[RD] I'm transitioning. If you've ever been confused about the T in LGBT, ask me anything

[Ajidica]

Thank you for asking this question. This is actually a really decent thing to do when meeting transgender people, and starting off by asking someone which pronouns they use is a great way to begin a conversation in good faith.

I've been wondering about this. If I know someone is transgender, should I treat them as whatever gender they are presenting themselves as or as a transgender person? I would assume I would treat them as whatever gender they present themselves as* but you seem to indicate it would be better for me to ask them what gender they prefer to identify as. That just seems a bit tactless, along the lines of me asking a person of Asian descent "What country are you from" right off the bat.

*For those who seem to go out of there way to make it difficult to tell visually and it is a situation where it is important for it to be known, I'm sorry but we both get to suffer through the awkwardness of asking what gender you are.

 

[Borachio]

Ooh. I very often ask people of obviously non-native origin what their roots are right off the bat. (After all, if you don't ask them right away, when is the right time?)

I tend to preface my question with "I hope you don't mind me asking, but..." Or "You've an accent I don't recognize. Where's it from? If you don't mind me asking."

And after they tell me (if it really is somewhere foreign), I'm always sure to add something along the lines of "Oh that's a lovely country from everything I've heard about it. I've never been there. But I hope to one day".

I've never had any negative reactions to this. People seem only too happy that I've shown an interest.

Creepy stuff, eh?

 

[Hygro]

Ooh. I very often ask people of obviously non-native origin what their roots are right off the bat. (After all, if you don't ask them right away, when is the right time?)

I tend to preface my question with "I hope you don't mind me asking, but..." Or "You've an accent I don't recognize. Where's it from? If you don't mind me asking."

And after they tell me (if it really is somewhere foreign), I'm always sure to add something along the lines of "Oh that's a lovely country from everything I've heard about it. I've never been there. But I hope to one day".

I've never had any negative reactions to this. People seem only too happy that I've shown an interest.

Creepy stuff, eh?

Yeah, my dad did this on a road trip through some national parks. He'd ask every person with a strong accent or speaking in another language where they were from. SUPER CRINGY right? Body language-wise, the immediate response was like "this ****ing question?" but they'd answer, and he'd continue his enthusiasm with some kind of positive response and every. single. time. he got good welcoming energy back. But only once he responded to the response to his original question. They'd even want to talk to him about it sometimes.

There's so many rules about how to respect people that are meant to sound 100% just to shut down the bad apples. The problem with that is, you have to step on some toes to learn how to partner dance well. Everyone starts of an amateur worried they could be the bad apple, but everyone wants good partner dancers.

 

[Vectors]

Contre, how are you so cute?

 

[emzie]

I take my wife's advice and she didn't have Barbies growing up, so I'm sure there's some repressed childhood joy escaping from her -- she's so keen on it it's adorable ^.^

 

[Vectors]

I take my wife's advice and she didn't have Barbies growing up, so I'm sure there's some repressed childhood joy escaping from her -- she's so keen on it it's adorable ^.^

Well, she seems to be doing an excellent job.

Do you also have tea parties?

 

[Omega124]

I would say I don't think it has changed my perception very much, or at all.

I would say that I am definitely better informed though.

Contrary to what may have been perceived, I was already sympathetic beforehand so I wouldn't say I was MORE sympathetic now. I would hope you would want more than just sympathy though, I would imagine it would be quite condescending to have everyone around you constantly sympathetic, rather than just treating you as any other person. But obviously still better than some other alternatives.

I don't really want to dredge up an already settled issue, but I don't really consider calling me a "crude approximation of a woman" to be all that sympathetic. I understand you at least thinking you were non malicious but... I don't know that was some real messed up sympathies if you think it was being sympathetic.

But either way, no, I don't consider being sympathetic to be condescending at all? I don't really understand why it would be? I'd rather have people be supportive and understanding of me rather than not. I mean, we might just be using the terms differently but I just don't really understand.

And lastly I'd just say that I hope you found it a worthwhile experience. One last question I'd ask is, did you have any trepidation about starting the thread? Or... did contre start the thread (edit: yes she did...)? Well, if she did, did you have any trepidation about diving into it yourself? If so, do you think it was worth taking the plunge?

I orgionally wanted to do this before, weeks before this was posted, on my own. I always have the nagging suspicion that I talk way too much on being trans and trans issues to them, and I wanted to have an outlet to do it that wasn't me constantly bothering them (even if they all said that I wasn't) But, I was advised not to by some of my friends on IOT, who thought that it wouldn't be received well (and considering some of the posters here I wouldn't be surprised. Hell,my ou were there when this thread went nutters around page 10ish as a certain crowd made themselves home). But, I knew when I saw this being posted by contre, that I had to do this myself.

