How would you change history?

[RedRalph]

What about the other assassionation attampt on Hitler, but the Swabian joiner... cant remember his name, George something I think... it was earlier on. Can anyone remember the details?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Inspired by the "Time travellers" and "Who would you bring back?" threads. If you could change history in any way, what would it be? And why? This is fairly open-ended, but I want it to actually make sense.

Personally, I think I'd use the press to push the US into WWII in 1940. France doesn't fall, Germany and Italy are defeated quickly, Russia doesn't take over Eastern Europe, and Japan would easily be subdued. I thought about sending French troops to oust the Germans from the Rhineland in 1936, but I think that would just postpone the German question, not solve it.

Then of course there's the making my ancestors Kings of a revitalised British Empire somehow, so I'd be born as the heir to "the Empire on which the sun never sets," but I'm not sure how to manage that one.

First Century BC:

First step: Learn how they made the alloys they did of varoious metals in 1800.

Second step: Teach king Ptolemy the benefits of said alloys, and give them to the Egyptian metalsmiths.

Third step: Force king Ptolemy to realize the myriad benefits of the steam engine Hero built.

Fourth step: World begins industrial revolution around 2-300 AD.

Fifth step: Return to my own time, walk across the street to the Beamer dealership, and buy my flying car.

 

[Flying Pig]

Make the operation at Arnham a bit more successful on the part of the ground troops, thus ending the war in '44.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Done and done. Of course, that's in another timeline, so we don't see the change.

 

[vogtmurr]

What about the other assassionation attampt on Hitler, but the Swabian joiner... cant remember his name, George something I think... it was earlier on. Can anyone remember the details?

well one of the problems about an assassination attempt on Hitler is if it is too early, then he goes down as a martyr, and all the resurgent German militarism continues under its own momentum, fueled by a 'just cause' mentality. That's why I opted for the 1944 option - when the majority of his generals were sick to death of him. Furthermore, things didn't turn out so bad in the end - here we all are. Messing with the overall trends too much could result in some totally unexpected outcomes we don't want. But ending it in 1944 would have avoided a lot of destruction - Germany would have surrendered with some dignity for ridding the world of him, and the map of eastern Europe would have been different.

 

[North King]

Third step: Force king Ptolemy to realize the myriad benefits of the steam engine Hero built.

No no no no no no no no.



It's easier to build an actual piston engine yourself than push the Egyptians to figure it out from Hero's. Hero's steam engine was horribly inefficient, requiring more manpower to get the wood than it replaced with the work it did.

 

[BananaLee]

Third step: Force king Ptolemy to realize the myriad benefits of the steam engine Hero built.

What North King said. The steam "engine" Hero made was a steam jet. All you did is boil water to push steam out of two pipes.
If you play with the numbers, you will realised it is a great waste of fuel and really wouldn't be able to do much. There's a reason why steam turbines do NOT use the method our friend Hero did.

A vehicle using this engine you propose would be quite similar to taking an electric kettle and putting wheels to it. Try it at home and see how far your kettle goes.

 

[shatter_crime]

Help Carthage to win the Punic Wars and sack Rome.

Convince Constantine the Great to keep the Roman Empire united so Rome (probably) won't be sacked.

Force Theodosius I to build the Theodosian Wall in Rome instead Constantinople.

Save John Lennon from death, so at least The Beatles can do a reunion tour.

 

[Plotinus]

It's easier to build an actual piston engine yourself than push the Egyptians to figure it out from Hero's. Hero's steam engine was horribly inefficient, requiring more manpower to get the wood than it replaced with the work it did.

Sorry - trying to overturn the myth that "the Egyptians had a steam engine" will probably be harder than actually demolishing a wall with your head.

Convince Constantine the Great to keep the Roman Empire united so Rome (probably) won't be sacked.

Constantine didn't divide up the empire - it was divided after his death by his sons and the military. I don't see why keeping the empire undivided would have stopped Rome being sacked anyway. The whole reason why Diocletian had divided it the first time was that a single emperor wasn't capable of dealing with all the threats at once.

 

[lovett]

Easy:

take 3 nukes with you, 50 kt range. Detonate one near Sparta, one near Athens and then approach both sides claiming to be a representative of the Gods. Tell them that the Gods are very angry at them because of this war and that if they continue, the Gods will destroy them.

