How do you feel about having to use Steam? (Poll)

[Sadan01]

If Steam were completely optional, I'd probably like it. Since it is compulsory: strongly negative.

I agree with this. I use Steam for other games but I don't think it quite works with Civ. I do like the absolute freedom with mods that we had with Civ IV and I don't think V gives us that freedom considering everything is attached to Steam(Works). For everyone against something, there'll be someone for it I know.

The fact that I use Steam for other games means I don't completely disagree with the model that Steam provides. However, for Civilization, I'd prefer it to be completely optional to tie it into Steam.

 

[Vladesch]

If you "can not" patch the game using steam, it means you have a pirated copy

Maybe he has no internet, or is behind a firewall at work.

Slightly negative to me. I wonder what happens if steam goes the way of General motors or lehman brothers.
And dont tell me it will never happen. Im sure thats what far more knowledgeable financial minds said about GM.

I hate having to get permission from a server to play my SP game.

 

[The Judgemental]

I don't mind using steam for civ V, started really playing civ IV when i bought on steam after buying empire TW so it's okay. Kinda like the achievements makes me play someone other that Rome

 

[jamicu]

For me it's a bit more complicated. I had Steam for Mount&Blade Warband and Empire:TotalWar, and was happy with it. So no problems with CiV using it, but I purchased the DVD version from an internet retailer.

Then came the first DLC and I was surprised to find steam wouldn't accept my UK debit card.
Googling seems to show it's linked with Steam being an American company and debit cards being linked with kids in the USA? So credit cards are seen as proof of age in the USA? Whatever the reason might actually be it came as a surprise and left me worried about the decision to choose steam to sell dlc globally. I could use one of my credit cards but am not happy about being forced to do so just for a dlc.

Just seen steam are doing a 'Free Weekend' for [two games]. So I can safely download and play em for the next couple of days knowing that even if I am tempted to buy, having to use my credit card would put me off.

 

[Maniacal]

Then came the first DLC and I was surprised to find steam wouldn't accept my UK debit card.
Googling seems to show it's linked with Steam being an American company and debit cards being linked with kids in the USA? So credit cards are seen as proof of age in the USA? Whatever the reason might actually be it came as a surprise and left me worried about the decision to choose steam to sell dlc globally. I could use one of my credit cards but am not happy about being forced to do so just for a dlc.

Just seen steam are doing a 'Free Weekend' for [two games]. So I can safely download and play em for the next couple of days knowing that even if I am tempted to buy, having to use my credit card would put me off.

Its standard practice for companies to not accept debit cards, I'm surprised this is a surprise to you. I'd never think about using my debit card for an online purchase, but it probably changes between different countries. You could try using PayPal as they accept debit and VALVe/Steam accepts Paypal, but paypal charges a small fee (also don't cancel the payment before it goes through, otherwise it sets off Steam's fraud detection and it will lock your account). EDIT: The post below is an example of PayPal screwing the customer over.

The only paid DLC so far is just Babylon anyways, so its not like you're missing out on much (except paying too much money for the content, I hate paid DLC).

 

[Panda_Power]

I voted somewhat negative, but that's just because I had a bad experience with Steam and actually it was more PayPal's fault, so I can't really blame Steam.

Long story short:

• delayed buying game thru Steam because I'm a Brit in China and IP address doesn't match billing address
• Steam removed IP check on account
• bought game via PayPal
• week later PayPal reversed the payment (thought it was fraud)
• Steam banned my PayPal account and Steam account (Steam thought I'd deliberately cancelled the payment, but I didn't know it had been reversed until it was too late)
• Steam refused to reinstate old account after explaining what happened
• Setup new Steam account
• delayed buying game thru Steam because I'm a Brit in China and IP address doesn't match billing address
• Steam removed IP check on new account
• bought game for the 2nd time via Visa

At the end of the day it was a PayPal problem and they should have notified me they were planning to reverse the payment, but I received no notification whatsoever. Strange for them because I've been with them for years and never had a problem.

The thing that got me with Steam though is that they were so adamant about not being able to or not wanting to reinstate my old account and in their words:

.....the Steam account will remain locked and you will lose access to all of the games on the account. There are no options to resolve a dispute once PayPal has closed the case.....

.....fortunately Civ 5 was the first game I'd ever bought thru Steam so it was the only one I lost, but if I'd been with them for years and had a whole library of games....!!

Fingers crossed I don't have any further problems with Civ 5, but I will be really reluctant in the future to expand on my library of 1 game because they can take away your access to all games so easily irrespective of which game there is a problem with.