I think it was worth it. I do think I'm getting the message across to many posters on what it's like to be trans

I've been wondering about this. If I know someone is transgender, should I treat them as whatever gender they are presenting themselves as or as a transgender person? I would assume I would treat them as whatever gender they present themselves as* but you seem to indicate it would be better for me to ask them what gender they prefer to identify as. That just seems a bit tactless, along the lines of me asking a person of Asian descent "What country are you from" right off the bat.

Think of it this way. It might be kind of awkward to ask that kind of question to people you don't know. But you know what would be more awkward? Going up to a Chinese person and calling them Japanese. Thats what people do to me every day, except with gender rather than ethnicity. I understand I'm not exactly presenting female yet, but it still does hurt a bit, you know?

In general, I'm assuming people perfer you being right than being tactful. Breaching the former seems to me be a bigger violation of decency. You should only have to ask once, and then as long as you remember their awnser, you should be golden. I don't think it's that hard.

Contre, how are you so cute?

Am I cute too?

 

[Vectors]

Am I cute too?

I don't recall having seen any pictures of you so I don't know,

 

[Civ'ed]

Am I cute too?

Most definitely :3

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I don't really want to dredge up an already settled issue, but I don't really consider calling me a "crude approximation of a woman" to be all that sympathetic. I understand you at least thinking you were non malicious but... I don't know that was some real messed up sympathies if you think it was being sympathetic.

But either way, no, I don't consider being sympathetic to be condescending at all? I don't really understand why it would be? I'd rather have people be supportive and understanding of me rather than not. I mean, we might just be using the terms differently but I just don't really understand.

Whatever. You say you don't want to dredge it up (despite then doing so), and this isn't the place anyway, so I guess I won't respond to that. Feel free to PM me or ask me in that other gender issues thread (if you can find it and it hasn't been locked) if you want me to try and explain my thoughts better, but if you've already made your mind up then let's leave it there.

I orgionally wanted to do this before, weeks before this was posted, on my own. I always have the nagging suspicion that I talk way too much on being trans and trans issues to them, and I wanted to have an outlet to do it that wasn't me constantly bothering them (even if they all said that I wasn't) But, I was advised not to by some of my friends on IOT, who thought that it wouldn't be received well (and considering some of the posters here I wouldn't be surprised. Hell,my ou were there when this thread went nutters around page 10ish as a certain crowd made themselves home). But, I knew when I saw this being posted by contre, that I had to do this myself.

I think it was worth it. I do think I'm getting the message across to many posters on what it's like to be trans

Thanks for the answer. I'm confused as to who the "them" are in the first few sentences and I have no idea what IOT is though. And, having looked at page 10, that comment appears to be just about me again, but I guess I shouldn't respond to that either.

 

[Borachio]

Imperium OffTopicum.

It's a role-playing subforum of CFC.

I believe.

 

[Omega124]

Most definitely :3

:3

Thanks for the answer. I'm confused as to who the "them" are in the first few sentences and I have no idea what IOT is though. And, having looked at page 10, that comment appears to be just about me again, but I guess I shouldn't respond to that either.

Actually no. There's a LOT of deleted posts, when a bunch of malcontents took control of the thread. It wasn't really you, but a couple of others who I won't name.

Also what Borachio said in re to IOT.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Actually no. There's a LOT of deleted posts, when a bunch of malcontents took control of the thread. It wasn't really you, but a couple of others who I won't name.

Well even though I was obviously actively reading the thread at that point, I can't actually remember what anyone else was saying at that point that isn't still up there. Not that I can even be sure that my page 10 is your page 10 anyway since I believe that's a user setting somewhere.

 

[Omega124]

Well even though I was obviously actively reading the thread at that point, I can't actually remember what anyone else was saying at that point that isn't still up there. Not that I can even be sure that my page 10 is your page 10 anyway since I believe that's a user setting somewhere.

Ok you're right, it started on Page 11 not 10. My bad. But seriously, Bootstraps had to lock the thread and delete over a page of responses. It was a total loss of control of the thread to some real nasty people.

 

[dusters]

Have you experienced being bad/worse at male typical activities and rationalising it "I'm a transgirl, I shouldn't be that hard on myself" ? If yes, in what in particular?

Or contrary, found yourself performing better in some activities, because of a more "feminine brain" ?

 

[Omega124]

Have you experienced being bad/worse at male typical activities and rationalising it "I'm a transgirl, I shouldn't be that hard on myself" ? If yes, in what in particular?

