-style sign warning: "Visitors may be asked to submit to a search of person or baggage by security staff." The swimming pool is filled with a foot of brackish water and has flowers growing through its tiles. Wooden slats bulge away from the sauna. Behind the rotting ranch-style shutters of Ilkley House, a tiled peacock remains intact in the pool house but dead plants droop from hanging baskets. A sheaf of invoices reveals a £7,314.54 order for kitchen equipment made in September 1992 including a Robot Juicerator, teak salad servers and a melon baller.

But it is the wreck of The Towers, a grand mansion set in acres of hornbeams, oaks and limes, that is most dramatic, with its huge, high-ceiling halls occupied by pigeons and its walls turned bright green by algae as water pours through three storeys and plinks into a vast, empty basement swimming pool. Unopened wooden crates marked "bullet proof glass" reveal the security fears of the previous owners.

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I love how the marketeers point to the history of public housing in the US as if that was ever a good-faith attempt to solve a problem and not just a way to warehouse pesky blacks
Yeah, the racial segregation in my neighborhood jumps right out at you. I think the neighborhood overall is something like 50% White, 25% Latino, 15% Black, but you don't need to be especially perceptive to see how it sorts out.
 
In places where this is the case while there's a housing shortage, the result is still unsatisfactory for most tenants. e.g.

Cash for keys: Some tenants who face eviction demand thousands from landlords amid tribunal delays
is happening at the same time as
Average 1-bedroom in Toronto climbs over $2,600 with Canadian rent at all-time high
I don’t know the intricacies of the laws at place here, but I will say also that Toronto has arguably the worst housing shortage of like any city in the world, so it isn’t really great for tenants at all.
 
Ah, well this is a much bigger open statement on politics and society. Should citizens go out fixing pot holes in the road? I will assume you views differ considerably to mine, and that's fine.
What's the road? As is, I have roads maintained by the brother of my high school English teacher. I go to the annual meeting. I usually am one of less than 10 people who show. We take votes on issues, taxes, budgets, the scope of business. So yes, somebody needs to fix the damned potholes.
 
I don’t know the intricacies of the laws at place here, but I will say also that Toronto has arguably the worst housing shortage of like any city in the world, so it isn’t really great for tenants at all.

It's awful for tenants in general, but if you're a tenant who chooses to stop paying rent and ignore an eviction order, you have a lot of power over your landlord because it can take years for the landlord and tenant board to take any action.
 
There is some empty property that could be put to better use

Spoiler 'Billionaires Row': inside Hampstead palaces left empty for decades :
A thick crust of bird droppings is piled on the gilded balustrade of one of Britain's most expensive properties. Pigeon skeletons lie among shattered mirrors and water streams through broken cornicing. This is The Tower, a £30m palace in "Billionaires Row" in north London whose spectacular ruin has been kept secret until now.

It is a desolate scene repeated up and down the supposedly prestigious avenue that Lloyds Bank has calculated is the second most expensive street in Britain. While more and more people struggle to get on to London's property ladder as house prices rise at 11.2% a year, the Guardian has established that 16 mansions on the most expensive stretch of The Bishops Avenue are sitting empty, many behind padlocked gates, with their windows shuttered with steel grilles and overgrown grounds patrolled by guard dogs.

Land Registry records show the portfolio [of the 10 mansions sold last October for a combined £73m] was assembled between 1989 and 1993, around the time Saddam Hussein's sabre rattling in the Gulf threatened the House of Saud. The deal on the boltholes was brokered by Rafic Hariri, the future prime minister of Lebanon, who at that time was working as a Saudi envoy, sources familiar with the transaction say. Five identical mansions were snapped up for £1.5m each along with the palatial Tower – built on the site of the former home of the 1940s film star Gracie Fields – and three neighbouring mansions. But after Saddam was beaten back, the Saudis let dilapidation take hold.

The waste is spectacular. In the grounds, stone fountains crumble and lawns have become bogs. Inside the Georgian mansion water drips through a huge crystal chandelier on to a thick carpet rotting under sections of collapsed ceiling. Moss grows through shattered bricks and mirrored tiles are scattered across a bathroom. An odour of fermentation pervades neighbouring Redcroft and the only signs of life are an old and jammed Arabic Olympia typewriter and a hotel-style sign warning: "Visitors may be asked to submit to a search of person or baggage by security staff." The swimming pool is filled with a foot of brackish water and has flowers growing through its tiles. Wooden slats bulge away from the sauna. Behind the rotting ranch-style shutters of Ilkley House, a tiled peacock remains intact in the pool house but dead plants droop from hanging baskets. A sheaf of invoices reveals a £7,314.54 order for kitchen equipment made in September 1992 including a Robot Juicerator, teak salad servers and a melon baller.