That's why I voted somewhat negative and I'm sure mine is a very rare experience, but it does make you think...

 

[vauge]

Steam is the worst thing to happen to the Civ franchise. I do not impulse buy. Those ads on launch are damn annoying. It slows my machine down. I have no other games on Steam so to me it is a complete waste of time and resources.

Make it optional and I might reconsider when they make a Linux version.

 

[Jharii]

The thing that got me with Steam though is that they were so adamant about not being able to or not wanting to reinstate my old account and in their words:

Quote:
.....the Steam account will remain locked and you will lose access to all of the games on the account. There are no options to resolve a dispute once PayPal has closed the case.....

.....fortunately Civ 5 was the first game I'd ever bought thru Steam so it was the only one I lost, but if I'd been with them for years and had a whole library of games....!!

Sounds like PayPal is a contributing factor to this as well, likely because of security reasons. Neither side can legally guarantee to the other that your account has not been compromised. It's just an educated guess, but I don't use PayPal any longer because of a similar situation that I had with eBay.

 

[jamicu]

Its standard practice for companies to not accept debit cards, I'm surprised this is a surprise to you.

That first statement is clearly not true, so I guess you were referring to internet purchases? As I said there in my first post, it appears debit cards on not accepted for internet purchases by most (all?) American companies including Steam. This appears due to legal requirements/customs in the USA.

We're talking about what happens around the world, and I can only pass on info about my country the United Kingdom. Here debit cards are accepted for internet purchases. The idea they might not be wouldn't even cross my mind. Where's the profit in not accepting money?

Not a overwhelming issue because I trust Steam with my credit card details. Also now irrelevant because I've decided not to buy 'new civ' DLC. Might be a bit of a rip off when free modded ones will appear.

 

[D_Toccs]

Steam is the best digital distribution network there is, and I am all for games going digital distribution network only, because it discourages all the pirates who are ruining this industry.

Wow, someone's been drinking Steam's Kool-Aid.

 

[Sadan01]

Steam is the best digital distribution network there is, and I am all for games going digital distribution network only, because it discourages all the pirates who are ruining this industry.

Discussions about piracy are not allowed on this forum so I must be careful what I write here in response. I guess most elegantly: Steam doesn't discourage pirates. In fact, SteamWorks is hardly any kind of barrier to stop pirating from occurring. A simple visit to the sorts of websites we cannot discuss out there will show you that your statement is completely false. I guess Steam, from a publishers point of view, is better than nothing at all.

As for Steam being the "best digital distributed network there is", consider that due to Steam being one of the first and the fact you have a very successful independant developer behind it (who at the time was coming off extreme highs with Half Life and then they had the forthcoming Half Life 2 arriving around a year later), then I think we'd find it impossible that Valve wouldn't have some kind of success on their hands. I suspect most gamers respect Valve in some way, shape or form.

 

[Jharii]

I guess most elegantly: Steam doesn't discourage pirates. In fact, SteamWorks is hardly any kind of barrier to stop pirating from occurring. A simple visit to the sorts of websites we cannot discuss out there will show you that your statement is completely false. I guess Steam, from a publishers point of view, is better than nothing at all.

So if Steam is better than nothing, than your initial assessment is incorrect. Or do you have some private well of information that educates you better than the publishers? If so, please share. We won't tell. It doesn't have to be a website. Just share the information.

FYI, I have seen stories (provided a link on this very site of such a pirate) of pirates even converting from being pirates into being Steam users.

 

[bryanw1995]

Strongly negative! So much so that I didn't buy the game when I would otherwise have. I did however buy the digital version of Elemental War of Magic on Impulse. Impulse and steam do the same things but in different ways. I accept the Impulse method with no reservations. I do not accept steams method.

how is steam different than impulse? I've used them both many times and have no problem with either system.

 

[Jharii]

how is steam different than impulse? I've used them both many times and have no problem with either system.

Impulse currently does not employ a DRM system. Essentially, all other difference are cosmetics and bells and whistles.

 

[Maniacal]

That first statement is clearly not true, so I guess you were referring to internet purchases? As I said there in my first post, it appears debit cards on not accepted for internet purchases by most (all?) American companies including Steam. This appears due to legal requirements/customs in the USA.

We're talking about what happens around the world, and I can only pass on info about my country the United Kingdom. Here debit cards are accepted for internet purchases. The idea they might not be wouldn't even cross my mind. Where's the profit in not accepting money?

