How excited are you?

[civ_king]

I don't care about Steam, in fact I have Steam so it might even be better

 

[Cheetah]

Before I knew they had started developing Civ5, I was at ★★★★★★. It was a sure purchase for me.

When I heard they had started developing it and was going to release it this fall, I was at ★★★★★★★. I was excited about a game I could excitedly awaiting and pondering about and looking forward to and being fanboyish.

Then I heard about steam, Internet requirements, DLC and Babylon away. ...

Now I may still buy Civ5. A month after the first expansion pack, if it turns out it works well, it is modable, the Internet requirements are not too draconian, I can still get Babylon (Firaxis created or user created) and I will know how DLC works into everything and if already released DLCs will be included in the expansion pack anyway.

After knowing those things, I may buy Civ5 and the expansion.

 

[12agnar0k]

★ ★ ★ ★ ★

Civ5 is one of my most anticipated games of late, a long with some that have already been released, and a few more to come, such as GT5 long time coming, Diablo III I might get too, but yeah I've been very excited about Civ5 since I came here after hearing it was coming out and this forumn gives lots of good information on it

 

[Horizons]

I am desperately excited for Civ 5, such that I can barely restrain myself.

 

[Guardian_PL]

I'm with White Elk on this one - Steam is a killjoy.

I'll do exactly the same what I did with Civ4 - while everyone was getting excited about it I was thoroughly enjoying Civ3Conquests, and picked up Civ4 few months after the Warlords expansion (which was I think sth like a year after vanilla release).
Hopefully a year from now there will be some nice expansion for Civ5, including all that crappy DLC that Steam is charging an arm and a leg, polished gameplay (sorry, but so far the Advisors' graphics are abysmally ugly and it all reeks with CivRev) and who knows? Maybe even Steam-free version?

There's no rush, I stopped being excited about new releases roughly around the Two Towers movie (that poor excuse of J.R.R. adaptation broke my heart).

...I used to think that Sid Meier is the only name in the gaming industry I still trust. But to be honest I can't see Sid in Civ5, but there's plenty of weirdos with "funny" ideas and waaay to much Steam. Good ol' Sid is probably sitting on a tropical beach and all he thinks about is to whether he should buy that island now, or perhaps find a better one xPPP




EDIT: Ok, change of plans, I've spent last couple of days reading/watching previews and I'm now hopelessly lost - hyped to extreme, omg what a game, that stuff. If I'd have to send a sample of my blood and all personal details to Firaxis in order to play Civ5, I would.

 

[Zhahz]

I was completely done with Civ III long before Civ IV came along. I don't get the fascination with III - must just be me. I'm still playing IV even today.

I'm still steamed about being forced to install Steam - I think this was a tragic decision by Firaxis/2K. Devs and publishers need to realize that players do not like having 3rd party garbage forced on them and taking advantage of those too clueless to know any better is pretty lame too.

I am desperately excited for Civ 5, such that I can barely restrain myself.

For the game itself, I agree. I'm about to spontaneously combust.

I'm willing to install the Steaming pile of crap to activate Civ 5 and update Civ 5 but I'll be crippling it as much as possible immediately.

 

[ValugaTheLord]

Why do you guys don't want to use Steam so much?

I understand to some it might be problem with unstable Internet and such but here is waaaay to many people who don't want to use it!

My advice is Install steam, create Account, Install Alien Swarm (Free game from Valve) try out Steam and you will have full mature point of view on Steam.

 

[Psyringe]

Wait - what?! I'd have to use Steam to install Civ5, and I'd have to reactivate it every time I change my hardware?

No way. I installed Steam on a whim some weeks ago when they were offering Portal for free. It immediately stuck itself into Windows autostart and then started up every time I turned my machine on. It didn't even bother to inform me about that. After uninstalling it, it still left residues in the system which I had to clean out manually.

