Kayak
Partisan
Thats just it, it is just ready for selective enforcement.Xanikk999 said:
I am afraid. I am very afraid.
- Thread starter Rik Meleet
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MjM
Deity
tomsnowman123 said:
That point is along long way off, probably never. Not now. Its just paranoia.
Kayak
Partisan
Just curious. At what point would you say enough?MjM said:
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
Kayak said:
Exactly, how much far do you let it go? If it's in the name of security do you give the government leeway? It seems like every year or so something like this pops up. It causes anger, but never enough for people to really do anything about it. Do we let this pattern continue? How much longer do we let the government increase their powers?
malclave said:
Yeah, but that doesn't mean I support it.
MjM
Deity
Kayak said:
When I feel any information the government extracts from me isnt useful in the larger scope, capturing criminals and such, and when people are 'dissapearing' for disagreeing with the government. Things like this.
Monitoring traffic and checking phone records isn't spying on you. Its just alot of misguided paranoia.
Kayak
Partisan
It seems that your standard might be "when it starts to affect me".MjM said:
Just a thought here: "when people are 'dissapearing' for disagreeing with the government" at this point it will be a tad too late.
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
Kayak said:
Yeah, that is really late. If people were dissapearing for disagreeing, I don't think many people would be willing to disagree with what the government is doing. We need to make a stand now.
MjM
Deity
Kayak said:
Well, a few oddball cases arent enough to get worked up about. So, yes, I guess when it effects me, but more the common person as a whole, which it does not now.
And that was just an example, though that is too far.
MjM
Deity
tomsnowman123 said:
So your calling for Revoloution because of some phone records?
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
MjM said:
I think any cases are enough to get worked up about. It means that the spying is working. I guess that's a good thing for those who support it, but it's not a good sign for those who don't. It means the government is getting to be capable of controlling it's citizens.
What about things like 911 calls displaying the address of the caller? That's a pretty blatant use of the government tracking someone.tomsnowman123 said:
Reapportionment of representatives in Congress following the national census?
Mail being delivered?
Kayak
Partisan
Man I hate to Godwyn an argument but you do realize where that sort of attitude leads to right?MjM said:
OK you lost me...Fetus4188 said:
How about just some oversight? A few checks and balances maybe?MjM said:
Kayak
Partisan
You don't have to callmalclave said:
Really, that data is not stored by our goverment and it is clear case of common good.
When you can find my personal data in the census info I'll oppose that too.
The govt. does not take who gets what mail in a giant database last I heard. Anyway, existing and where you are located is not covered under a basic assumption of privacy.
MjM
Deity
Kayak said:
An arguement, nope, leaving right now....
If it does get out of hand, it will be stopped though.
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
malclave said:
Well, they're not storing my 911 call in a large database to spy on me. If I was dying, I want them to know where I am. Mail isn't tracked, as far as we know.
MjM said:
Well, I would like to see a drastic change (read sig for my ideas on politics, and let me warn you in advance, you may disagree with them).
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
Fetus4188 said:
My philosophy is there should be no government.
Xenocrates
Deity
As I see it, the problem is that while the Government could catch criminals, it is also possible that people could be 'fitted up' (ie made to look guilty) all too easilly.
For example records could be ammended to show that you looked at internet child porn extremely easilly. Even if the court didn't accept the 'evidence' you'd still be vilified for the rest of your life and your credibility destroyed.
Your mobile telephone records could be ammended and your car tracked to 'prove' that you were at the scene of a crime, or that you consorted with terrorists, your DNA records changed or your identity stolen.
That's a big disincentive to speak out; even if it doesn't happen, the fear that it might is enough.
It all depends on whether the government is an agency of the security services or vice versa. Do your elected representatives have full control over the spooks? I know that in the UK mine don't. How can they have full control over the spooks, they're all afraid that they too will fall foul of them.
For example records could be ammended to show that you looked at internet child porn extremely easilly. Even if the court didn't accept the 'evidence' you'd still be vilified for the rest of your life and your credibility destroyed.
Your mobile telephone records could be ammended and your car tracked to 'prove' that you were at the scene of a crime, or that you consorted with terrorists, your DNA records changed or your identity stolen.
That's a big disincentive to speak out; even if it doesn't happen, the fear that it might is enough.
It all depends on whether the government is an agency of the security services or vice versa. Do your elected representatives have full control over the spooks? I know that in the UK mine don't. How can they have full control over the spooks, they're all afraid that they too will fall foul of them.
How exactly is anarchy a feasible option for a human society?tomsnowman123 said:
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