Immortal Minimalism, Chapter IV - Montezuma

[yatta77]

I sent a PM to a mod asking advice about a better subforum for this series.

Only for respect towards who is honestly interested in it, here the next session.
PDF document (in 5 pages/files since the 500kb limit) and save are attached.

As always: first attempt, no cheats, no reloads. And no give ups.
I'm not hearing fat ladies singing yet, and won't bury myself before death.

You can drop messages about it (except game-strategy orthodoxy whining) in my visitor board.

Cheers.

An annoyed yatta.

 

[Gumbolt]

It is a strategy series I don't see the issue.

It is a shame that the TGL went. Perhaps a GE was not the best option for you. Looks like you got some trade done with literature. Will look in more depth tomorrow.

 

[Killroyan]

I think you are taking the comment from Vranasm a bit too harsh. In this case obsessed was meant as a way to say it screwed over the initial expansion. But then again as you have pointed out this is a minimalism game and I am loving the way you think outside the box and stretch your borders. Gives us one more Yatta in this game and prove everybody wrong. If you do move however leave a note where we can find it, because you do have a lot of followers. Keep it coming Yatta.

Onto the game, but boy this is going to be hard. Any plans for the ivory/fish SE of you? You might be able to drop a city there, rush build Maoi and have a fairly good city after that. On the great library I hate it when you got everything planned nicely, bulb the wonder only to see that somebody else finishes it 1 turn before you. Really bad luck there.

 

[yatta77]

If you do move however leave a note where we can find it, because you do have a lot of followers. Keep it coming Yatta.

Promise!

---

I know myself: no matter how much I might try to self control, I know I might react as I did, dealing in future with 'hostile' game-strategy orthodoxy argues, fanatically proposed over and over again. I get irritated, that's my limit. Sorry.

And keep this series up must be something fun for me to do it.

So, since I read in the forum rules that it is allowed to link a personal non commercial blog or web-page in the signature, I'm thinking on continuing the series on some banner-free hosting service, as for people broadcasting videos about their games: who is interested about the series can just click on the link.

Once more I apologize with all the community for my reaction to vranasm post, as I already apologized to vranasm, as I apologize with Nina for aggressively replying to the good arguments in that post.

I'll still post and read, as always, on other game related discussions on the forum: I'll just keep the minimalistic series out of here. I believe it should make everybody happy, at least I hope.

Thanks once more to all those who somehow demonstrate interest in this game.

One final note: besides Nina and many other posters enthusiasm, which brought a very welcome positivity, and besides all the ones who spent their time in reading about the game and opening the saves to make evaluations and point out possible future paths, I really appreciated Noogai and huerfanista feedback.

Noogai friendly, without superiority, simply proved (besides being a better payer than I am) that the Great Lighthouse approach was worth it, explained its future plans, and asked, no matter knowing better than me, what my plans were. If there a thing I want to know now, is how its game ended up: since all the AI civilization are met, its shadow would be a definitely welcome post now.

huerfanista friendly pointed out that something I used to do in my games it's counter productive, making me know better about Civ IV now.

Who really knows better is hardly hostile: simply, and friendly, shows.

Cheers.

 

[jdros13]

Hope you keep this going in some form or another - while I'm sure you are correct that there are many other "better" players in the strategy forum, in most cases they are just regurgitating strategies that are known to work and making them even better. The refreshing thing about this series has been that you try things that aren't proven to work (and in many cases probably won't) but provide detail and reasoning for why you are choosing the paths you are taking and a way to attempt to achieve those goals.

Most people (myself included most of the time) would hit the reset button right now. Your games are interesting because you don't.

 

[CreeDakota]

yatta - I think your series is the most enjoyable since Mad's Roleplay games. I'll miss them.

I think it is reasonable for people to offer critic of your play on these forums as long as they stay constructive and reasonably polite. have fun!

 

[yatta77]

^^___
Thanks for all the kind last posts, I don't know what to say.
I feel a bit embarrassed on beginning something the big names do.
However, I promised already, so no-excuses, just give me a little bit more time.