Also, as a collector who likes to play games over many years (sometimes decades), I'm not going to put myself at the mercy of some company beyond my control for allowing me to actually play a game that I already bought. When I like to play a game of MoO1 (a great game which was released 17 years ago), I can do so just fine. If I buy Civ5 and want to play it 17 years from now, I have to depend on the gratitude of some company to still be around and letting me?

I passed on Spore (in which I was very interested) exactly because of this intrusive DRM scheme. If Civ5 doesn't come up with a different solution that lets the customers keep control about their purchase, then Civ5 will probably be the first game in the franchise that I won't buy. And I'm a die-hard Civ fan from day one, I actually bought my first PC in order to play Civ1.

Is there any organized resistance against this nonsense?

 

[ValugaTheLord]

Wait - what?! I'd have to use Steam to install Civ5, and I'd have to reactivate it every time I change my hardware?

No way. I installed Steam on a whim some weeks ago when they were offering Portal for free. It immediately stuck itself into Windows autostart and then started up every time I turned my machine on. It didn't even bother to inform me about that. After uninstalling it, it still left residues in the system which I had to clean out manually.

Also, as a collector who likes to play games over many years (sometimes decades), I'm not going to put myself at the mercy of some company beyond my control for allowing me to actually play a game that I already bought. When I like to play a game of MoO1 (a great game which was released 17 years ago), I can do so just fine. If I buy Civ5 and want to play it 17 years from now, I have to depend on the gratitude of some company to still be around and letting me?

I passed on Spore (in which I was very interested) exactly because of this intrusive DRM scheme. If Civ5 doesn't come up with a different solution that lets the customers keep control about their purchase, then Civ5 will probably be the first game in the franchise that I won't buy. And I'm a die-hard Civ fan from day one, I actually bought my first PC in order to play Civ1.

Is there any organized resistance against this nonsense?

SEE!! people like you make whole "I HATE STEAM AND I REFUSE TO USE IT" looks like bunch of ignorant bastards.

First of all Steam has option to start up automatically or manually you just need to open SETUP menu.

Than you do not need to "Reactivate" your game every time you change hardware as CiV V uses STEAM as DRM and STEAM allows you to DL your games from any PC at any given time, therefore you can install your game over the internet on 10 different PCs at the SAME TIME!!! you will just have to use your account to play it. (or some different account that has Civ V bought)

Now fear of Steam going bankrupt is just silly even as silly as thinking someone will steam your personal data if you buy games of steam with credit card.

Spore? Yea it had this DRM problem but it was easy to fix problem with NOCD and you would not play that game for longer than anyone around here.. game really didn't live up to the hype.

 

[Psyringe]

First of all Steam has option to start up automatically or manually you just need to open SETUP menu.

Thanks. I admit that I didn't check that thoroughly, I was just pretty much disgusted when I restarted Windows and suddenly saw a Steam screen (with no respective warning or option in the installer), and then my Firewall warned me about Steam wanting to connect to the Internet. Simply sticking the application into autostart without clearly informing or asking me does not raise my confidence in the company, and it does not make me feel treated like a mature customer. But it's good if they indeed do have the option to select manual starts only, so thanks for the info.

Than you do not need to "Reactivate" your game every time you change hardware as CiV V uses STEAM as DRM and STEAM allows you to DL your games from any PC at any given time,

Well, I got that info form the official FAQ, see this post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9419783&postcount=1

To quote:

Once you switch to offline mode you can stay in that mode forever. The one exception is that if you significantly change your computer’s hardware, you will need to switch to online mode and launch the game one time to reactivate the game.

So you're saying that the official FAQ is wrong and I'm not at the mercy of Steam to allow me to play my game, after I did hardware changes?

Now fear of Steam going bankrupt is just silly even as silly as thinking someone will steam your personal data if you buy games of steam with credit card.

Well. I suppose fear of Atari (once a near-monopolist in video games) going bankrupt in the 80s was silly too. As was fear of Microprose (once undisputed leader of strategy games) going bankrupt in the 90s. Or, for that matter, fear of Lehman Brothers to go bankrupt in this decade. Funnily enough, all these things happened.

