In which we discuss Madurismo

Because I am fighting the fight in the US. My friends just went to a BRV function at the Consulate. They appreciate the work N. American revolutionaries are doing to change the US. They sponsor our publications via Citgo and they come to our events.

Why is this about me again?

(Except that I like the attention..)
 
Actually, the comments are mostly about your lazy attempt at reading. What it does seem to be about is you commenting without actually doing that: reading. Your previous 'oh please' comment didn't even bother to actually respond to anything said.
 
Actually, the comments are mostly about your lazy attempt at reading. What it does seem to be about is you commenting without actually doing that: reading. Your previous 'oh please' comment didn't even bother to actually respond to anything said.

Again, sources? I was challenging your assertation of the "criticized" election results.

"Criticized" by interested parties who lost versus endorsed by disinterested international observers.

Okay... that's decree.

But it was a mobilization of he BRV masses that brought and keep the PSUV in power since its 2006 inception.
 
Your only source is the unbiased ruling party. Interesting.

It's also interesting that you are 'fighting' and that youa re trying to win the thread™.
 
Venezuela is destroyed. Its heading towards blood.

That's all I have to say about this. Those supportive of Maduro in this thread are supporting a Mugabe like figure who is bent on making Venezuela a colony of Cuba.

I wish this was hyperbole. :(

This post makes literally no sense. It belongs in the comment section of a WSJ hitpiece. People are crying about RT in this thread, but this post is the worst thing I've seen so far. Try taking notes from Takhisis.

Venezuela's structural problems are an artifact of its reliance on (oil) commodity price booms. Diversification was never a priority under the oligarchs and capitalists who ruled the pooch for a hundred + years before Chavez, nor was equitable growth, sustainable development, or any sense of political justice. Their little temper tantrum that led to the 2002 coup destroys much of their legitimacy, in my eyes, and they did a great job enabling the worst personal characteristics of Chavez (paranoia and hunger for power). That democracy did not entirely crumble and was strengthened under Chavez is an impressive feat.

From everything I've read coming from Venezuela's business community, there is no reckoning with this past and their sloganeering is just as disgusting and vapid as the worst thing you'll hear from Maduro. They are still a parasitic and entitled ruling class in waiting, making their millions off financial speculation. But I, and the Venezueluan people, are supposed to believe they will be an engine for miracle entrepreneurial growth. Or that they won't use the military at the first sign of resistance, as they did 11 years ago.

Cuba is much more reliant on Venezuela than vice versa, and Venezuela's close relationship to Cuba is more an artifact of diplomatic isolation following the 2002 coup than them just being ideological butt buddies. Since Lula's election, Venezuela has been much chummer with Brazil and they definitely are not in on the Bolivarian revolution.

Mugabe as a comparison makes zero sense and you make zero attempt to link the two. Mugabe's most famous policy is his seizure of land from whitey, but the system of land tenure in Latin America isn't even structured in a way that would make that viable? Llike, land is concentrated in large amounts in the hands of rich landlords and large corporations, though I don't know how this works in Venezuela specifically. I'm just going to assume the Mugabe thing is a dog whistle.

For you anti-PDSV guys, I want to know what you think about class and Venezuela. Do you think PDSV created class conflict or just evolved because of it?
 
>Do you think PDSV created class conflict or just evolved because of it?

They thrive on it and so try to heighten it with their constant speeches about enemies that don't always exist or aren't always such. They also mix it in with this pseudo-religion of following Comrade Hugo's spirit and the current ruling cadre (which is a closed, exclusive oligarchy just like their rivals) are doing this as a mission from God/the Leader. That's their messianic nature: they are the saviours of the world, so logically anyone standing in their way is morally, intrinsecally evil.
 
On the economic front, even though Maduro wants to have inflation to be counted as negative because he has seized private property and ordered it sold at half-price, inflation in general is averaging around 45%, and the rise in food and drink prices, up until October, was over 70% since the beginning of the year. On the other end of the spectrum, fuel prices are still clamped down by the state-owned monopoly.

The exchange rate… well, the official one is of ~6,30 bolívares per U.S. dollar, the real one is of +60 bolívares to a dollar. The official rate is expected to go up to 10, probably 12-to-1 very soon. :(

Also, Standard & Poor's have downgraded Venezuela's credit rating from B to B-.
Their own central bank has stated that their foreign currency reserves are down by 20%.
 