 

[CuddlesKill]

Well, I'm not good enough to give advice, just lurk. But I'd far rather read about your attempt to be different than yet another game of the same old same old. It'd be a shame if you stopped now! I'm certain I'm learning more from this thus far disappointing game than I ever do reading about yet another pangaea conquest...

 

[ecuwins]

I'm certain I'm learning more from this thus far disappointing game than I ever do reading about yet another pangaea conquest...

Word, son!

 

[jdros13]

One thing that I thought of when reading through this by the way, is how you could have made up your tech deficiency really quickly if you had done something that would have been considered "wrong" and built the great wall as your first order of business, rather than the Pyramids. For a lot less hammers you would have generated a great spy, infiltrated Peter and then stolen all his technologies while you got your 6 cities up and running sooner / built WBs / etc.

Especially on a map like this where the barb threat will be virtually non-existent due to the small landmasses most players wouldn't even consider building the GW. It might have wound up being very valuable in this particular case though, especially since Peter dropped a city on your island meaning you wouldn't have even needed to build a galley.

If I thought I had any chance of competing at the Immortal level I might even try it myself

 

[Gumbolt]

One thing that I thought of when reading through this by the way, is how you could have made up your tech deficiency really quickly if you had done something that would have been considered "wrong" and built the great wall as your first order of business, rather than the Pyramids. For a lot less hammers you would have generated a great spy, infiltrated Peter and then stolen all his technologies while you got your 6 cities up and running sooner / built WBs / etc.

Especially on a map like this where the barb threat will be virtually non-existent due to the small landmasses most players wouldn't even consider building the GW. It might have wound up being very valuable in this particular case though, especially since Peter dropped a city on your island meaning you wouldn't have even needed to build a galley.

If I thought I had any chance of competing at the Immortal level I might even try it myself

I am not sure about building the great wall just to get a great spy. Firstly he was isolated with little chance of any barb spawn due to his small island.

Yes he may have stolen a few techs but the Russians are quite heavy on espionage side of things. He would of still needed alphabet. There is also the negative diplo side of things that would make diplomatic win harder. Further more you can only ever steal what an Ai already has. It provides little trade value unless you are building up gold knowing you are stealing techs.

So you steal COL knowing you want to tech philosophy with slider at 100%. Not sure how much merit this strategy carries.

Theres lots he could of done differently at the start but he is trying a minimal strategy.

 

[yatta77]

Hope you keep this going in some form or another

I'll miss them.

It'd be a shame if you stopped now!

Word, son!

Thanks, all! Appreciated!
And sorry, but sooner - or better - than this, wasn't possible (check my sig.).
I'll probably play a bit tomorrow.

On the great library I hate it when you got everything planned nicely, bulb the wonder only to see that somebody else finishes it 1 turn before you. Really bad luck there.

Ah... no big deal, the GE will help with the UN building.

Most people (myself included most of the time) would hit the reset button right now. Your games are interesting because you don't.

I think a normal speed game last fro 350 to 500 turns. Give up after about a 1/5 of it it's just something I personally wouldn't do. I don't blame others who do: it is just a matters of opinions I guess, so while defending mine I respect others.

If I thought I had any chance of competing at the Immortal level I might even try it myself

Ehm... If you wish to try, Do it!
The worst could happen would be losing a silly game!

For a lot less hammers you would have generated a great spy

I am not sure about building the great wall just to get a great spy.

Espionage economy! This is likely for another game, in future...

 

[shyuhe]

I don't remember the math exactly, but I think your city needs to be around size 20 to insta-build the UN using a GE.

 

[yatta77]

I don't remember the math exactly, but I think your city needs to be around size 20 to insta-build the UN using a GE.

This is why I said "will help"
The math at standard speed IIRC should be 500 + 20xPop.
But I might be wrong on those numbers.

 

[NihilZero]

Yep, obviously you didn't read them... The word "success" doesn't fit with 2 losses in 3 games.