Not a overwhelming issue because I trust Steam with my credit card details. Also now irrelevant because I've decided not to buy 'new civ' DLC. Might be a bit of a rip off when free modded ones will appear.

Oops, I mistyped it out. I meant on the internet in North America, if there are debit options not through paypal I've never noticed. And yeah my post was supposed to be that is extremely common to use credit cards for e-purchases in North America, and using my debit card for it wasn't something I had even considered. Different countries have different systems/cultures of course (and I love it! Especially different currencies. The 10 dinar note in Jordan is one of my favourites so far, such a lovely shade of blue.).

Discussions about piracy are not allowed on this forum so I must be careful what I write here in response. I guess most elegantly: Steam doesn't discourage pirates. In fact, SteamWorks is hardly any kind of barrier to stop pirating from occurring. A simple visit to the sorts of websites we cannot discuss out there will show you that your statement is completely false. I guess Steam, from a publishers point of view, is better than nothing at all.

We are allowed to discuss piracy a bit, such as that it exists, just nothing that promotes it or any admittance to having participated in it directly. Steam isn't pirate-proof, indeed the torrents are out on day 1 usually, but multiplayer often doesn't work (which for some games rather defeats their purpose, especially VALVe's own games). Its far better than some other DRM systems and has many other useful features than just DRM.

 

[TPQ]

Civ5 is the only game I've ever bought that required Steam. I've deliberately avoided games before that required Steam.

To be honest, it's not as bad as I thought it would be and I can see why people like it. In my opinion the key, that appears to be missing, is choice.

If you could choose between requiring steam and not requiring steam when you make your purchase I'd choose the non-steam version, even if I had to pay 25%-33% more.

It's a win-win. The game devs get more money, the customer gets the choice and people who can't or dont want to pay extra for a non-steam version, get to try out steam instead and might end up liking it, so steam get's some converts.

Choice. So important. So neglected in this issue.

 

[Senethro]

Civ5 is the only game I've ever bought that required Steam. I've deliberately avoided games before that required Steam.

To be honest, it's not as bad as I thought it would be and I can see why people like it. In my opinion the key, that appears to be missing, is choice.

If you could choose between requiring steam and not requiring steam when you make your purchase I'd choose the non-steam version, even if I had to pay 25%-33% more.

It's a win-win. The game devs get more money, the customer gets the choice and people who can't or dont want to pay extra for a non-steam version, get to try out steam instead and might end up liking it, so steam get's some converts.

Choice. So important. So neglected in this issue.

Can you imagine the storm on civfan if the Steam version was significantly cheaper as a matter of policy by the publisher? Theres also the little thing of Walmart probably not stocking the game if the online distributors can undercut them.

 

[The_Coyote]

Impulse currently does not employ a DRM system. Essentially, all other difference are cosmetics and bells and whistles.

You are aware impulse reactor with goo? (http://www.impulsedriven.com/downloads/Impulse_Reactor_White_Paper.pdf - p.6)

 

[Sadan01]

So if Steam is better than nothing, than your initial assessment is incorrect. Or do you have some private well of information that educates you better than the publishers? If so, please share. We won't tell. It doesn't have to be a website. Just share the information.

FYI, I have seen stories (provided a link on this very site of such a pirate) of pirates even converting from being pirates into being Steam users.

People get so passionate about things, don't they?

Publishers must know that copy protection only gives them at best a week or so of sales against pirates. They say that the first week usually sells the most copies so it so that works for the publishers and this is most likely the reason why some, no most, persist with copy protection. However, there are a lot of Steam games that make it onto torrent sites in the first one to two days of the game going live on Steam. So my point - Steam I guess is better than nothing. But it isn't perfect and nothing else is either.

Wow, so you're saying that Steam is the best thing since sliced bread because you've read on the Interwebs that people have reformed their pirating ways and joined Steam. Wow. I'm sure that there are also a lot of people jacked off with publishers and have stopped purchasing games and instead wait for the torrent to be released. Seriously man, whatever on that point. All people need is a bad experience with Steam - i.e. account closed due to PayPal withholding a payment, and they'll leave Steam.

Oh and btw, I got the above from my private well.

 

[Anthropoid]

Theres also the little thing of Walmart probably not stocking the game if the online distributors can undercut them.

I have my doubts about that. Walmart sells many things that are simply a matter of brand availability and not everything they sell has to have huge margin, nor even to have best market competitiveness. Some kid buys his Civ5 from Walmart (even if it could've been bought cheaper on online) by virtue of being in the store, the kid is more likely to buy some popcorn and a soda, which is where the real profit lies.