• Civ7 is already available! Happy playing :).

How would YOU design Israel in Civ 7 if allowed?(Made this because others are also)

Jesus was the king of Jews...
...Yes, that's what Christians believe. That's certainly not what Jews believe. Even then, that's a metaphor; He was never a political leader of anything, much to the frustration of some of His followers, including a certain Judas Iscariot.
 
David and Solomon are also prophets in Islam. Muslims would not approve of either of their depictions.
I think you could still get away with it, though. The Prince of Egypt was a huge hit in Egypt...on the black market. Though that does add all the more reason to go with Hezekiah or Salome Alexander.
 
David and Solomon are also prophets in Islam. Muslims would not approve of either of their depictions.
But Davi and Solomon is a shared figure with other cultures... I think these muslim laws of description of prophets just apply to Maomé... I understand if muslim don't want to make images of Davi and Solomon, but I think they can't say bad about if Fireaxis made a civ about they, we are free to represent they.
 
I think these muslim laws of description of prophets just apply to Maomé...
Well, you're very wrong on that. Sharia is quite explicit that the depiction of any prophet is strictly forbidden. This is also the traditional rabbinic interpretation of "no graven images" (though the Karaites and erstwhile Sadducees have/had different opinions). That being said, Jews don't extend their prohibition to non-Jews; some Muslims do. Nevertheless, I actually agree with you that this doesn't have to stop Firaxis from choosing David or Solomon as the leader of a hypothetical Israel civ. It might get banned or censored in a few Muslim nations, but I doubt that would have a serious impact on sales.
 
I actually agree with you that this doesn't have to stop Firaxis from choosing David or Solomon as the leader of a hypothetical Israel civ.
That is the point! Don't metter what the muslim laws say about Davi and Solomon, they are figure of other cultures also, and other cultures don't have theses laws of restriction of decpiture of prophets. The Muslim world also should respect the other cultures and don't even ban the game because of that.
Even Maomé is a possible leader, since he was indeed the first Arabian leader, but in this case I think should be fundamental he hides his face under a burka in fire as the image bellow..
150116011012__80268603_prophet.jpg
 
Even Maomé is a possible leader, since he was indeed the first Arabian leader, but in this case I think should be fundamental he hides his face under a burka in fire as the image bellow..
Yes, that's definitely worth risking a fatwa for: having Mohammed in a video game. :rolleyes:
 
That's not any better. Jews would consider Jesus leading any civ to be blasphemous. Christians would consider it sacrilegious. And for Muslims the depiction of prophets, including Jesus, is haram. And the frothing atheists will froth because frothing atheists. So really you've just upset everyone. :p
I wasn't being serious about it. Just mentioning it, like you said, that a primarily Jewish civ would hate it. It would be offensive to Muslims too but for different reasons. :)
Besides Jesus wouldn't have been physically around on earth until after a proper unified Arabian nation formed. :p
David and Solomon are also prophets in Islam. Muslims would not approve of either of their depictions.
I didn't know Solomon was.
 
My humble concept for ancient Israel civ.

Kingdom of Israel

Leader - Solomon
Leader Unique Ability - King Solomon Wisdom

Cities receive Faith, Culture and Gold per turn equal to their positive Amenity, this bonus doubled during Golden Age. Any city within 6 tiles radius of your capital or has trade route to it receive +1 amenity. Receive +3 Era score each time any Israeli city reaches Ecstatic status for the first time in Ancient or Classical Era. He may contruct the First Temple(Tier 1 building) in Temple Mount.

The First Temple
A building unique to Israel. All cities with a majority of religion founded by Israel receive +2 Amenity and +4 Loyalty toward Solomon's civilization. This building inherits all standart properties of Wonders (Tourism, Era score, Adjacency bonus for Theater Squares, trigger inspiration for Drama and poetry, etc). Provides 3 relic slots.

Civilization Ability - Promised Land
Start with nearest land Natural Wonder revealed. Religion can be found only at Natural wonder tile if passable, or adjacent otherwise and starts with 4 unlocked beliefs. Israel's capital city is always the Holy city of religion founded by Israel. +5 Faith and +5 Great Prophet points per turn (on standart speed) before the first city is settled. Gain Great Prophet points equal to Era Score earned. All religions found after religion founded by Israel will additionaly receive its Founder Belief.

