Incentives under communism?

[NinjaCow64]

I think for me it's because capitalism can manifest in a variety of ways - there are examples of it back into the Middle Ages, when we were mostly still getting conquered vs. doing the conquering (so much. Crusades and the general inbreeding of most of Europe's monarchies makes this a Very Complicated Topic that I haven't done reading on in a long while). Capitalism definitely propagates through imperialism, but it's capable of doing so in different ways as well.

Fair. I would say that imperialism is intrinsic to currently existing capitalism, though.

 

[Ajidica]

Yeah that’s what you’re saying at the end of the day Zardnaar, you would be safe under Hitler because you’d be a good little collaborator and wouldn’t rock the boat when Hitler sent your neighbours to the camps.

Disgusting.

Let's be honest, if the Red Guard or Cheka came for your neighbor you (or indeed any of us on this forum) would stand aside, look the other way, and tell yourselves its sad but not my problem, there is nothing I can do anyhow.

Fair. I would say that imperialism is intrinsic to currently existing capitalism, though.

Is it not also intrinsic to, say, Soviet Communism or Chinese Communism? The Chinese aren't investing billions in the Belt and Road Initiative because they really like trains.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think for me it's because capitalism can manifest in a variety of ways - there are examples of it back into the Middle Ages, when we were mostly still getting conquered vs. doing the conquering (so much. Crusades and the general inbreeding of most of Europe's monarchies makes this a Very Complicated Topic that I haven't done reading on in a long while). Capitalism definitely propagates through imperialism, but it's capable of doing so in different ways as well.


Of course you are, you nice little informant

(you're the one who came out with the bizarre nonsense of being apolitical in a genocidal police state, not me)

I think for me it's because capitalism can manifest in a variety of ways - there are examples of it back into the Middle Ages, when we were mostly still getting conquered vs. doing the conquering (so much. Crusades and the general inbreeding of most of Europe's monarchies makes this a Very Complicated Topic that I haven't done reading on in a long while). Capitalism definitely propagates through imperialism, but it's capable of doing so in different ways as well.


Of course you are, you nice little informant

(you're the one who came out with the bizarre nonsense of being apolitical in a genocidal police state, not me)

I think for me it's because capitalism can manifest in a variety of ways - there are examples of it back into the Middle Ages, when we were mostly still getting conquered vs. doing the conquering (so much. Crusades and the general inbreeding of most of Europe's monarchies makes this a Very Complicated Topic that I haven't done reading on in a long while). Capitalism definitely propagates through imperialism, but it's capable of doing so in different ways as well.


Of course you are, you nice little informant

(you're the one who came out with the bizarre nonsense of being apolitical in a genocidal police state, not me)

My other point how do you plan on eating after the revolution. I'm talking in practical terns not some wishy washy hypothetical.

What makes me laugh is all 4 of our communist sympathizers are reliant on the "fascist sympathizer " (well the younger version of him) to basically eat.

None of you have indicated yet you're willing to do that work or have the slightest clue as to what's involved. None of you have indicated what you want to do after the revolution.

Young Zards willing to feed you lot for the right incentive. Do I get shares in the farm, who runs the farm, the farmer presumably won't because you've seized ther land. Does the farmer get a double share of the farm since they have to run it wike young Zard and Co work it? Young Zard doesn't know how to rotate the crops, manage the land, finance it, source inputs it etc.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Let's be honest, if the Red Guard or Cheka came for your neighbor you (or indeed any of us on this forum) would stand aside, look the other way, and tell yourselves its sad but not my problem, there is nothing I can do anyhow.

skill issue. I would hide my neighbours in my basement.

 

[Ajidica]

skill issue. I would hide my neighbours in my basement.

I think we can all guess what the word I had to censor was.

 

[NinjaCow64]

You know I didn’t think this morning I would get two people saying “If I lived in Nazi Germany I totes would have been a collaborator guys”.

Whatever happened to shame?

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah that’s what you’re saying at the end of the day Zardnaar, you would be safe under Hitler because you’d be a good little collaborator and wouldn’t rock the boat when Hitler sent your neighbours to the camps.

Disgusting.

Strawman one can be apolitical keep head down mouth shut. I don't see you volunteering to feed yourself to the Gestapo, NKVD, Cheka etc.

Best case scenario I get drafted into the army and surrender to tge western allies or dodge the war as an agricultural worker in small town Germany.

 

[Ajidica]

You know I didn’t think this morning I would get two people saying “If I lived in Nazi Germany I totes would have been a collaborator guys”.

Whatever happened to shame?

I'm not proud of it; just like how if I live in Soviet Russia or Communist China I'd turn my head and tell myself it isn't my problem.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Settle down guys; please try to stay on the topic and not get side tracked with personal attacks. Thanks.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Strawman one can be apolitical keep head down mouth shut.

