[BTS] How can you tackle this map?

[Hikogamesh]

Hi all, (sorry if it is not appropriate to create a new post like this here.)
I am still new to the game and struggling with noble difficulty.

Here I have uploaded the map I played three times and still have no idea how to win any type of victory.

Besides the tiles and resources that I guess are not particularly great, the biggest problem is Shaka being my neighbor. Eliminating or suppressing Shaka itself may not be such a big deal, but by the time I have managed to achieve that goal somehow, I only find myself so hopelessly far behind in tech and power from Pacal, who is across the ocean.

Anyone has some good spare time to kill? I would really want someone to play the save file and give me some idea about how to win a victory with this map.

Cheers,

 

[lymond]

Hello! You indeed came to the very right place for advice.

We can basically use this start for a shadow game getting advice from the beginning, It is good that you used normal settings, although we advise turning off huts/events as well. But we can work with this.

Just for perspective, as you appear new to the game, with just an increased understanding and practice of some key basic concepts you really should dominate AIs on Noble level. AI are generally rather docile on lower levels, even the Shakas, so that should not be a problem once you do things better overall. First key point to learn is that the early game is crucial, so you need to make better decisions from the starts.

Also, when posting a game it is recommend to post a starting screenshot like so:

Spoiler :

Many of us can give some advice even from the screenshot as to how to start without even opening the save.

(As a sidenote, do you use BUG/BULL. If not, you can still install it (Custom Asset mod) and use it with this game as no mod is actually loaded).

First thing to consider at the start is analyzing the start location(map), resources, and making a decision on moving the starting warrior or scout to give a better view.. Then one can make a decision on whether to Settle in Place (SIP) or move to a location that may offer more benefit in some way.

In this case, two things stand out to me as I analyze this start. SIP gives the city a lot of rivers and some flood plains when are nice for capitals to develop cottages for Bureaucracy later on. Yet, I see a plains hill (PH) to the N, which while coastal, keeps deer and sheep, while the PH adds a bonus hammer to the city center tile for faster early production - always nice. However, I tend to avoid settling coastal if I can so I'm not inclined to move usually. And this cap looks pretty juicy with the flood plains and river tiles.

In my case, I moved my warrior on the PH to see surrounding tiles. Very nice up there, with faster start potential, but likewise could make for a nice city later - two actually.

So, I think I would just settle in place here. We at least have some forest to chop for faster production. Sheep is the only food special and FOOD is always your priority. However, Wang's techs are not ideal for an AH start. One could consider going straight to Bronze Worker (BW) here and just start chopping, or one could go Agriculture (AG) > Animal Husbandry(AH) and then BW. Worker can farm a floodplain early while waiting on AH. This is probably the path I would take here so that we emphasize food for you, which is so important.

And with that said, another bit of key advice is that you will almost always build a worker first in most situations..really very few exceptions that guideline, other than some coastal starts maybe.

I may play a few turns of this myself to show you, but based on what I just describe, you could start again here and maybe play a small turnset until the worker pops and report back for more advice.

(edit: just a bit of advice since you have huts on. A hut appears just below the starting location. Best to let your borders expand to pop the hut for better results than running your warrior down to grab it first. Warriors give poorer results that scouts and border pops, and you will not be building scouts - at all)

 

[Hikogamesh]

Hi, lymond! Surprised by such a quick reply! I had already learned some of the stuff you mentioned at this forum and elsewhere but thanks a lot for taking time and giving me a all those tips!

One thing I never thought was moving the warrior north to the hill cause I thought by moving them SE I could kill the fog closer to the settler and get a better view of the surrounding.

Anyways, I will try to start again with this map, play some early turns and report back to you.

Cheers!

 

[lymond]

I assume you mean move the Warrior 1SW (i'm directionally challenged myself ). And actually there is much logic in that move as well. The first move is about finding more information to improve your settling decision.

But one must consider several factors in this regard. First you are not going to move away from food, well such that it would not be in your Big Fat Cross (BFC) at all. In other words, the focal point of any decision at this stage is the sheep. That is the driver right now for your settling decision.

Placement of that warrior or scout, and the viewable area you are presented play a factor as well. So in one respect, we know the warrior isn't going to give very much info regardless. He is N of the settler and there is no hill to step onto - to W and S, which usually reveals more tiles.

Taking into consideration where the settler currently stands - again with the info we are given - we have sheep right there, we are next to a river, lots of river tiles..and we know from fog gazing that we have 4 flood plains for this city. So there is nothing right now that I see that tells me that I would want to move that settler.

Moving the Warrior 1SW reveals a fogged tile in the BFC. Could be a resource. But I already know that I'm likely not moving the settler anyway. So the moving that first unit is often about revealing tiles that you may lose if you do decide to move the settler - a justification for moving 1SW. Now, again, the only thing here that peaks my interest is that PH to the N. I know from fog gazing that the site would be coastal, but the PH provides a bonus while keeping the sheep and adding the deer for more food. And actually, as you already know from playing, that site also has a corn and a fish. Very nice - and likely an area to fit two cities in later. Also, there is an argument here for a slight faster start from the bonus PH hammer and technically one could delay AH. (Ofc, one loses two turns by moving there as well)

However, as I said earlier, I'm not inclined to move coastal for start caps - I often even move away. And well, this starting location is quite sweet for Bureaucracy. So I think SIP is best.

So ultimately when it came to moving the warrior I simply decided to move to a spot that would reveal the most information even though it did not necessarily affect my settling decision since SIP was already deemed strongest, in my opinion. In other words, we are already going to reveal the tile 1SW simply by settling. In contrast, if something was viewable like more tiles in the south area, or I could see that was not coast up there, such that I was seriously considering moving the settler, then I likely would move the warrior 1SW just to determine if I would lose something nice there by moving.

Ha..I realize that is a lot of analysis and thinking there, but hopefully by virtue of my verbal explosion here you can see the valuable of analyzing the start and making these decisions. Some starts present far more complex decisions.

edit: bottom line though is you can't really go wrong with SIP generally, but you can often improve your situation by using some analysis at the start and possibly moving the settler if a tangible benefit is recognized.

 

[Gumbolt]

Yes SIP. Financial leader who can spam cottages around capital long term. Could well be hidden resources around the forest too.