[RD] How I would reform the US welfare system

[Joij21]

I don't know how to design the taxation system around this, but a reasonably large tax break for adding a rental unit to your primary residence, but then some type of scalar that prevents the rent from actually paying the whole mortgage.

Why would I want a bunch of strangers living in a house that I own? Thank you but no thank you.

 

[El_Machinae]

Why would I want a bunch of strangers living in a house that I own? Thank you but no thank you.

For the income?
And if your NIMBY is too much of a burden, if this is properly implemented it would bring down infrastructure taxes.

 

[Joij21]

For the income?
And if your NIMBY is too much of a burden, if this is properly implemented it would bring down infrastructure taxes.

These renters would mostly be street people and drug addicts. What if one young daughters in the home? Do we really want a rapist drug addled bum in the house?

 

[El_Machinae]

These renters would mostly be street people and drug addicts. What if one young daughters in the home? Do we really want a rapist drug addled bum in the house?

These are truly deep questions that apartment and condo managers struggle with the world over.

 

[Joij21]

but then some type of scalar that prevents the rent from actually paying the whole mortgage.

Also how is this encouraging? Street people in my home and I can't charge them for a price that I want? Even though it's my own home!

At least a higher rent could keep the undesirable one's out of the neighborhood. But no, this forces everyone to let them move in. It's that or now everyone else that's hard working and owns a home now has to pay higher taxes for simply refusing the dregs of society

 

[Farm Boy]

Encouraging renting is still the wrong incentive. Though I understand the impulse. What to do with people who won't even improve/maintain their own stuff if you give it to them, or simply cannot, for whatever reason?

Starts getting tricky now that building codes are complicated and labor costs are high. I get the feeling that in Technoutopia, nobody is really qualified to own anything.

 

[El_Machinae]

Renting creates its own benefits, because it creates mobility and allows someone to offset the short term risk of ownership that discourages flexibility. As it stands, I have no idea on how the law works if I renovate my house to become a duplex that I then sell.

Also how is this encouraging? Street people in my home and I can't charge them for a price that I want? Even though it's my own home!

At least a higher rent could keep the undesirable one's out of the neighborhood. But no, this forces everyone to let them move in. It's that or now everyone else that's hard working and owns a home now has to pay higher taxes for simply refusing the dregs of society

You can charge whatever rent you want, the scalar is to the tax-break so that it doesn't allow runaway rent-seeking. The goal is that you are able to rent and use the income to help you eventually own the property outright to do with as you will.
If we create a system where the renter pays more than the mortgage, it just shuttles wealth upwards, which is something you don't want. My system allows wealth to accumulate at the average household level with a win/win to increasing housing. (You want to encourage the development of additional housing units that rewards the individual family. Obviously, no system is perfect, and wealth must always compound to encourage diversified savings. But there's no need for wealth to easily compound at rates that damage the economy.)

Right now, any home is capable of renovating to make it easier to rent out some of the property. We want to increase this ability without causing other harms.

There is nothing in my proposal that would force you to do this.

 

[Farm Boy]

Of course, and it encourages soil mining too. It's a bad damn deal for society. But it's probably a good deal for people who like to flit around and have mobile social prospects.

The flexibility is a big enough incentive that it probably does not need incentivized any farther. Not being able to find rental properties is a problem. But it's a much worse problem when nobody owns where they live because pension plans and mega renters have killed the "American dream."

 

[El_Machinae]

Incentivising ownership definitely changes the incentives around how you value-add and allowing mobility really does have its own set of benefits (though I'd mostly think of it like offsetting short-term risk). We're moving into a world where we need people to stack more and sprawl less

 

[Joij21]

Incentivising ownership definitely changes the incentives around how you value-add and allowing mobility really does have its own set of benefits (though I'd mostly think of it like offsetting short-term risk). We're moving into a world where we need people to stack more and sprawl less

If the problem is that there simply isn't enough apartments, just build more apartments. Why convert normal single family homes into duplexes?

 

[Farm Boy]

To have somebody on the hook for caring and maintenance in a fashion that stewards the real resources posterity will need, not deprecating those resources for imaginary blips of social power in servitude to the wants of now.

 

[El_Machinae]

If the problem is that there simply isn't enough apartments, just build more apartments. Why convert normal single family homes into duplexes?

That's a separate method of increasing housing, but would also be a separate track. Also "You want to encourage the development of additional housing units that rewards the individual family."

How would you change things to encourage apartment construction, but without triggering NIMYism in homeowners?

 

[Birdjaguar]

If the problem is that there simply isn't enough apartments, just build more apartments. Why convert normal single family homes into duplexes?

Who has the capital to build those needed apartments?

Being a landlord can be a royal pain in the butt. Been there, done that. Many small time landlords quickly resort to hiring a management company to take over and get the late night calls and headaches. They give up the 10-15% rent to not be bothered. To provide low income housing for poorer people involves lots of legal complexities tied to state and federal funds. many of those programs have corrupt landlords.

 

[Joij21]

How would you change things to encourage apartment construction, but without triggering NIMYism in homeowners?

Tax imports, then fund a bunch of construction companies to build apartments around cities. The construction would also provide a stimulus for construction workers.

Being a landlord can be a royal pain in the butt. Been there, done that. Many small time landlords quickly resort to hiring a management company to take over and get the late night calls and headaches. They give up the 10-15% rent to not be bothered. To provide low income housing for poorer people involves lots of legal complexities tied to state and federal funds. many of those programs have corrupt landlords.

Forcing single family homes to rent out their homes to strangers isn't a solution either.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Tax imports, then fund a bunch of construction companies to build apartments around cities. The construction would also provide a stimulus for construction workers.

Taxing imports just raises domestic prices and does not affect the exporter directly. At the import level, any tax is a federal tax not likely to trickle down to states or cities where the housing is needed. A city would be better off just raising its local sales tax and keeping the money local.

Forcing single family homes to rent out their homes to strangers isn't a solution either.

I agree.

 

[El_Machinae]

Tax imports, then fund a bunch of construction companies to build apartments around cities. The construction would also provide a stimulus for construction workers.

A regressive tax, a federal program, and a government manager for the apartments?
Also, doesn't deal with NIMBY.

Though you're right, forcing single family homes to rent out their homes isn't a solution either. That's a weird interpretation of what I said.

 

[Zkribbler]

These renters would mostly be street people and drug addicts. What if one young daughters in the home? Do we really want a rapist drug addled bum in the house?

During all the time I was a renter, I was never a street person, a drug addict nor a rapist.