@tak: not trying to "win" anything here. But at least you are posting sourced articles, and in spite of me disagreeing with your position, you are entitled to it.

Just because you disagree does not mean I am wrong. CFC is hardly a representative demographic.
 
Your only source is Venezuelanalysis, a site whose founder and editor is the husband of Venezuela's Consul in New York. And you have the gall to come here and say that even before you've read things everyone else is wrong. Can you even grasp the concept of people thinkign differently from you?

>Just because you disagree does not mean I am wrong.

You were the one who stormed into this thread telling everyone how wrong they were and how they'd better take sides because yours will 'win'.
 
Interestingly, I'm rereading news that Maduro fined Xinhua almost half a million U.S. dollars about a month ago for not complying with labour laws (you're supposed to pay decent wages, not overwork your employees, etc.) and the Chinese fired all their Venezuelan staff in return.
 
Well, Maduro is going on about 'Nazi-fascism' being the cause of all problems, and holds military parades with thousands of goose-steppers in full uniform; meanwhile, a few (three?) people have died when thugs on motorbikes attacked demonstrators:
Spoiler :
A Venezuelan Spring? Three killed as armed vigilantes on motorcycles attack anti-government protesters
At least three people have been shot dead in Caracas after a peaceful protest produced violent clashes between pro- and anti-government activists. Two died when armed men on motorcycles began firing into a crowd of opposition demonstrators, who had gathered to protest the policies of the country’s socialist President, Nicolas Maduro. A third man was killed later as the violence spread through the city.


The deaths followed two weeks of increasingly heated protests across Venezuela, the most widespread unrest since Mr Maduro’s controversial election victory last year. Officials said afterwards that some 25 people had been injured in the clashes on Wednesday, more than 30 arrested, at least five police cars burned and some government offices vandalised. The protesters reportedly threw stones at the security forces and burned tyres in the streets.

Around 10,000 people attended the opposition rally in central Caracas, which began calmly as the crowd marched to the federal prosecutor’s office to call for the release of 13 fellow activists detained during similar protests in recent days.

Mr Maduro, a 51-year-old former bus driver, succeeded his political mentor, Hugo Chavez, following Mr Chavez’s death in March 2013. Opposition critics say his administration has presided over and exacerbated the country’s problems with corruption, crime and cost of living: Venezuela has the highest inflation rate in the region and one of the highest murder rates in the world. Leopoldo Lopez, leader of the opposition party Popular Will, told the crowd, “All of these problems – shortages, inflation, insecurity, the lack of opportunities – have a single culprit: the government.”

As the rally concluded and the crowd began to disperse, some protesters clashed with police, at which point the men on motorcycles – thought to be pro-government vigilantes – appeared and opened fire. The crowd scattered, but one anti-government protester, later identified as 24-year-old student Bassil da Costa, was shot in the head and died.

A pro-government activist, Juan “Juancho” Montoya, was also shot in the melée. The president of Venezuela’s National Assembly, Diosdado Cabello, announced afterwards that Mr Montoya had been “vilely assassinated by the fascists”. It remains unclear if he and Mr Da Costa were shot by the motorcyclists or by other gunmen. As dusk fell, the violence spread east towards the wealthy Chacao district, where a third protester was shot dead.

In a televised address, a defiant Mr Maduro blamed the unrest on a “neo-fascist upsurge”. The opposition protesters, he said, “want to topple the government through violence. They have no ethics, no morals... We will not permit any more attacks.”

On Thursday, authorities issued a warrant for Mr Lopez, for charges including instigating crime and terrorism. Lopez, ex-mayor of Chacao, said he was simply a scapegoat and that government supporters had posed as student protesters in order to instigate the violence and then blame it on the opposition. Lopez told Reuters: “I’m innocent. I have a clear conscience because we called for peace.”

Lopez and other opposition politicians insisted the protests would continue in spite of the bloodshed. Henrique Capriles, who ran against Mr Maduro in 2012’s presidential race, tweeted, “We condemn violence! We know the vast majority rejects and condemns it.”

Antonio Ledezma, the mayor of Caracas, said, “Just as we condemn the violent incidents, we say to all Venezuelan families that we have to remain ready to continue fighting, calmly but with determination. You have to know, Mr Maduro, that whatever you do, what started today will not stop until change is achieved in peace and with democracy for all Venezuelans.”

The protests have been largely populated by students, who have also staged mass demonstrations in the western cities of San Cristobal and Merida, where at least three people were injured by gunfire during protests on Wednesday, according to the AP.

