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How would Russia react to EU economic blockade?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Winner, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. Reno

    Reno The Studio Ghibli Fanatic

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    Maybe not slavery exactly, but serfdom was abolished in Russia only in 1861 (as opposed to earlier in the rest of Europe) and even then at rather unfavourable terms to the peasantry. (Serfdom in Russia)
     
  2. Richard Cribb

    Richard Cribb He does monologues

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    Not so.
    Any country where the people dared to stand up against the glorious capital became the enemy of the USA (With a couple of exceptions like Saddam pre the invasion of Kuwait and Pol Pot post the vietnamese intervention in Kampuchea). Heck, your country is still punishing a small, poor and powerless island because its people had the audacity to get rid of Batista's cleptocracy. I could mention a lot of other instances.
    Regarding human rights, it is not clear what you mean here. Do you include social and economic rights here? Those are pretty important for the majority of the population on Earth and your country is hardly a paragon here, not even domestically.

    So what you basically are saying is that it is better to pay lip service to cherished values and then act contrary than just act in such a way? Long live hypocrisy.
    Perhaps Russia and China don't do this sanctimonious routine because they are more mature societies?

    I can.
    This little thing called the Russian Revolution was not only a progressive event in itself, but it had a great impact for the poor masses in the rest of the world and that in a positive way.
    I really can't say the same about the USA with the exception of your labour movement, which admittedly when it was a major influence, was impressive.
    However, I don't expect this to be taught in American schools.
     
  3. EnlightenmentHK

    EnlightenmentHK Emperor

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    Yes, we had segregation and disenfranchisement of minorities at the same time Russia was slaughtering 20-30 million of her own citizens. Moral equivalents indeed! Western Europe barely had any ethnic minorities during the same time period. But if you're gonna bring up slavery, I think the pogroms and NAZI's are more than fair game, no? Or some of the more grotesque colonial abuses and/or negligence during the 19th century?
     
  4. EnlightenmentHK

    EnlightenmentHK Emperor

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    Pol Pot was never propped up by the US. He was however armed, funded, and supported by China. As for human rights, freedom from unjust persecution. Free speech, belief, expression, and press. The right to democratically choose ones own government. Reasonably impartial justice and due process of law. Equal status under the law for all citizens. The right to organize and peacefully protest. Freedom from torture and abuse. And a whole host of others. I don't believe that an equitable share of the economic pie is part of any widespread concept of human rights.

    No, Russia and China behave the way they do because such 'cherished values' are not even a marginal concern for them. Obviously action is better than lip service, but one is better than none.

    Wha what? The only fathomable way the Russian Revolution and what came from it could be considered progressive and positive event is in comparison to the repressive and abusive Tsars that preceded it. They were still brutal autocratic thugs post-revolution compared to most of the West and comparing them favorably to the Tsars might even be stretching things. The poor masses inside the Soviet Union didn't benefit nor did the poor masses in the states they sponsored. The SU exported autocracy, brutality, and the AK-47. Not much else.
     
  5. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

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    Brought out the important part for you.
    Hey, don't be a whiner, poor masses in the rest of the world were happy to take free AK-47 over free fishing rod each day a week!
     
  6. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    So how it's possible that your beacon of democracy and human rights banned slavery later than amoral Russia got rid of serfdom?
     
  7. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

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    That was merely temporary. I believe you successfully reinstated it in 1932.:mischief:
     
  8. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    the US has done both of these things, internaitonal law moreso than US law, but this is nothing the US isnt guilty of.

    True

    True enough

    Oh and the US hasnt? its actually invanded and taken over nations, as opposed to Russian actions in response to a Georgian attack and in Chechnya in response to an illegal attempt a secession. I wonder how the US would react if alaska decided she was leaving the Union.

    See above. Yes, Chechnya was extremely hevy handed, and I dont support the methods used, but its only on a par with Iraq (Or for that matter Israelis behavior which the uS supports). Georgia started the war in 08.


    China or Russia?

    Please, spare me the BS. the US supports the most evil goverments on Earth, such as the Saudi one, because it suits them, and then plays all moralistic when it comes to DPRK. there is no admirable motivations to US behavior, they are at least as bad as Russia or china, but they are rich and powerful so dont get as basd a rep in the west (although frankly there isnt much in it).
     