Thanks for the excellent synopses, sounds like a lot of fun! Good luck with this one (and no, I won´t be reading it for the time being - the beach beckons!)

 

[yatta77]

Thanks for the excellent synopses, sounds like a lot of fun! Good luck with this one (and no, I won´t be reading it for the time being - the beach beckons!)

Ah ah... thanks for the good luck!
With all this pessimism around seems like I'll really need it!
There is always something to learn from NihilZero posts: this time was synopses and beckons.


---

I uploaded the session 7 (link in my signature).

I like this solution I chose since it makes easier to check out the previous sessions and is a lot less time consuming to update (and it should be ok with the forum rules, I guess).

However, the discussion can reasonably still continue in this thread as well I believe: I got some good advice from friendly users about not feeling the task and responsibility to answer every single post: so I guess I'll just skip in future what has already been answered, to make things a little easier, relaxed and enjoyable for myself.

Let's try to bring back and keep this series cheerful and fun as it is supposed to be!

So... back on topic!

No matter the pessimism around, the Aztecs kind of catch up in tech in just 3 turns discovering the code of laws (yep, really short session, since I wish to take a bit of time to think about which tech-trade deals complete).

Only another civilization has already discovered philosophy. So, even if for the liberalism race it might be a little late (but the Aztecs still don't give up! ), for the mass media race everything still have to be decided.

Diplomacy goes pretty well, with 5 pleased and 3 cautious leaders.

I still quite confident in being able to fight for my target till the end, then if with a positive result or not, well, this we will see!

I'll play some more soon.

Cheers all!

 

[Zechnophobe]

maybe it would be a good idea to start city-gifting? If you can't actually grow, might as well get on the good side of some people by building bad cities and giving them away? It is a thought at least. Your MFG is very low, so not sure what you will have the hammers for. Hmm.

Code of Laws will be your test! You need to get everything you can from it, or you are DOOMED .

I am wondering if racing to education might be the play. Even if Pacal beats you to lib, Edu can be double bulbed, and then traded for a massive benefit.

Hmm, another random though, City gifting might be a good way to generate votes for you in another sense: It gives growable cities to AI's that you can make vote for you.

 

[yatta77]

Code of Laws will be your test! You need to get everything you can from it, or you are DOOMED .

Uhm... I believe that tech wise things are pretty simple now.
The path is obvious: philosophy for pacifism (I'll get a religion soon or later? maybe it won't be too bad diplomatically?), civil service for bureaucracy (hammers in capital), education for oxford (will I use the GE?), liberalism. Still have to decide in which order.
I'd like to fill up to optics with trade, to take astronomy, but I would be happy enough winning the race and taking whatever to deny the AIs.
However, the AIs will spend turns in feudalism, guilds, drama, divine right, and such I don't need.
About the city gift idea: thanks for the input!
But the capital needs national epic, and few arches are really needed now. And 6 cities are needed as well for universities (possibly able to share a couple of hill with each-other): so, I like the idea of gaining some diplomatic bonus, but for now I see gift cities as something hardly doable, sorry. And of course, I might be wrong.
IMO a lot depends now if FisherHill will be founded: I'm few turns away from it and I'm rushing that settler, but if the Russian city expand up to that spot, that would be kind of bothering.
We'll see.

 

[yatta77]

Just in case someone still wonder about it...

If you ask me, not a badly played game so far.
Just my silly opinion.

Save attached. Further details in the link in my signature.

Cheers.

 

[shyuhe]

If you don't get to mass media first to rush the UN, you're going to lose the game. I don't see where you're going to get your long term commerce with your empire.

Given that you can't even research paper yet, it's pretty unlikely to win the liberalism race at this point. The two civs with philosophy already have paper so they're both likely going for liberalism.

You won't get a straight philosophy -- civil service trade at this level. You'll need to invest a few beakers in CS first. Paper is cheaper so philosophy -- paper is a doable trade (KK should help here).

Also, you might as well put clam hill 1E of its maker so that it can share some food tiles with Tenochtitlan while growing.