Tier 2 starting bias toward desert.

Unique Unit - Maccabee
Israeli unique Classical era melee unit. Can be purchased with Faith. Can spread religion 2 times.

Unlocked at Bronze Working. Upgrades to Swordsmen.
Melee Strength: 28
Production cost: 65

Unique Infrastructure - Temple Mount
A district unique to Israel, placed once in your empire to commemorate your government choices. Replaces Government Plaza. Provides +8 Loyalty per turn to this city, and an increase of +2 to the adjacency bonuses being earned by any adjacent district. Adjacent districts receive additional faith adjacency bonus equal to their relative adjacency bonus. Awards +1 Governor title. Must be built on a hill tile. Unlocked at Astrology.
 
Last edited:
My humble concept for ancient Israel civ.
Aside from generally being rather OP, a few thoughts...

Civilization Ability - Promised Land
Start with nearest land Natural Wonder revealed. Religion can be found only at Natural wonder tile if passable, or adjacent otherwise and starts with 4 unlocked beliefs. Israel's capital city is always the Holy city of religion founded by Israel. +5 Faith and +5 Great Prophet points per turn (on standart speed) before the first city is settled. Gain Great Prophet points equal to Era Score earned. All religions found after religion founded by Israel will additionaly receive its Founder Belief.
Not sure exactly what you're going for here. The Dead Sea doesn't exactly have religious significance for Judaism. Mt. Sinai was a natural wonder in Civ5, but it's in Egypt. Neither Sinai nor the Temple Mount are exactly wondrous outside of their history. Also, given Judaism's extreme iconophobia and repeated injunctions by the prophets to tear down the "high places" that were traditional Canaanite shrines, the idea of sacred natural wonders would be pretty theologically horrifying for Jews. I presume gaining the Founder Belief of successive religions is a nod to the later Abrahamic faiths, but Judaism regards all of them as blasphemous to varying degrees nor have they benefited from the spread of Christianity and Islam (Eastern Christianity has been fairly neutral towards them.

Unique Unit - Maccabee
Israeli unique Classical era melee unit. Can be purchased with Faith. Can spread religion 2 times.
The Maccabees weren't really a religious rebellion; the Zealot or Sicarius would fit that profile better.

Unique Infrastructure - Temple Mount
A district unique to Israel, placed once in your empire to commemorate your government choices. Replaces Government Plaza. Provides +8 Loyalty per turn to this city, and an increase of +2 to the adjacency bonuses being earned by any adjacent district. Adjacent districts receive additional faith adjacency bonus equal to their relative adjacency bonus. Awards +1 Governor title. Must be built on a hill tile. Unlocked at Astrology.
Government Plaza is an interesting thought since it's already a one-per-empire district, but it has the downside of allowing Holy Sites in other cities. In the design I posted earlier I chose to give Israel a buffed Holy Site that was one-per-empire to represent the prohibition against sacred sites outside of Jerusalem.
 
Not sure exactly what you're going for here. The Dead Sea doesn't exactly have religious significance for Judaism. Mt. Sinai was a natural wonder in Civ5, but it's in Egypt. Neither Sinai nor the Temple Mount are exactly wondrous outside of their history. Also, given Judaism's extreme iconophobia and repeated injunctions by the prophets to tear down the "high places" that were traditional Canaanite shrines, the idea of sacred natural wonders would be pretty theologically horrifying for Jews. I presume gaining the Founder Belief of successive religions is a nod to the later Abrahamic faiths, but Judaism regards all of them as blasphemous to varying degrees nor have they benefited from the spread of Christianity and Islam (Eastern Christianity has been fairly neutral towards them.
What about this?
Promised Land: Your capital city center gains +2 Great Prophet points per turn. +2 movement to units when escorting a Great Prophet. Pastures and Camps gain +2 faith. -20% yields to districts, buildings and improvements built on desert tiles.
 
