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Idea for Religion: Holy City States

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by craig123, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    The holy city of Christianity is Jerusalem, not the Vatican.
     
  2. wapamingo

    wapamingo Prince

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    It is, but Vatican has grown in almost if not greater importance over the millenia - but only for Catholics. So, ok. Jerusalem for Christianity as a whole.
     
  3. craig123

    craig123 Prince

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    Thank you - now corrected. Wouldn't want someone stealing the idea on a technicality! :lol:
     
  4. generalwar

    generalwar Philosopher

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    This is a really good idea and I'm for it.:goodjob:
     
  5. Crazy George

    Crazy George Destined to Rule

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    As an idea for implementation, switching to a religion could open a Social Policy tree dedicated to that religion, which is mutually exclusive with other religions... and possibly other Social Policies.
     
  6. Darth Caesar

    Darth Caesar Might be a Wizard

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    Thats too complicated.
     
  7. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    Great idea ! :goodjob:
    I think that piety/rationalism tree should affect your relationship with the religious city-state (of your religion). While piety policies will make them happy but rationalism would make religion less important in later eras.
    What if religions are founded at different times. Earlier religions will spread slower while late religions like Christianity & Islam will quickly spread over to compensate with that. And the personality of different religion leading city-state would be different. Christian one for example will more easily launch crusades etc. :hmm:
     
  8. Grimlin

    Grimlin Chieftain

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    Marvelous idea! There are endless possibilities with this implementation :)
     
  9. wapamingo

    wapamingo Prince

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    I was one of the first to support this!
     
  10. craig123

    craig123 Prince

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    That might work but would have to be carefully balanced. For example, if Islam is founded in the 7th Century and everyone already has a religion at that point, what would happen? Would it just be destroyed? Or would it be strong enough to convert everyone else? Personally I think the simplest and most transparent way would be for all religions to be founded in 4000 BC.

    Firaxis would probably decide to make all religions equal again to avoid any 'offense'. It would be interesting which holy city states were Friendly/Neutral/Hostile/Irrational. That could lead to some PC issues. :mischief: Although, it could just be random...
     
  11. theis81

    theis81 Warlord

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    2 good suggestions for how to implement it.

    However I don't like the idea of knowing that since you start next to Vatican you know that in a specific year christianity will be founded there. And before the relgion is founded what are the benefits from the city state then?

    Any ideas to solve the above problems?
     
  12. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    Yes, that was the main problem. There was a bit of "you have declared war on our brothers and sisters in the faith" unhappiness, but nothing major, and you could solve that with the culture slider anyway. (In Civ5 that could be a far more powerful mechanic with no easy ways to temporarily raise happiness during war.)

    With an independent holy city, you could have the "pope"* excommunicate you with the appropriate penalties if you declare war on a fellow religionist.

    Major question that still remains to be solved is what happens if a civ takes over the holy city? Of course the "pope" will rally the other civs of that religion in his defense, but if they lose? Everyone just obeys or will there be a schism?

    * That assumes that we use the Roman-Catholic church as the model, as they are the only major religion with a strong central leader, although they are a bit of an exception.
     
  13. craig123

    craig123 Prince

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    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  14. EvanMeisterX

    EvanMeisterX Warlord

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    I love this idea, however:

    I was thinking the same thing. What happens if a civ conquers the holy city? Maybe it could be semi-autonomous, but still part of your empire? Or maybe it could be like what Puerto Rico is to the U.S. This would have to have a solution, or else you could just conquer holy cities, and end up just like Civ4.
     
  15. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    There should be multiple candidates for holy city of a certain religion so that you are not 100% sure that your neighbour city state is going to become a holy city. After all in ciV gameplay > realism. ;)
    Penalties for the civ following that religion or maybe holycity shifts if it remains under foreign rule for too long.
     
  16. Centurio

    Centurio Warlord

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    I don't think this means much, but you have my support!
     
  17. theis81

    theis81 Warlord

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    I like that idea and thought about it myself, but what is the function of a holy city city state, when it doesn't have a religion. Earlier I proposed that all cultural city states could become holy citities and that way change their "type". Maybe it shouldn't be limited to cultural city states.

    Another issue, the numer of religions should depend on number of civs. I hated when playing small maps with a few friends in civIV that there was plenty of religions for all of us.
     
  18. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I think there are a thousand ways you could implement this, but if firaxis were to do it it would probably be simple, I think that would be just fine.

    You could do it this way:


    1) Some city states are holy cities and religions.
    2) They can ask you to convert to their religion as a favor.
    3) Being in teh same religion as a city state gives an influence bonus to that city state, and a penalty to city states with an opposing religion.
    4) Crusades could be announced, you can combat bonuses against civ with the opposing religion.
     
  19. craig123

    craig123 Prince

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    A few ideas: 1) Make it so that you get more benefits from an independent holy city than a conquered one; 2) Have a happiness penalty for multiple religions (at least until the later eras) to deter player from capturing rival holy cities; 3) When conquering a holy city, every civ of that religion could unite against you to liberate the city; 4) If other civs can't liberate a holy city, other followers of the faith could 'schism' and form a new holy city (giving something like Protestant and Catholic, or Sunni and Shi'a).
     
  20. Cull

    Cull Big Daddy

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    Would offend way too many people no matter what.
     

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