Immortal/ArchipelagoTinyIslands/Standard/9Civilizations/NoHuts/NoEvents, using the first generated map.
First attempt, no cheats, no reloads, not opening/using the world builder.
Spoiler:
.: O v e r v i e w
The target is a UN Diplomatic victory (a Cultural victory will be considered good enough):
the limit is 6 cities (checking the number at the end of each turn)
war cannot be declared: a war may happen only if another civilization declares
join war requests must be refused; in AP start war resolution only Defy!/No/Abstain are allowed
defensive pacts are allowed: if an ally is attacked a war might be declared
in case of war any choice on still fighting or ending the war is free
Scheduling: none. I'll play a short session whenever I will have some free-time to.
The save of each session will be posted, the initial save is attached below.
Please respect secrecy about this game / this map on what I don't know yet / I didn't discover already.
Oh, come on... this is nothing compared to what we are used to in this series!
Spoiler:
In the previous chapter someone dared blaming obsolete for his results!
The idea here is to play a diplomatic game with a spiritual leader, but not one of the habitual stereotyped peaceful leaders, as Gandhi, Asoka, Mansa, Hatshepsut, Ramses II, ...
I thought Montezuma would be a nice catching alternative.
---
So, SIP or grab that extra food resource in the CFC?
I've been wanting to read some of these, but alas, yatta, you are the victim of your own success because your threads have too many pages and posts for me to read in the internet cafe. Can't you start short threads that nobody likes which attract no interest? Just for me?
First: Good job, yatta77, on your last game with Augustus Caesar. Truly, Rome proved itself superior to all others.
Second: Not being able to declare war with Montezuma is like limiting Genghis Khan of the Mongol Horde to only four cities (wait a second...). The insane Monty shall be forced to employ his wits and charm this game to stay alive.
Third: Moving 1SE costs you one of your three hills, one of your forests, and you won't have enough happiness to use all of that food for a long time. If you really want to include all of the food in the capital's BFC, then I'd plan on building the Globe Theater there for a huge GP farm (or mass production through whipping). Even if you don't build the GT, though, Monty's UB will be of use there.
I might shadow this game and Augustus. Really want to move up to immortal, congrats on the success with your augustus game bdw!
Also a suggestion to the rules, i think the 6 cities needs to be changed, mabey allow REX? Its just you've used that rule for the past few games, and perhaps we should make it a little different. Monty's UB is great for expanding, and works really well with the pottery HR rule beline. I think not allowing monty to dow is bad enough, if he cant dow then he should be able to expand. However its your game, so its up to you,
I've been wanting to read some of these, but alas, yatta, you are the victim of your own success because your threads have too many pages and posts for me to read in the internet cafe. Can't you start short threads that nobody likes which attract no interest? Just for me?
Yep, obviously you didn't read them... The word "success" doesn't fit with 2 losses in 3 games.
Spoiler:
Please, stop blaming internet cafes and my long posts and threads: we all know what you are hunting for at the moment, which keeps you away from playing Civ IV and care about documenting yourself about it.
(Just Kidding, and silly Joking, as always. )
However, since you asked for... As you wish!
Chapter I (IIRC)
Hatshepsut targeting a peaceful space race victory.
Extreme scientist economy, Pyramids + Great Library + National Epic + Oxford synergy, nice setup of 5 GS farms, won (against Mansa) the alphabet, the liberalism, the computer (internet) and the fusion race without bulbs.
ChanceDanger and coanda were giving wise advise on using espionage, but I was too stubborn to listen.
So I lost the space race by 7 turns (the ship was flying toward Alpha Centuari) since Mansa won culturally.
However, ChanceDanger avenged me replaying from one of the last save, and won the game keeping the third cultural Mali city in continuous revolts with spies.
Chapter II (IIRC)
Genghis Khan targeting a peaceful cultural victory with a 3 cities / 1 worker too arrogant restriction.
Extreme artist economy, Pyramids + Parthenon + Sistine Chapel synergy.
Lost as soon as Shaka decided it was time to die.
Chapter III (IIRC)
Augustus Caesar targeting a conquest victory with never more than 6 cities (on a small map this time) and forced to be in war with at least one other AI all the time.
The capital, Rome, had Pyramids, Heroic Epic, West Point, a military academy and 9 settled great generals; and spent almost all the game training like 1 unit / turn: level 6, combat IV commando infantry units in the final war!
Won this one, thanks to Gumbolt (and someone else IIRC) advice to change enemy at the critically correct moment.
That's about it. All the rest is pretty much just about strategy comparisons, silliness and jokes.
If you need more details, next time I'll take a low cost flight to spend few days in Ireland I'll let you know (if/when you are going to move back to Ireland, I mean): I appreciate your country for tourism, and, even if I don't like drink beer, Dublin Irish pubs ambiance a lot!