What about this?
Promised Land: Your capital city center gains +2 Great Prophet points per turn. +2 movement to units when escorting a Great Prophet. Pastures and Camps gain +2 faith. -20% yields to districts, buildings and improvements built on desert tiles.
I get the movement when escorting Great Prophets is a nod to the 40 years in the wilderness, but I'm not sure in what circumstances it would be actually useful in-game. Faith from Pastures and Camps is straight from my own design so I'm obviously on board with that. :p Also not sure about the desert penalty. The Negev and the Arabah aren't exactly the center of Judean society, but they weren't wholly unpopulated, either. If it's to balance out Ezarin's "Wisdom of Solomon" ability, I don't think it quite does so.
 
I get the movement when escorting Great Prophets is a nod to the 40 years in the wilderness, but I'm not sure in what circumstances it would be actually useful in-game.
I figured there would always be a possibility that you'd need a use for them before you possibly get Holy Sites. Maybe just an extra +2 movement for settlers when escorted by religious units would be better?
Also not sure about the desert penalty. The Negev and the Arabah aren't exactly the center of Judean society, but they weren't wholly unpopulated, either. If it's to balance out Ezarin's "Wisdom of Solomon" ability, I don't think it quite does so.
It was more along the lines of having your units wander through the desert to reach better lands, like how they had to cross the Sinai desert.

Not like desert is desirable anyways, so I guess not that much of a malus either way. :)
 
I don't understand why there's no Israel as a full civ? but only Jerusalem as CS (in previous civs this city is even listed amongs Roman Cities!). If there's gonna be one, then
1. Ancient or Classical civ.
2. Leader. Solomon (Solomon Wisdom)
3. UU. Zealot. (Khopesh swordsman with religious buffs)
 
Not sure exactly what you're going for here.
Ability mostly refers to the events after exodus from Egypt, Moses receiving the Ten Commandmends at mount Sinai and wandering in desert for 40 years before reaching the Promised land.

I presume gaining the Founder Belief of successive religions is a nod to the later Abrahamic faiths, but Judaism regards all of them as blasphemous to varying degrees nor have they benefited from the spread of Christianity and Islam (Eastern Christianity has been fairly neutral towards them.
You didn't get the ability right, it's successive religions who receives Founder Belief of Israel's religion, not the other way around. It's a malus of ability, you can reliably get first religion in the game, but all subsequent religions will get benefit from it.

The Maccabees weren't really a religious rebellion; the Zealot or Sicarius would fit that profile better.
Well, I must admit, i'm not the best at ancient history of Israel, even though I live in Israel for a little more than 10 years by now. What I remember is that their dynasty was a caste of priests, and while their time of being rebbels and rulers are two different periods, the whole meaning of rebbelion was to preserve hebrew religion and tradition, so I find opportunity to merge religious and military unit together fascinating and fitting in this case, and instead of making it very powerfull military unit, give it economic benefits instead.

Government Plaza is an interesting thought since it's already a one-per-empire district, but it has the downside of allowing Holy Sites in other cities. In the design I posted earlier I chose to give Israel a buffed Holy Site that was one-per-empire to represent the prohibition against sacred sites outside of Jerusalem.
I don't think prohibition of holy sites is needed, Synagogues existed in period of Second Temple, so hebrews certainly had places for religious purposes other than Temple Mount. In your design I find it very underwhelming for a religious civ to basically give up on religious district for a very dubious benefit. Defending your religion usually not a hard part of religious game, especially from passive sources.
 
Last edited:
Aside from generally being rather OP, a few thoughts...


Not sure exactly what you're going for here. The Dead Sea doesn't exactly have religious significance for Judaism. Mt. Sinai was a natural wonder in Civ5, but it's in Egypt. Neither Sinai nor the Temple Mount are exactly wondrous outside of their history. Also, given Judaism's extreme iconophobia and repeated injunctions by the prophets to tear down the "high places" that were traditional Canaanite shrines, the idea of sacred natural wonders would be pretty theologically horrifying for Jews. I presume gaining the Founder Belief of successive religions is a nod to the later Abrahamic faiths, but Judaism regards all of them as blasphemous to varying degrees nor have they benefited from the spread of Christianity and Islam (Eastern Christianity has been fairly neutral towards them.


The Maccabees weren't really a religious rebellion; the Zealot or Sicarius would fit that profile better.