Venezuela had an inflation rate of 56.2 per cent last year, and thanks to strict foreign exchange controls its citizens have recently faced shortages of medicine, spare parts, food, milk and toilet paper.

While the opposition blames Mr Maduro, the President has blamed unnamed “saboteurs” and “profit-hungry corrupt businessmen”.

Student-led demonstrations, a demented level of inflation that tops even Argentina's, rising crime, scarcity of basic human necessities, people on both sides dying with no visible culprits except someone on 'the other side', who knows how wrong this can go? What's worse, this has a chance of spreading, especially if Venezuela stops subsidising other regimes in the area…

At least the insanely low oil prices might finally be 'released'… :cringe:

EDIT: the military's being sent in, which is never a good sign and is even worse if they are conditioned to be personal retainers of the head honcho and his clique instead of servants of the civil power.
 
There's still ongoing violence in Venezuela right now, another student reported dead in El Trigal, Valencia.

Here are some pics of the protests:

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Things are turning ugly. There are reports of problems accessing twitter within the country.
 
Things are getting really nasty.

Government sponsored motorcycle-gangs are attacking protesters and civilians alike everywhere in the country.


Link to video.


Also my family confirms that twitter, facebook and other social media sites are now inaccessible.
 
At least the insanely low oil prices might finally be 'released'… :cringe:

It might seem ridiculous to all of us in the rest of the world, but oil being cheaper than water is deemed in Venezuela at the same level as a human-right. :lol:

Chavez tried to raise oil prices once while I was living in the country and I remember the entire country shutting down in protest for a whole weekend until Chavez decided against raising them. And that was before the mass political unrest.
 
The brass knuckles photos might be that the cop just took them away from the perp. Otherwise why would he be inspecting them? Why would a cop in full riot gear and a baton even need them in the first place?

Government sponsored motorcycle-gangs are attacking protesters everywhere in the country.
Do you have a source they are "sponsored" by the government? The people in the video you posted appear to be motorcycle cops in uniform, not "gangs".
 
If a cop has taken away a weapon from a 'perp', then he's not going to put it on, don't you think? Nice way to dodge the issue, Forma.

If it's policemen on motorcycles attacking the crowds, is that not 'government sponsored'?
 
Let's Watch Venezuela Destroy Itself
By Raul Gallegos 2014-02-14T14:21:52Z

Venezuela, a country blessed by vast oil reserves, seems to have an uncanny knack for killing businesses.

At least three airlines have grounded flights to and from Venezuela so far this year, in part because the nation's government owed the carriers $3.3 billion in foreign exchange they need to pay operating costs. The government suggested it could pay them with government bonds and cheap fuel, but precious little cash. This should do wonders for getting planes flying again.

Carmakers are also in trouble. Toyota Motor Corp. is halting production in Venezuela, while Ford Motor Co. is reducing output. A mere 722 vehicles were sold in a country of almost 29 million people last month. Trade group Cavenez reckons this amounts to an 87 percent drop in sales in one year.

Ford’s chief financial officer, Robert Shanks, understated the problem when he told Bloomberg last week that “price controls and a very limited and uneven supply of foreign currency to support production, have affected output adversely.” So adversely that Chrysler, Ford and General Motors produced no vehicles in Venezuela last month.

Business isn't much better for newspapers. In the last six months 12 papers have shut and more than a dozen might cease publication if the government doesn’t sell the newspapers enough foreign exchange to pay for imported paper. Things are so bad that newspaper VEA, a government mouthpiece, may soon go out of print. The hashtag #SinPapelNoHayPeriodico (WithoutPaperThereAreNoNewspapers) has become a rallying cry on Twitter among Venezuelans. It was telling that on Tuesday, hundreds of unionized newspaper workers -- including government supporters -- took to the streets to demand paper imports while chanting: “Say the truth, the country is broke.”

The next day, as many as 50,000 demonstrators marched in Caracas, angry at living in a country rich in natural resources where product shortages are the norm. Three people were killed during the protests.

The protesters have a point. The central bank’s foreign exchange reserves fell to a 10-year low last month. And Venezuelans eager to safeguard their money from annual inflation of 56 percent are evading capital controls to transfer as many dollars as they can overseas. President Nicolas Maduro likes to think of this as “an economic war,” but for people who earn a pay check locally, capital flight is basic common sense.