But if ne-ne from the settler there is only 1 land tile, in that case to be able to settle up there I can't SIP now.
The food will be shared between 3-4 cities I guess... unless that way will cost population votes in the UN victory resolution.
Uhm... difficult to tell.
Also a suggestion to the rules, i think the 6 cities needs to be changed, mabey allow REX? Its just you've used that rule for the past few games, and perhaps we should make it a little different. Monty's UB is great for expanding, and works really well with the pottery HR rule beline. I think not allowing monty to dow is bad enough, if he cant dow then he should be able to expand. However its your game, so its up to you,
I understand your point. It is a fair observation.
But this series is about minimalism (= small, if optimized, might overtake huge): everything and every concept can be introduced and merged somehow, except Rexing, sorry. There are so many Rexing masters in this forum, that another (worstly* played) Rex game, won't add anything to what is already available I believe.
Besides, both me and my PC, have big "hardware" troubles with too many cities and too many units involved.
*(ok, this word doesn't exist: how to say "in a less efficient manner" with just 1 English word?)
That said, if you wish to shadow the Augustus game, and Rex, please do and post your results, screen shots, reports, and such in that other thread!
That would be so welcome to compare the two strategies!
(I'm already pretty sure rexing is more optimal, however we can value how much more remunerative it is!).
The same if you want to shadow this one. I just ask you to please do not tell in this forum about anything I don't know and/or didn't discover already, to don't ruin my fun playing: I'm a quite slow player, but as you can see it doesn't take me too long to finish a game; so posting your strategy and results at the end to compare would likely be the best!
btw gratz to the Rome, but it was obvious sooner then you actually finished and the last parts were just drag ;-).
Now to the Archipelago thingy
As you obviously know GLH and Colossus will be your friends for sure.
You will have problems with production, but the good thing is that AI's will have too and they are a bit worse with this issue then human player.
UN will be problematic... Un always is, but if you can't edge-out AI's with your pop size there is danger of some runaway freak going for diplomation as humans like to do.
Are you allowed to take vassals?
as for the start...too bad the 3rd hill is on wrong continent... I would probably still stay SIPed.
I would SIP and go for TGL. Another option would be to Oracle MC and build Colossus, but since we are not FIN I would rather go for TGL. And you don't want to miss it.. Maybe going for it with only one city (no-one will take your land)? Though we only get 10 hammers from the hills and we have just couple forest tiles.
After that maybe IW to clear that Jungle?
I understand your point. It is a fair observation.
But this series is about minimalism (= small, if optimized, might overtake huge): everything and every concept can be introduced and merged somehow, except Rexing, sorry. There are so many Rexing masters in this forum, that another (worstly* played) Rex game, won't add anything to what is already available I believe.
Besides, both me and my PC, have big "hardware" troubles with too many cities and too many units involved.
Thanks for explaining the reason for naming the series minimalism, i was wondering about that. And I suppose the hardware issue is a good reason. However that just means that the AI will get the land, so im not sure if it makes a difference.
*(ok, this word doesn't exist: how to say "in a less efficient manner" with just 1 English word?)
. And i understand that english is not your first language, (Hell its my first language but im sure i've have my fair share of spelling and grammer mistakes, on these fourms, but that's becuase i type fast. ).
That said, if you wish to shadow the Augustus game, and Rex, please do and post your results, screen shots, reports, and such in that other thread!
That would be so welcome to compare the two strategies!
(I'm already pretty sure rexing is more optimal, however we can value how much more remunerative it is!).
The same if you want to shadow this one. I just ask you to please do not tell in this forum about anything I don't know and/or didn't discover already, to don't ruin my fun playing: I'm a quite slow player, but as you can see it doesn't take me too long to finish a game; so posting your strategy and results at the end to compare would likely be the best!
I think i will do that so, and I will post in the correct thread. Im a fast player myself, (like TMIT speed, which is why I won't continue my PTG series, I don't have the patience), but it will take a few days before I'll post my shadow (spoilered of course), I've got some real life stuff to deal with first. And don't worry, I know how the spoiler stuff works i won't spoil or ruin anything.
I abbreviated a bit your comments, since they are right above.
TGL would be great, but requires so many techs: IIRC fishing, sailing, mining and masonry. I fear with my low production an AI might steal it.
UN will be problematic... Un always is, but if you can't edge-out AI's with your pop size there is danger of some runaway freak going for diplomation as humans like to do.
Thanks, but I got my word in my memory back: worse!
So my previous sentence would be: There are so many Rexing masters in this forum that another (played in a worse way) Rex game won't add anything to what is already available I believe. Is this correct English?