Government Plaza is an interesting thought since it's already a one-per-empire district, but it has the downside of allowing Holy Sites in other cities. In the design I posted earlier I chose to give Israel a buffed Holy Site that was one-per-empire to represent the prohibition against sacred sites outside of Jerusalem.
Someone else brought up the Great Salt Lake and compared it to similar bonuses that the Dead Sea would have, and they are both natural wonders. One difference is that units would be able to walk on the Salt Lake. The Dead Sea isn't walkable, but it is still a natural wonder. Mt. Sinai is also a natural wonder, and they should stay that way simply because they have significant additions to the natural wonders that already exist.
 
I think the revolution of Israel is a bit like a dark policy card because God eventually gave the Israelites up to their enemies when they refused to listen to him. No one was forced to listen to him, but eventually other people-the philistines usually- became the new 'Israelites' or the people of god. There god found his people again and eventually the new people took over Israelites this way until the Israelites remembered that their greatness was because of god and not because of themselves.
 
You didn't get the ability right, it's successive religions who receives Founder Belief of Israel's religion, not the other way around. It's a malus of ability, you can reliably get first religion in the game, but all subsequent religions will get benefit from it.
That makes more sense.

I don't think prohibition of holy sites is needed, Synagogues existed in period of Second Temple, so hebrews certainly had places for religious purposes other than Temple Mount. In your design I find it very underwhelming for a religious civ to basically give up on religious district for a very dubious benefit. Defending your religion usually not a hard part of religious game, especially from passive sources.
I never envisioned Israel as a civ that's trying to win religious victory. IRL Jews have ranged from lukewarm to outright rejecting converts (which is still the case; lots of debate within Judaism as to "who is a Jew"). I envisioned it as a civ that uses its strong religious turtling to advance towards culture or diplomatic victory. Considering the civ is already swimming in Faith from other sources and the Zion Temple's buildings are pumping out Gold, Food, and Culture as well as Faith, I think it's a pretty robust design. Another reason that I like the design of only one Holy Site is it's one less district to build, which ties into the general theme I was going for of Judah as a very rural civ that builds few districts.

(Regarding holy places, a few points there: my design was much more compactly built around First Temple Judah, when the prohibition was much stricter, but synagogues also developed outside of Judea for the very practical reason that the Temple of Jerusalem was inaccessible for many years and, even after it was made accessible, was far away from Jews living in Alexandria, Antioch, Seleucia-Ctesiphon, etc. Second Temple Judaism was very different from First Temple Judaism--and, of course, it would change again after the destruction of the Second Temple, along with all schools of Judaism other than the Pharisees as the Sicarii murdered the Sadducees and the Romans eliminated the Essenes and Christianity became totally divorced from its Jewish origins.)
 
I never envisioned Israel as a civ that's trying to win religious victory.
I envisioned it as a civ that uses its strong religious turtling to advance towards culture or diplomatic victory.

From a gameplay perspective, I don't really want to cut any civ from certain victory conditions. Your design doesn't seem to prevent it either, and don't have direct bonuses for cultural or diplomatic victory, other then improvement with culture output which would output tourism after flight, but it is too small of a bonus (IIRC improvents give tourism only from inherit culture yield, so improvements adjacent to Ebenezer wouldn't get tourism from it). Aside from it, when i say religious civ, I don't necessarily mean that it should chase religious victory, but rather that it should greatly benefit from having religion, and HSs are important part of it.

Jews have ranged from lukewarm to outright rejecting converts (which is still the case; lots of debate within Judaism as to "who is a Jew").
From one side you're right, Judaism by design might be condfessed only by hebrews, but there is a big nuance in it. Jewish identity doesn't fit into concepts of race or nationality, at least from a jewish culture standpoint, because this culture has a mechanism that makes a jew from a non-jew (at some point in my life I was suggested to do it), which doesn't make sense from perspective of concepts mentioned above. The joke is, I think "I circumcised all male population on earth" would be the biggest unofficial selling point for hebrew civilization. Don't forget that we're talking about Sid Meier's Civilization series, which is historical fiction and ability to do some historical nonsense is important part of its appeal. I'm simply have an approach to do fun stuff with civs, not to be dead serious about it. After all, you can't really correctly squeeze any culture into 4 bonuses in computer game, not to mention culture that has more than 3000 years of history.
 
Top Bottom