I don't know how long you've been around, but if you look at the whole history of video gaming from about the 70s (and yeah, I'm actually that old ), then you'll see that this is a highly volatile market. Companies that stay alive for even just a decade are actually an exception. Now I'm not saying that Steam is destined to cease operations in the near future. But I am saying that in a market as volatile as this, it's rather naive to expect a company to be around for a long time. And therefore, I'm certainly not willing to put the control over a product I purchased into the hands of a third party beyond my control.

I read up a bit and as far as I can see, if something happens to Steam, I'm entirely at their mercy for being able to continue to play the games. They are saying that they "probably" turn DRM requirements off if they'd ever get into such a situation, but that's just a non-binding statement, it's not part of their license as far as I can see. It doesn't at all prevent them from issuing a note such as "Well, we would have liked to turn off DRM, but due to contractual obligations with our old partners / new owners / etc., we regret to inform you that we are not in a position to do so." Wouldn't be the first time either that non-binding declarations of intent aren't worth the space they occupy. And then you're standing there empty-handed, because you actually agreed to a license that gave you no rights whatsoever in such a case. I still wonder why so many people seem so ready to do that. On the other hand, I might have done it as well 20 years ago, so perhaps the company is just capitalizing on the trust and inexperience of the majority of its customers, who apparently can't imagine how something that looks strong today may just crumble away tomorrow.

Spore? Yea it had this DRM problem but it was easy to fix problem with NOCD and you would not play that game for longer than anyone around here.. game really didn't live up to the hype.

Yeah, I did read about it and in the end I was glad I didn't buy it. I'll probably get it once it hits the bargain bins, just to see what it all was about, provided that there's a method to not depend on its DRM (some companies remove DRM late in the life-cycle of their products). I rather mentioned it as an example of how much I'm opposed to a DRM scheme that takes the control over a purchased product away from the customer.

 

[ValugaTheLord]

Being afraid or opposed to a DRM??

Do you play any games at all? There is so little games that don't use DRM this days it isn't even funny anymore. :\ (and not in a good way of funny)

I understand and i didn't like DRM when it was just starting to grow.. and i still dont.. but now i dont have a choise but Steam was always good to me and as DRM method by far the best.

And about that reactivating thingy.. on steam it doesn't say it uses 3rd party DRM so i would only figure they ment something else.

 

[Psyringe]

Do you play any games at all? There is so little games that don't use DRM this days it isn't even funny anymore. :\ (and not in a good way of funny)

Actually I play an embarassingly large amount of games, but I rarely buy them earlier than 2 years after release (the Civ games are a rare exception), so I may not be totally up to date with recent developments. I did notice that there has been a general shift towards more aggressive DRM (and towards limiting customer freedom) during the last years. I did hope that the Civ franchise would be spared from that trend though. the release of a DRM-removing patch for Civ4 seemed to be a step in the right direction. I did not expect to be forced into an DRM scheme that invalidates my purchase if I change my hardware at some time in the future and Steam happens to be gone by that time.

I understand and i didn't like DRM when it was just starting to grow.. and i still dont.. but now i dont have a choise but Steam was always good to me and as DRM method by far the best.

Well, for me the best method were the CD keys. No hassle with any intrusive software on my system, and I had (and kept) control over the purchased game. A one-time CD key input during installation was also less prone to errors than physical tricks with the disc (like intentionally corrupted sectors), and less annoying than manual-based questions on the start of each game (that's the copy protection that Civ1 and MoO1 had).

Of course, in times where a CD key (or a scanned manual) can be published to a million people worldwide within seconds, this method of protection isn't terribly efficient any more. So I perfectly understand that the publishers are looking for something better. What I don't understand or condone is that they combine this with a reduction of customer's rights.

