Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Sarisin]

One other thing about the d'Tesh I have noticed in my game is that they are churning out GPs at the rate of about one per ten turns. They had plenty of Priests in particular and I find that a little weird as they cannot have a religion, right?

Anyway, my first game with them in the game, and I have to add them to the Archos as one civ you MUST eliminate very early in the game or you will have problems!

 

[azzedar]

without elder councils first of all it takes longer to get to writing and start spamming libraries, in time whereas others have councils+libraries in their cities already and can start pushing the real cost techs, which can act a bit like a reverse-snowball effect sometimes.

btw. would even wonder me if he had gone directly for writing with calabim. im not a big strategist (and consider myself an average ffh player at best) but i guess there other things more important for calabim first, or not?

nevertheless. as i already wrote, i accept your opinion on the dtesh. they are op.

yet another 'but': many races in ffh/rife arent balanced. there will always be races not only slightly but signifantly stronger than others. as long as there isnt a race that literally shoots with lasers at flies im okay with it. and as im playing against pc most of the time, fighting the dtesh is HARDLY the worst enemy you can get.

 

[Torugu]

without elder councils first of all it takes longer to get to writing and start spamming libraries, in time whereas others have councils+libraries in their cities already and can start pushing the real cost techs, which can act a bit like a reverse-snowball effect sometimes.

btw. would even wonder me if he had gone directly for writing with calabim. im not a big strategist (and consider myself an average ffh player at best) but i guess there other things more important for calabim first, or not?

nevertheless. as i already wrote, i accept your opinion on the dtesh. they are op.

I agree about the importance of Elder Councils, it's the second building I construct in any newly founded city (after the monument).

yet another 'but': many races in ffh/rife arent balanced. there will always be races not only slightly but signifantly stronger than others. as long as there isnt a race that literally shoots with lasers at flies im okay with it. and as im playing against pc most of the time, fighting the dtesh is HARDLY the worst enemy you can get.

That's because the AI sucks at using them. It's the polar opposite of it being played by a human. AI D'Tesh are so weak that I have frequently considered making them the first civ to ban from my games, they never seem to build any improvements other than roads . Of course I might just have been unlucky though.
I also agree about some civs being stronger than others, that's inevitable. And that's why I never complained about the Mazatl and the Illians. However the problem with the D'Tesh is that they aren't just unbalanced, they are gamebreaking. You can safely consider a game won the same moment you see the face of one of the D'Tesh leaders on the "The Age of Ice is over" popup. (We usually random our mp civs to stop players from playing only with the top tier civs.) The only thing that can still kill you at this point of time is one of those Minotaurs razing your capital by walking through it (rather than attacking it) and a Clan boss rush before turn 20.

 

[azzedar]

suppose thats true. btw, dont "form terrain" civs have a general strong advantage in mp games? guess you wont restart till everyone's happy with the starting location.
played ffh on mp only a very few times long time ago. basically its the game i play in sp a few rounds a week to relax when im bored with playing games online with friends or coming from university - so my knowledge on this part is based more on theory, rather than gameplay experience.

well, then lets hope someone important reads this and takes changes (preferable the ones i suggested so i get that little warm feeling in my heart) into consideration

 

[Torugu]

suppose thats true. btw, dont "form terrain" civs have a general strong advantage in mp games? guess you wont restart till everyone's happy with the starting location.

Not nearly as big as one might think, the quality of a starting location doesn't depend so much on which terrain you start on (flavour start makes sure the Lanun don't start in the middle of the desert anyway) but on how much room you have to expand.

well, then lets hope someone important reads this and takes changes (preferable the ones i suggested so i get that little warm feeling in my heart) into consideration

seconded

 

[Sjru]

Please, could someone give me technical information on how Scions %Awakened work?

 

[azzedar]

total spawn is limited by map size, and spawn chance is affected by your cities sizes. furthermore allmost all unique buildings of the scions increase the %spawn chance per turn... till the maximum of course. which can be rather small playing on a small map (as far as i remember). patrian artifacts should increase it as well.
for exact formula try searching. this should be absolutely something that can be be found

/edit:
shame on me, cant find it either. but im sure there was a post somewhere...

 

[shoggi]

The exact formula is pretty long.
I looked at the code and it is a lot.
if you want to have a look yourself it is "rise from erebus/assets/python/CustomFunction.py
Search for "doChanceAwakenedSpawn"

What increases spawn?

Most luxury resources. They increase the counter once, regardless, how many you have of them.
Patrian Artifacts. They increase the counter each time you get some.
Each Body Mana, once you have the Flesh Studio
The Following Buildings: Temple of the Gift, Hall of the Covenant, Imperial Cenotaph, Shrine to Kylorin. You get a boost each time you build one.
Aristocracy modifies the end spawn chance by * 1.25, as long as you follow it.


Then there are some difficulty and game speed modifiers.

The counter decays each turn based on how far you progress in the game. The further you get, the faster it decays. At least, that's what the code looks like.