This is what we call collaboration.

I'm not proud of it; just like how if I live in Soviet Russia or Communist China I'd turn my head and tell myself it isn't my problem.

skill. issue.

 

[Zardnaar]

None of our resident communists have cone up with an answer on how they plan on eating.
The resident Nazi collaborator and fascist sympathizer apparently the only one here willing to feed them. They seem incapable of feeding themselves.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is what we call collaboration.

skill. issue.

And I bet you would keep your head down in North Korea or any other totalitarian state. Or you're dead/enslaved.

Worked out how to feed yourself yet after the revolution?

 

[Ajidica]

skill. issue.

Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

 

[Ajidica]

And I bet you would keep your head down in North Korea or any other totalitarian state.

Nah, he'd be simping for Great Comrade Xi telling us the Uighurs totally had it coming; or how the sun literally shines out of the butthole of Kim the Fat so when he bends over it looks like he opened the fridge door.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Ahem....

 

[Zardnaar]

Nah, he'd be simping for Great Comrade Xi telling us the Uighurs totally had it coming; or how the sun literally shines out of the butthole of Kim the Fat so when he bends over it looks like he opened the fridge door.

Lol no one seems capable of answering my how you plan on eating part. Relevant to the whole point of the thread.

I'm the only one here who has worked on a farm or can tend my own garden it seems.

CFC anyone else done farm work/worked on orchard? You hoo anyone at all?

 

[Gorbles]

What makes me laugh is all 4 of our communist sympathizers are reliant on the "fascist sympathizer " (well the younger version of him) to basically eat.

Not in the slightest

None of you have indicated yet you're willing to do that work

I have repeatedly, but again, you don't know me so I don't expect the fourth time of my telling you to take.

or have the slightest clue as to what's involved

That's what training's for!

You know, the actual constructive thing folks do to help others learn, instead of saying "you'll starve without me lol" on an Internet forum

It all comes back to imagination. Let me try and start us off constructively. Think of a game show where you get multiple choice questions. The answers range from absurd to very plausible.

That's what you need to do. Instead of relying on the absurd (you've covered that), imagine the plausible. Think of all the many ways people can improve themselves, or be helped by others, as society evolves. If you can't, consider maybe that you shouldn't be trying to gotcha others in the first place.

 

[Crezth]

Lol no one seems capable of answering my how you plan on eating part. Relevant to the whole point of the thread.
I'm the only one here who has worked on a farm or can tend my own garden it seems.

CFC anyone else done farm work/worked on orchard? You hoo anyone at all?

In regards to your earlier statements about Hitler would you rather Hitler ruled New Zealand or Stalin?

 

[Sarin]

Maybe not exclusive but its bloody intrinsic to capitalism.

The incredible profits made by capitalism would not be possible without exploiting the third world. The richest man in the world made his money off of bloody South African emerald mines for Pete’s sake!

I disagree. There are capitalistic countries doing well without it.

The problem is that you only argue against almost unrestricted capitalism, where governments are merely extensions of corporations. But that's not the only way it can exist. Capitalism can and should exist as a checked and balanced force in politically plural system. Socialism and communism are ideologies that do not have any provision for such pluralism, for coexisting with competing ideologies. From the scratch, from Das Kapital and Communist manifesto, they're authoriarian.

Yeah that’s what you’re saying at the end of the day Zardnaar, you would be safe under Hitler because you’d be a good little collaborator and wouldn’t rock the boat when Hitler sent your neighbours to the camps.

Disgusting.

I wonder if you've ever contemplated the implications of preferring under Pol Pot the same way you consider preferring living under Hitler.

Because I invite you to check what life in Cambodia really was in those days. Effectively, there were only three kinds of people: slavemasters, slaves and soon-to-be-dead undesirables. Slavemasters were all who actively participated in his rule, from the militias and army to the government officials. Slaves were the passive workers, who lived-no, survived-in the conditions absolutely inhumane. Working nine days out of ten, on rations barely capable of sustaining them, while any failure to meet the demands or doing anything that was seen by the slavemasters as sign of disagreement could be met with execution.
Under Hitler, unless you were a Jew, you had better chance of surviving than Cambodian slave. And if you kept your head down and not attract the attention of Gestapo, you could have much less unpleasant life than such slave. The conclusion is that anyone choosing Pol Pot over Hitler is either Jew taking a certain short and incredibly harsh life over about 66% chance of death in concentration camp, or someone who would willingly be a slavemaster and participate in the daily atrocities of Pol Pot's regime.

 

[Farm Boy]

Lol no one seems capable of answering my how you plan on eating part. Relevant to the whole point of the thread.

I'm the only one here who has worked on a farm or can tend my own garden it seems.

CFC anyone else done farm work/worked on orchard? You hoo anyone at all?