Well, we'll wait for your Augustus game shadow, and your Montezuma one next!
You should be able to get the GLH if you focus. It generally doesn't go very early.
Tech fishing-agri-mining-BW-sailing-masonry. Start a warrior until fishing comes in and then switch to a wb. Back to the warrior and then a worker. The problem with worker first is that he will run out of things to do while waiting for BW.
Gratz on the Roman game, BTW. I didn't post but I sure was lurking. Your threads are great!
Firstly I hope you are not blaming me for breaking your 100% loss record on this series. I guess it would be no fun if you won every game. Well done for the Roman win.
As for this game.
Are you allowing a Cheese Ap victory? Un would be more tougher.
Culture might be more interesting especially on this kind of map where cottages may not be in great supply.
But if ne-ne from the settler there is only 1 land tile, in that case to be able to settle up there I can't SIP now.
The food will be shared between 3-4 cities I guess... unless that way will cost population votes in the UN victory resolution.
Uhm... difficult to tell.
If there's only one land tile NE-NE from the settler, then I don't think you should worry about putting a city there given your self-imposed limit of six cities. Furthermore, I think it's too difficult to justify moving considering the lack of production available to you. Losing that off-continent grass/forest/hill is a big deal in the early game as well as settling on one of your few forests. If you make The Great Lighthouse a priority (which you should for AI denial), then you'll want the production to get it at a reasonable time.
I'm not proficient at water-heavy maps - absolutely hate them - but I'll provide a small turn log of what I think you should do:
Turn 0: SIP, research Fishing, build a Worker on the grass corn.
Turn 7: Fishing's finished. Stop building a Worker; build a Work Boat instead on one of the grass/forest/hills. Research Mining.
Turn 15: Mining's finished. Start researching Sailing.
Turn 17: Work Boat's finished. Improve one of the clams. Build another Work Boat and grow to 2 pop on the clams.
Turn 20: Capital's at 2 pop. Work both grass/forest/hills to finish the second Work Boat.
After Sailing, you should pick up Masonry > Bronze Working. Agriculture should be ignored as 4F2C from the clams is more important right now than the 5F corn. After the second Work Boat, finish the Worker, then go Lighthouse > The Great Lighthouse.
Grimith, a noob question: why do you suggest starting a worker at turn 0, then stopping production on the worker to start a work boat on turn 7? It's probably obvious, but I'm still learning the ropes, and this kind of micro is challenging for me to grok. Thanks!
Grimith, a noob question: why do you suggest starting a worker at turn 0, then stopping production on the worker to start a work boat on turn 7? It's probably obvious, but I'm still learning the ropes, and this kind of micro is challenging for me to grok. Thanks!
Well, it times with finishing the Fishing Tech. Start the worker, then build the workboat using the high hammer tile and then finish the worker with improved seafood tile. If the civ starts with fishing then I would build a workboat first.
In some cases you might start with say a warrior or barracks so that you grow while Fishing comes in, but that is only if the first worker would have nothing to do either because of the land or bad start techs. That is rare though. In this case, AG should finish around the time of the first worker. However, it still might not have much to do until mining>BW.
I actually might delay the worker with this start and just grow on a warrior/barracks and build two workboats. Worker could be whipped when BW comes in. Go Mining/BW first and then AG later.
Ah yes, that peacemongering diplomatic genius Montezuma. Let me just pull up a chair here...
SIP looks like the right choice here. Then you have the option of eventually sticking a second city 2E 3S and steal the clams and corn, plus share the hills to give some production to each city... or just leaving it all to the capital if you're seeing other good city sites to take instead.
I'm going to advise getting an exploratory workboat fairly early on - possibly the second workboat you make. You're going to want to figure out what other AIs are in your game and size up the diplomatic situation as early as possible. You might even get lucky and get the global-circumnavigation bonus with it.
One thing I often forget to do on water maps that's important is get a barb-galley defense. When you get Metal Casting, you'll probably want to build a trireme.
Grimith, a noob question: why do you suggest starting a worker at turn 0, then stopping production on the worker to start a work boat on turn 7? It's probably obvious, but I'm still learning the ropes, and this kind of micro is challenging for me to grok. Thanks!
The logic is that your priorities are #1: produce workboat, and #2: produce worker. But you need fishing to do #1, so might as well start by making progress to #2.
I haven't tried this opening, but I did a lot of elaborate tests on a similar opening a few weeks ago, and prebuild worker > work boat > worker beat every other opening I could think of. In particular, it outperformed worker > workboat, and warrior > work boat > worker.
I'm not saying it's always best, or even that it's best here, but it's definitely worth considering any time you want to work your seafood but don't start with fishing.
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science
?
And how they won't break off? 