Max Awakened spawn is based on mapsize.

 

[Sjru]

Aristocracy? I though that the bonus was with God King (As the capital is so important)

 

[shoggi]

Thought so too, but the code definitely say Aristocracy. No mentioning of God King anywhere i can see. Maybe this was changed at some point, don't know.

edit/
Ah wait, there is a mention of God King, but it has nothing to do with the Awakened. I think it makes the Reborn cheaper to build. Not sure about that, didn't read to far into that part of the code.

 

[Sjru]

I think God King makes more sense... The Risen Emperor is a sort of God King. Aristocracy hold nobles, etc.

 

[Niveras]

I think it used to be linked to God King, but it was changed because Awakened are really the noble class for the Scions, and Aristocracy fit that type better than God King. Plus any reason to get civs to prefer God King less is good, it is too often the first choice for a lot civs, especially early game.

 

[Tarquelne]

I think God King makes more sense... The Risen Emperor is a sort of God King. Aristocracy hold nobles, etc.

The idea was that power/glory is shared more among the higher-ups - instead of just most going to the Emperor - with Aristoracy, and that makes the civic more attractive to Awakened.

Plus it's a little encouragement to switch away from God King.

Arg. Ninjad. Adding to Enemies List.

 

[Valkrionn]

First: Already discussed D'tesh balance in the other thread, won't do it here too. I will discuss interesting ideas, though.

well, i like the d'tesh but, as some have posted already, also think theyre a bit op, which is, i think, mostly because of their recon line.

what about going deeper into that sustained invisibility concept:
giving their invisi a -x%chance to capture a slave, whereas the x is enough to down all chances of getting a slave (should be easily done via promotion).
this would do several things: first it makes the dteshi player to decide whether to send his units harass and do some guerilla tactics OR go on a slave hunt while, second, still leaving a gap for tactics: aka, you need to level up your recons using invisi till theyre strong enough to attack openly capturing slaves (which should hopefully delay their civ pop increase a bit, therefor also productivity etc)
afaik invisi can already be turned off manualy for a unit, so this shouldnt be a problem
third, invisi for recon overall could be given a min level (not more than 3 or 4 i guess), which will inevitably lead to losing some recon units on their way up, before you can even start collecting slaves.

This would be a good idea. Possibly a very good idea, at least the slave chance malus. I think I'll do it.

That's because the AI sucks at using them.

Not once we teach the AI how to sacrifice units for pop effectively... Big help for D'tesh, Scions, Infernals, AND Frozen.

Please, could someone give me technical information on how Scions %Awakened work?

Already been answered.

The idea was that power/glory is shared more among the higher-ups - instead of just most going to the Emperor - with Aristoracy, and that makes the civic more attractive to Awakened.

Plus it's a little encouragement to switch away from God King.

Arg. Ninjad. Adding to Enemies List.

So long as giant gila monster riding hamsters stay at the top.

 

[Tschuggi]

Moin,

has there ever been the plan to establish espionage (like in Orbis), spies, great spies for Rife? I think Sephi isn't working on any plan for WM 9.0, at least I can't remember it... have you guys ever thought of it. Civ 4 has everything already developed, Orbis has it already adopted so it shouldn't be a huge problem. And AI is using it quite well in Orbis. Maybe you guys could offer it via a module or gameoption. Espionage should be a part of a Fantasymodmod.

Greez,

Tschuggi

 

[azzedar]

ooohooooh, there it comes, that warm feeling i predicted

@tschuggi: judging from several posts Valkrionn made over the time, they seem to be pretty agreed about not ever (at least not in the next big steps) implementing espionage (and that involves great spies) into rife.

 

[Sjru]

Yay, I have an idea: Make Mokka's Cauldron portable! (Like Acheron's hoard or Akharien's crown). But first, that wonder must be fixed.

Another: Please, an option to auto-promote workers. Also fix Hardy promo, since they'got no defense values, such promo doesn't work.
Thanks.----

 

[odalrick]

Another: Please, an option to auto-promote workers.

Cough, cough, odmod.

Actually there is a minor conflict with the Mekara mod; and fixing it will make the launcher report a conflict. Ah, the joys of modding.

 

[azzedar]

are there any plans to change the mercurians? they wont get a new leader either. are they regarded as done?

 

[inuyashasama]

Moin,

has there ever been the plan to establish espionage (like in Orbis), spies, great spies for Rife? I think Sephi isn't working on any plan for WM 9.0, at least I can't remember it... have you guys ever thought of it. Civ 4 has everything already developed, Orbis has it already adopted so it shouldn't be a huge problem. And AI is using it quite well in Orbis. Maybe you guys could offer it via a module or gameoption. Espionage should be a part of a Fantasymodmod.

Greez,

Tschuggi

Valk says he has a basic framework written up on his computer that outlines how he would implement espionage... and that there are more important mechanics. In other words, probably not.