Or contrary, found yourself performing better in some activities, because of a more "feminine brain" ?

No? I mean, I might sarcastically blame me having a brain fart on "my weak female brain" (a la the historical belief that women had less developed brains than men), but I don't seriously see my skills declining, nor would I blame it on feminizing.

Likewise, I don't see myself doing better at any feminine activity than I was before. About the only thing is that I did find cleaning my dorm a little therapeutic the other day, but I think it was for other reasons (I was and still am homesick. My mom would always play the Eagles when she cleans, and I decided to this time and it did make me feel better).

 

[emzie]

Have you experienced being bad/worse at male typical activities and rationalising it "I'm a transgirl, I shouldn't be that hard on myself" ? If yes, in what in particular?

Or contrary, found yourself performing better in some activities, because of a more "feminine brain" ?

I'm not sure if I understood the question, could you provide an example of the kind of difference you mean?

 

[dusters]

An example would be FPS games. It has been told that average Joe has a better reaction time than average Sue. Hard science there. Since one understands that she is a transgirl, then the line of thinking would be "If cis-women are inherently worse at this, why should I be equal?"

To rephrase, there are certain things female brain process better due to evolution, and certain things male brain process better. On this spectrum where do transgender brains stand?

As a side note, I don't mean this question to be in any way sexist, it's more meant in a philosophical sense, because with evolution there is a place for everything.

@Omega

Btw, I suppose I misworded my question, because this has nothing to do with the transition itself, or HRT, but the realisation that one doesn't have a male brain. This realisation would/should lead to re-evaluating what talents one could have, to trying new stuff etc.

Think of it as this - "a kid discovers that not only walking is possible, but jumping too". What can be done with this new ability?

 

[Cheetah]

I have a single question for you guys fielding questions. How has this experience changed your perception of trans people? Would you say that you're better informed about us? Less? Do you sympathize with us more now? I'm really curious how effective this thread is.

I'm definitely better informed, so I appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions - even (especially?) the stupid or ill-worded ones.

I also find it easier to sympathise with you now, though honestly, while I am intellectually okay with the whole trans-issue, I'll still need a few more years to adjust emotionally, if that makes any sense.

Only trans people I know are on CFC, so I don't get too much exposure to normal trans people (as opposed to crazy people on TV, etc). So on that note, no, you're not talking too much about it. In fact, I'd rather like regular reminders about the topic, whenever you feel you want to post something.

Also, it's seriously gonna take me some time to unlearn that contre is a guy. I've kinda internalised that she is a he from way back, so I might end up saying it wrong again, even if I don't mean to.

Actually, that might be a question: Do you find that people sometimes struggle to remember that you're now identifying as women, without them intentionally meaning to be wrong? I figure that mostly happens on the Internet, as in real life there would be more than text to remember the transition from.

That question would go double for Cheezy, I suppose.

Ok you're right, it started on Page 11 not 10. My bad. But seriously, Bootstraps had to lock the thread and delete over a page of responses. It was a total loss of control of the thread to some real nasty people.

Hm, I don't remember any deletions either, but there are also posts around that page I don't remember seeing, so I guess I must have missed out on some of it.

As a side note, I don't mean this question to be in any way sexist, it's more meant in a philosophical sense, because with evolution there is a place for everything.

@Omega

Btw, I suppose I misworded my question, because this has nothing to do with the transition itself, or HRT, but the realisation that one doesn't have a male brain. This realisation would/should lead to re-evaluating what talents one could have, to trying new stuff etc.

Think of it as this - "a kid discovers that not only walking is possible, but jumping too". What can be done with this new ability?

Seeing as how trans peoples' brain are mostly the same as before any transitioning, wouldn't whatever preferences or abilities have been there from the start anyway? Except for what the hormones do ofc.

But I think I can give a different question along the same lines: Experiments have shown that women perform worse at math if they had just been exposed to "research" claiming that women are worse at math, while the same correlation was not seen in men. It is hypothesised that this is because women are given a message through society that math is a "guy" thing. Have either of you noticed that you've gotten worse in, say, math, after understanding that you are trans women?

 

[dusters]

@Cheetah

My question is actually really close to what you said - before realising one is trans, the society pushes gender normative acitivities to the person.

When one realises that, it could be a relief "I never liked sports, my male peers didn't understand me, but it's kinda ok if women don't get excited about hockey"

Of course abilities are here from the start, but during childhood phase the kid is pushed by parents, whereas when in adulthood, you can try any hobbies you want and, more importantly, you have your own money for them.