With today's technology, it's perfectly possible to implement forms of copy protection that are, compared to repeated online activation, at least as safe for the publishers (in terms of prevention of piracy), but much safer for customers (in terms of having control over their purchased goods, and not having to fear that someday they won't be able to activate it any more). One example are personalized watermarks, which you may know from movie previews. If games are bought online at the publisher and then downloaded, then the publisher can watermark the files that get sent to the customer. If those personalized, watermarked files later turn up in a torrent, then the customer can be identified (through the personal information given on the purchase) and actually held accountable. For the customer, this means that he doesn't have to worry about any software secretly installed on his machine, or about not being able to activate the game once the publisher has gone.

Unfortunately, publishers currently don't even want to think into that direction - because the very much understandable piracy prevention is only one of their goals. The other economic interest, which tends to slip under the radar because it's camouflaged behind all the "piracy prevention" ballyhoo, is to gain as much control of their product (even after purchase) as possible, being successful in this would be an economic advantage. And currently they seem to be testing out how far they can go - which is pretty far, since many customers don't seem to mind giving up their rights, and others accept "piracy prevention" as a plausible reason to give up customer rights.

Point in case: If the publishers actually cared about customer's rights, then they could add a "customer right of DRM removal upon unavailability of online activation" into their warranties. But they don't do that - as I said, they're trying out how much control they can get, how far they can go, and how long the customers will follow.

Anyway, you probably didn't want to go that deep into the matter, so I apologize. In any case, it's my decision whether or not I put up with intrusive, control-taking DRM. I don't _have_ to buy Civ5 if it's only offered with unacceptable DRM measures that endanger long-term use of the product. As with Spore, I can simply pass on it, and play Civ4, MoO, Alpha Centauri, FreeCiv, or any future civ clone without such DRM, instead. Just as well, it's your right to accept the loss of customer rights if you don't regard it as much of an issue. So we probably have to agree to disagree in the end, but I hope I at least explained my position in a somewhat comprehensible manner.

 

[ValugaTheLord]

Devs need someone or something to point their finger at and tell that "this is fault of our poor sails not actual quality of our game"

As no DRM prevents pirates from getting the game.. sure some CD protections were successful for half a year but they were hacked no matter what and as much as i love steam.. it has been hacked YEARS ago!! i really see no reason in aggressive DRM solution. :\

 

[Sneaky Snake]

★ ★ ★ ★. Would deserve 5 if it didn't require steam

 

[12agnar0k]

most programmes automatically set themselves to run on start up, this is not uncommon. Some programmes ask on Install but most don't bother, what you want to avoid is programmes that don't come with an option to remove this auto start, which Steam comes with, and also programmes that can't be turned off without going into Windows task manager and finding the running ".exe" file, which again isn't Steam.

However if you have to have some of these badly designed programmes there are tools to remove ".exe" files from start up, so you can save RAM or CPU power from being spent on programmes you don't need running.

Worrying about Steam stopping its validating servers so you can't validate and play your Steam games is pointless, 1. Their are measures in place to remove the need to validate if need be, 2. Steam removes as many of the "I can't play my game" as it causes so its unfair to judge it on this issue as it in general it doesn't depreciate your ability to play games, your just replacing some negatives for some others.

 

[Mango Elephant]

I'm sure you won't be required to have Steam to get CivV. So many people on here hate it (and very few love it), so I'm betting the devs will change it before CivV actually comes out (In about 2 months).

 

[stealth_nsk]

I'm sure you won't be required to have Steam to get CivV. So many people on here hate it (and very few love it), so I'm betting the devs will change it before CivV actually comes out (In about 2 months).

I'd say chances are almost zero. A lot of agreements are already there.

 

[VainApocalypse]

It was ★ ★ ★ ★
But because I learned that it would be on Steam, it's ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

 

[Mango Elephant]

I'd say chances are almost zero. A lot of agreements are already there.

I know I'm really dumb, but if they already have a boxart wouldn't that mean that you don't have to have Steam to get CivV?

 

[stealth_nsk]

I know I'm really dumb, but if they already have a boxart wouldn't that mean that you don't have to have Steam to get CivV?

No. Box version installs Steam with the game.