How do you like your steaks

[GhostWriter16]

If you grind it yourself, it's not that dangerous. Still a risk, but worth taking. If you buy ground beef, you'd be wise to cook it to well done: not only is the risk greater, but the meat itself is going to be of low enough quality cooking it to 160 isn't going to impact the taste much.

Is 160 even well-done? I thought 160 was equivalent to Medium?

Also, what about restaurants? I was actually surprised that I couldn't get a burger cooked "Medium" in a Friendly's once. I do know it makes a difference to the taste though, I"ve had good well-done burgers but they usually aren't great, a medium burger is much more juicy and good.

 

[emzie]

160 is the magic temp you want to kill off bacteria.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I thought this article was humorous

(Article contained in smile.)

So you're only supposed to eat burgers well-done? Why is it that almost every place I've been to will cook it down to medium or at least medium-well then? I imagine that if it were highly dangerous, they wouldn't do it.

 

[woody60707]

160 is the magic temp you want to kill off bacteria.

Well 130 is the magic temp I like my steak at!

 

[Flying Pig]

How well done it is depends not only on the temperature, but also how long it is at that temperature for - flashing it up to 160 degrees for an instant will kill the bacteria, but not cook it all that much.

 

[GhostWriter16]

How well done it is depends not only on the temperature, but also how long it is at that temperature for - flashing it up to 160 degrees for an instant will kill the bacteria, but not cook it all that much.

Is there any cooking technique that will allow you to do that? (Hit 160 very quickly.)

Why is 160 magical exactly? Will 160 actually work perfectly while 159 will leave everything there? Or will a lower temperature possibly kill most but not all of it?

 

[Flying Pig]

It's to do with denaturing enzymes - I'm not a biologist, but basically you need to heat it up hot enough to deform the enzyme (which can be thought of as a lock-and-key mechanism). I think 160 degrees is the point at which we consider this to occour for all bacteria.

 

[Leonel]

Do you know what I'm going to do, guys? I'm going to make lomo saltado this Memorial Day weekend while all my friends are out of town.

 

[shadowplay]

The Japanese restaurant across the street from me serves raw beef. Not brave enough to try it myself.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Is there any cooking technique that will allow you to do that? (Hit 160 very quickly.)

Why is 160 magical exactly? Will 160 actually work perfectly while 159 will leave everything there? Or will a lower temperature possibly kill most but not all of it?

160 isn't a magical temperature. It's the temperature where many bacteria that cause food borne illnesses become unable to reproduce and start to die. It destroys their cell membranes. That temperature doesn't kill all bacteria, and it doesn't render any food 100% safe. What it is very effective at doing is eliminating most of the common types of the common kinds of bacteria such as Shigella, e. coli, salmonella, and clostridium perfrigens. But it does not kill all kinds. There is a strain of e. coli, for example, that is both thermally tolerant and lethal to humans. But it is very rare. Perhaps most importantly, bacterial infection isn't the only risk at hand from consuming food that has bacteria on it whilst it was cold. Most bacteria produce toxins as they multiply and die, and heat does not deactivate them. This is how botulism kills people, but many common illnesses are caused by toxins as well (like Shigella and bacillus cereus aka "fried rice syndrome"). Bacteria produce these toxins readily between 40 and 140 degrees F; between 140 and 160 they stop reproducing (much like the <40 area, save for the important exception of Listeria) and above 160 they start to die.

However, there are certain illnesses that are not preventable by cooking at all. I've already mentioned toxins produced by bacteria, but there are others: protozoan sources like cryptosporidium parvum (which comes from human feces infecting the water supply of the food you're eating), is unremovable, and fish can carry Ciguatera toxin and scombroid, which causes histamine poisoning.

 

[Akka]

Society had a vote on what proper is. It is not well done.

Society has plebiscited bad sitcoms, bad movies and casual games, so society has clearly shown it has no f-ing idea about what is good and what is not.

 

[mrt144]

Society has plebiscited bad sitcoms, bad movies and casual games, so society has clearly shown it has no f-ing idea about what is good and what is not.

Why does this wind you up so much? Your personal preference is just not accepted as being the preferred method by commoner and chef alike.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The Japanese restaurant across the street from me serves raw beef. Not brave enough to try it myself.

Ah. You mean steak tartare.

Steak tartare is a meat dish made from finely chopped or minced raw beef or horse.[1][2] Tartare can also be made by thinly slicing a high grade of meat such as strip steak, marinating it in wine or other spirits, spicing it to taste, and then chilling it.[citation needed] This is often served with onions, capers and seasonings (the latter typically incorporating fresh ground pepper and Worcestershire sauce), sometimes with a raw egg yolk, and often on rye bread.