  9. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Yeah, he was, and the US wouldnt recognise the government that replaced him for a long time afterwards because they didnt want to annoy the Chinese.
     
  10. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    ... and had the same rights for all people regardless of their race and nationality generation before the US?
     
  11. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    On topic:
    Winner, you could write a book of hypothetical scenarios, something like
    "Winner's wildest dreams or 1000 ways how EU could defeat Russia" :)
     
  12. Abaddon

    Abaddon Deity

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    I don't know. Ask #fiftychat
     
  13. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

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    You mean all of them became serfs? That is not entirely correct...
     
  14. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    No, I mean people in the USSR had the similar rights regardless of their race and nationality. Unlike in the United States who is teaching us morality.

    BTW, you are more authoritarian than me according to your signature, glad to know :)
     
  15. BrendanM

    BrendanM Prince

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    Russia would just shut off the flow of gas and other fuels.

    Use their Navy and Air force to strike at tankers, oil rigs, and other fuel depots.

    Let the war of attrition begin.

    Russia wins, 16-13, with a last second field goal in overtime to prevent a tie, unlike the Bengals-Eagles 13-13 fiasco.
     
  16. Richard Cribb

    Richard Cribb He does monologues

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    He was, after 1979.
    True, but that is not the issue since it is not China that is claiming to be the beacon of humanity and moral.
    From your litany of rights I find it doubtful that for instance Shah Mohammad Reza, general Augusto Pinochet or general Efrain Rios Montt had such tremendous respect for those. And that was people brought to power and protected by your country. I could mention a lot more. It is not a thing of the past either.
    As for your last sentence, here is an article from the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
    Back to square one then. Russia doesn't care, China doesn't care, the USA doesn't care, but only the latter pretends to do so.
    I leave it to the audience to decide whether vile action + hypocrisy beats vile action or not.

    Umm no.
    First of all, even doubting that said revolution did not lead to improvements, even substantial improvement for the majority is not something that betrays any deeper knowledge of the topic to say the least.
    Apart from the inspiration this event gave the international labour movement - that it actually was possible to successfully revolt against the traditional ruling classes, it also made the capitalists in other countries realize that it would be better for them to engage in compromises with the working class to avoid similar things to happen to them. One can reflect over whether it was Hitler or Stalin who saved capitalism.
    In any case, ine can assume that without the russian example, the implementation of welfare states would have been more difficult.
    In that context it is worth noting that the real assault on many of those welfare states started only after the Eastern Bloc disappeared. This is hardly coincindental.
    Your last sentences are just unworthy of any comment, and I regret to say that I find your whole post to be abit too much on the ignorant part. So unfortunately I can only give you a bonus point for emotional content.

    Please improve your troling.
    This is just pathetic.
     
  17. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

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    Well there is clear that perceivation of morality is various. (I am not saying that morality is various).
    You should see morality in christian ethics, in social justice, in liberalism and democratic progress and so on. Anyway I perceive Russia and China as failed states there because they doesnt fit to any morality than own national one.
     
  18. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I am unclear what Russia actually imports from the EU that it could not obtain from other sources.

    And any attempt to blockade Russia by force would likely result in a military confrontation at Russia's ports and Russia could probably concentrate enough air and naval power to win there.

    And the legality of Denmark and Sweden in assuming that the extension of their territorial waters for the purposes of fishing, natural resource extraction and safety etc overrides the rights of peaceful international shipping to enter and exit the Baltic as has been established over centuries is extremely dubious.
     
  19. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    I think it's more a matter of getting good prices on what it exports (but I do believe Russia benefits from grain imports). The more open the markets and the pathways for those markets, the better the profit on what it exports (fossil fuel). Another variable on this thought experiment is what's the assumed value for fossil fuels. The current situation has fossil fuel prices kind of under control, while maybe a year and a half ago the affects of fossil fuel prices might have an affect on national responses to their treaties, especially if the bad boy is a major supplier of it. If oil was $300+ a barrel (assuming the dollar was the international currency :) ), what would be the responses?
     
  20. Gogf

    Gogf Indescribable

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    Russia and China are failed states because they're crappy places to live in, not because of their morality.
     

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