I guess they'd never go to war with each other again

How much more scary is a nuke than an earthquake, or a volcano?

 

[privatehudson]

Save John Lennon from death, so at least The Beatles can do a reunion tour.

That is assuming they could organise one before Harrison passed away.

 

[Dumanios]

Save John Lennon from death, so at least The Beatles can do a reunion tour.

Do this
Save Amelia Earhart from getting shot down/Running out of fuel/Getting Roundhouse kicked.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Roger Zelazny, noted science fiction and fantasy author, wrote a short story, "The Game of Blood and Dust", in which two players using the past make changes at various historical points in order to alter history winning or losing a game. They play a few rounds and then start again, changing sides. It's worth finding, if you're into sci-fi/fantasy. Public libraries might have a copy of the story collection it's in ("The Last Defender of Camelot"), although it seems there are 2 versions of the collection. I think The Games in both collections though.

 

[vogtmurr]

Roger Zelazny, noted science fiction and fantasy author, wrote a short story, "The Game of Blood and Dust", in which two players using the past make changes at various historical points in order to alter history winning or losing a game. They play a few rounds and then start again, changing sides. It's worth finding, if you're into sci-fi/fantasy. Public libraries might have a copy of the story collection it's in ("The Last Defender of Camelot"), although it seems there are 2 versions of the collection. I think The Games in both collections though.

I know the story - I can't remember but it seems the only rules were that the degree of intervention was very subtle. Things like, a bullet misses its mark, or a train is late and someone misses an appointment, that sort of thing.

 

[suiraclaw]

Rescue the Roman Empire. Not sure how, but doing away with the corruption and other plagues at then end of the Roman Empire as we know it + giving it good leadership would be great.

 

[JonathanStrange]

I know the story - I can't remember but it seems the only rules were that the degree of intervention was very subtle. Things like, a bullet misses its mark, or a train is late and someone misses an appointment, that sort of thing.

That's it, very "butterfly effect" though the story is an early 1970s product.

 

[Dachs]

Help Carthage to win the Punic Wars and sack Rome.

Baby-murderer. I think there's been many a speculation on this. The Carthaginians were thalassocratic. They wouldn't be able to exercise control over much of Italy, if any at all, save loosely. It would pretty much fall to them attempting to intervene in favor of keeping Italy split up between the regional leagues that prevailed before the establishment of Roman hegemony. A difficult balancing act, and one that the Maks will doubtless be trying to overturn. Big winners, of course, are the Seleukid Empire.

Convince Constantine the Great to keep the Roman Empire united so Rome (probably) won't be sacked.

What Plotinus said.

Force Theodosius I to build the Theodosian Wall in Rome instead Constantinople.

This will not actually alter the overall defensibility of Rome.

Rescue the Roman Empire. Not sure how, but doing away with the corruption and other plagues at then end of the Roman Empire as we know it + giving it good leadership would be great.

If you want the Western Empire to survive, fiddle with the wind off Cape Bon in 468 so the Vandali fireships don't smash Basiliscus' fleet. Probably the easiest, least objectionable in terms of "how large the change is", and it'll probably give them another hundred years.

 

[Plotinus]

This will not actually alter the overall defensibility of Rome.

And it wouldn't matter anyway. The western empire was governed from Milan. Politically speaking, Rome was an irrelevance - a rather worthy old place full of cultural conservatives completely out of touch with the rest of the empire.

 

[LightSpectra]

If you want to save Rome, you would probably want to go back and kill the Mediterranean pirates before Pompey does.

 

[Gilder]

First Century BC:

First step: Learn how they made the alloys they did of varoious metals in 1800.

Second step: Teach king Ptolemy the benefits of said alloys, and give them to the Egyptian metalsmiths.

Third step: Force king Ptolemy to realize the myriad benefits of the steam engine Hero built.

Fourth step: World begins industrial revolution around 2-300 AD.

Fifth step: Return to my own time, walk across the street to the Beamer dealership, and buy my flying car.

It seems infinitely easier just to go back nine or so years and make sure Al Gore wins the election.