Maduro hit the panic button last month when he eliminated Cadivi, the foreign-currency administration office. But this only increased demand for dollars. A greenback in the black market now goes for 84.2 bolivars, or 13 times the official rate.

The main problem is corruption and mismanagement of the nation's oil revenue. Rafael Ramirez, Venezuela’s energy czar and vice president for the economy, got to the heart of the foreign exchange dilemma in a recent televised interview: “What was happening was that we saw how many dollars we had, but their utilization had no planning.” Ramirez said, “at least 30 percent of the dollars disbursed” by the government “were diverted from their original purpose.”

Ramirez’s comments caused so much turmoil that El Nacional newspaper columnist Alberto Barrera Tyszka rightly described them in his Sunday column as “probably the most shameless confession the government has made in recent times.”

The government’s rhetoric suggests that no one in the Maduro administration understands the difference between creating value and destroying it. At best, Venezuela's leftist leaders and backers simply say the government needs to be more efficient. Jordan Rodriguez, a reporter for the leftist television station TeleSUR, supported Maduro’s vow to nationalize more companies in a Monday column in the Correo del Orinoco newspaper: “Let’s do so, but taking into consideration that the only valid argument will be to be efficient.” After 15 years in power it should be clear that efficiency isn't in this government’s DNA.

Venezuela’s government has tried and been unable to replicate what companies do for the economy. Venirauto, Venezuela’s joint venture with Iran to make cars, assembled no more than 3,595 vehicles in 2012, or less than 10 cars a day. That was a 14 percent drop from 2011, according to the latest data.

The natural response by Venezuela’s government to the failure of state planning is to demand more from private- sector pockets. When Polar, the country’s largest food producer, said last month that production could suffer if the government fails to sell the company the $463 million in foreign exchange it needs to pay its overseas raw material suppliers, the state-owned AVN news agency suggested that Polar’s owner, Lorenzo Mendoza, personally assume his company’s debts. Mendoza “controls a personal fortune that amounts to $4 billion, according to Forbes,” the AVN article said.

When economic troubles mount, Venezuela’s government holds summits to discuss problems that are never really addressed. Last week’s “Maximum Socialist Efficiency” seminar for 120 state-owned enterprises, is one example. Ramirez, who gave the opening address, said on a Twitter post: “We must concentrate the productive forces of the State,” to achieve “the sustainable growth of the country.”

With the highest inflation on earth, rampant violence, declining oil output and a hobbled private sector, Venezuela seems instead to be on a sustainable path to economic ruin.

(Raul Gallegos is the Latin American correspondent for the World View blog. Follow him on Twitter @raulgallegos.)

To contact the author of this article: Raul Gallegos at rgallegos5@bloomberg.net.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-13/let-s-watch-venezuela-destroy-itself.html
 
Do you have a source they are "sponsored" by the government? The people in the video you posted appear to be motorcycle cops in uniform, not "gangs".

The Tupamaros began as a pro-Chavista gang group years back and since the beginning of political unrest have greatly expanded their involvement by harassing protestors. The Tupamaros may or may not be acting under government orders and it is admittedly sketchy if the government is actively sponsoring them with funds or arms. If for the sake of arguing we concede that the government may not be actively sponsoring them, what is still apparent however, is that the government grants them legitimacy by turning a blind eye to the numerous and countless broken laws they have committed. These guys engage in extortion, kidnapping, beatings, involvement in drug trade, thefts and murders on a nation-wide scale. They were also the group heavily involved in preventing people from accessing voting booths in the recent two elections, which again, the government didn't do anything to prevent.

I don't know if this is an apt comparison due to my lack of knowledge of modern Chinese history, but I would compare the Tupamaros to the Red Guards in the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

I have first hand experience with these people. They threatened to kidnap my cousins and were already stalking them on their commute to school. They flat out told my aunt+uncle that they will kidnap them unless they allow the government nationalize the family business. It was a last-straw for them and they fled to Switzerland. This was almost 4 years ago.

If you want a source here is reuters and al-jaazera.
 
If a cop has taken away a weapon from a 'perp', then he's not going to put it on, don't you think? Nice way to dodge the issue, Forma.

Ehhhh. It's far more likely that if he was using them, they'd be properly seated on his fingers instead of casually worn on the tips. Maybe they do belong to the cop but considering that wearing brass knuckles would inhibit the ability to use a shield, gun, club or anything else, I'd highly doubt it.
 
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