But it is the wreck of The Towers, a grand mansion set in acres of hornbeams, oaks and limes, that is most dramatic, with its huge, high-ceiling halls occupied by pigeons and its walls turned bright green by algae as water pours through three storeys and plinks into a vast, empty basement swimming pool. Unopened wooden crates marked "bullet proof glass" reveal the security fears of the previous owners.

Rob-Booth-story.-008.jpg

Rob-Booth-story.-013.jpg

Rob-Booth-story.-006.jpg

Rob-Booth-story.-008.jpg


10 years old article. Just as relevant now as then. With the rise in property value, the owners made fantastic sums for literally doing nothing but wait.
 
What's the road? As is, I have roads maintained by the brother of my high school English teacher. I go to the annual meeting. I usually am one of less than 10 people who show. We take votes on issues, taxes, budgets, the scope of business. So yes, somebody needs to fix the damned potholes.

So why fix potholes, but not the homeless issue?
 
We should. You should, personally, if it's one of your things. The potholes are only temporarily fixed, of course. And the commissioner isn't young. He'll need replaced with a different life in place, at some point.
 
Housing is important but it is also the slowest and most expensive path to help those in poverty. While waiting for new homes, there is lots of other important things to be done. There are at least two housing issues. One is homes for the homeless living on the street and the other is affordable homes for those who are working and want to move out of apartments and into their first home. Solving both at the same time is unlikely. Which should take priority?
Solving both is a single solution. And without that, you get neither.

Problem: Demand for housing exceeds cost of housing.

Result of problem: Housing prices become unaffordable, and people are simply priced out of having a place to live.

Solution: Build enough new housing so that it becomes affordable.

Everything else is just throwing your hands in the air and living with the status quo on the excuse that nothing can be done about it.
 
Everyone complains about homeless people but no one has an actual solution beyond "make them go away".

There's a solution but you can't really get it passed due to both sides. Basically.

Tax goes up.

Nationwide government funded building programs. At capacity building industry wise what we are building though combined with.....

Lower immigration (US, Canada, NZ. Australia not sure about UK). Here you could cut it by about 75%. We need sone immigration.

State funded rehab, therapy, counseling etc.

Institutions for those with serious unfixable problems.

Here they got rid of 4 due to abuse problems and probably money.
 
I would add to the housing shortage issue, so much of the housing that is being built in places where there are actually jobs is explicitly built as an investment vehicle for the global superrich. Those big luxury towers in Manhattan consume resources that could be used to house people. But that is a broader conversation about how the mere existence of the superrich distorts markets across the board.

Here's it's a lot of red rape and economics.

Eg it costs roughly the same to connect a new house big or small to electricity grid and water. More money in middle class housing tgan smaller affordable units.

Other thing is we don't really have slums here a'la over seas. Think US projects, Estates in UK.

The government passed a heap of laws for minimum standards. Side effect its illegal to build cheap housing.

International standards our housing is sub standard. Central heating is rare but most of the country it's 10-25 degrees year round.
 
*random news item*

MODESTO — Hidden homeless caves tucked along the Tuolumne River were cleared out by volunteer groups and the Modesto Police Department over the weekend.
Volunteers from Operation 9-2-99 and the Tuolumne River Trust partnered with the Modesto Police Department to clear out 7,600 pounds of trash. They also had two truckloads and a trailer of garbage that were removed from the area.
The caves were located across the street from Crater Avenue, about 20 feet below street level, accessible via makeshift stairs built into the hillside.
...
"This particular area has been plagued by vagrancy and illegal camps, which have raised concerns due to the fact that these camps were actually dug into the riverbanks," Modesto police said in a statement.


not sure if desperate or ingenious that you have the ability to make your own cave to live in.
I also love how there's some trepidation about filling them in because they'll just be dug back out again...
 
If so, I have to tell you that you are being at least severely tone-deaf here.
How so? I live in a city with both a homeless problem and a housing problem. I do know what it takes to develop land into both single family homes and apartments; and it is very hard. I also have some understanding of how homelessness is not a one size fits all situation. I see the situation in a broader perspective as a poverty problem. Lots of folks here see things differently. Oh well.
 
Another problem is the Investment firms buying up "Undervalued" apartment buildings and increasing rent in order to get increasing returns for their investors and/or shareholders.
 
Another problem is the Investment firms buying up "Undervalued" apartment buildings and increasing rent in order to get increasing returns for their investors and/or shareholders.
Yup.
 
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