Steak tartare is especially popular in Italy, Belgium, Croatia, Serbia, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Romania, Hungary, the Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Nepal, Japan, and Switzerland.

 

[shadowplay]

It was beef sashimi, actually:

 

[Disgustipated]

This can be accomplished fantastically in an oven:

oh such a thing of beauty. You are making me hungry for steak now. Stop that! I know red meat is bad for me, but look at that!

 

[_random_]

Zelig is recommending it. How unhealthy can it be?

 

[Akka]

Why does this wind you up so much? Your personal preference is just not accepted as being the preferred method by commoner and chef alike.

I was being rather tongue-in-cheek here, actually ^^
(yeah, it's pretty hard to tell on the Internet)

 

[Antilogic]

How dangerous is a medium or medium rare burger?

He is, I just wanted to throw my two-cents in. Personally, I'd rather have a medium-steak than a rare steak, but would prefer medium-rare over either of those (I prefer the entire steak to be hot throughout, and rare is a bit too "Underdone" for my personal tastes.) As for medium-rare steak in a quesadilla, I've never had that but it sounds yum

All good.

Regarding the dangers of burgers vs. normal steaks, the bacteria are usually introduced via handling of the meat and the environment--so they are only on the surface. So if you use salt and sear the surfaces of the meat (high temps, described well by Cheezy), you will kill all the bacteria. Issues arise with burgers because the meat is ground up and mixed (so the bacteria can end up on the inside), and the grinders themselves can contaminated with bacteria if they aren't cleaned properly before use. So if you don't trust the source to do it cleanly, don't get rare/mid-rare burgers.

160 isn't a magical temperature. It's the temperature where many bacteria that cause food borne illnesses become unable to reproduce and start to die. It destroys their cell membranes. That temperature doesn't kill all bacteria, and it doesn't render any food 100% safe. What it is very effective at doing is eliminating most of the common types of the common kinds of bacteria such as Shigella, e. coli, salmonella, and clostridium perfrigens. But it does not kill all kinds. There is a strain of e. coli, for example, that is both thermally tolerant and lethal to humans. But it is very rare. Perhaps most importantly, bacterial infection isn't the only risk at hand from consuming food that has bacteria on it whilst it was cold. Most bacteria produce toxins as they multiply and die, and heat does not deactivate them. This is how botulism kills people, but many common illnesses are caused by toxins as well (like Shigella and bacillus cereus aka "fried rice syndrome"). Bacteria produce these toxins readily between 40 and 140 degrees F; between 140 and 160 they stop reproducing (much like the <40 area, save for the important exception of Listeria) and above 160 they start to die.

However, there are certain illnesses that are not preventable by cooking at all. I've already mentioned toxins produced by bacteria, but there are others: protozoan sources like cryptosporidium parvum (which comes from human feces infecting the water supply of the food you're eating), is unremovable, and fish can carry Ciguatera toxin and scombroid, which causes histamine poisoning.

Solid stuff. Quoting it to make sure it appears twice and every home cook should read it.

Only addition I'd make is that seasonings (especially salt) can also kill bacteria through dehydration. Besides the improved taste, this is the big reason why it's recommended to season your dishes early instead of at the table.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Regarding the dangers of burgers vs. normal steaks, the bacteria are usually introduced via handling of the meat and the environment--so they are only on the surface. So if you use salt and sear the surfaces of the meat (high temps, described well by Cheezy), you will kill all the bacteria. Issues arise with burgers because the meat is ground up and mixed (so the bacteria can end up on the inside), and the grinders themselves can contaminated with bacteria if they aren't cleaned properly before use. So if you don't trust the source to do it cleanly, don't get rare/mid-rare burgers.

I didn't know that about the handling, but it makes sense. Salmonella clostridium botulinum, and bacillus cereus, for example, come from dirt. Staph. Aureus comes from human hair and skin. Perhaps most worrisome is a Typhoid Mary case, where the handler infects the food with a disease which they serve as a vector for, but are themselves immune.

In addition, the quality of meat for the average steak is very high (from the centers of large muscles) and for ground beef considerably less so; in particular, the meat closer to the bones, which makes ground beef the much more likely candidate of the two to contain mad cow disease, if the animal in question was infected.

Solid stuff. Quoting it to make sure it appears twice and every home cook should read it.

Only addition I'd make is that seasonings (especially salt) can also kill bacteria through dehydration. Besides the improved taste, this is the big reason why it's recommended to season your dishes early instead of at the table.

True story.

 

[woody60707]

This is how I like my steak.