Inevitable gun control argument thread....

[.Shane.]

OK, so some student (probably, who knows, but why wait for facts) went nuts and shot and killed 20+ people and injured scores more at a University in VA.

So, let's start gun control argument number 25 that will not solve anything but result in some people getting warnings from mods and any civil debate or logical points being ignored in favor of hyperbole and ad hominem.

Let me start...

OMG WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY ALL GUNS.

And the appropriate reply:

WTH SHANE YOU IDIOT WE NEED TO ARM EVERYONE EVEN FETUSES.

and... go

source...

 

[Fetus4188]

Why are we arming me?

 

[skadistic]

Gun control killed these people. There should have only been 2 dead the first victim and the shooter that killed them.

 

[.Shane.]

Gun control killed these people. There should have only been 2 dead the first victim and the shooter that killed them.

YES! Here we go!

TOBY KEITH WOULD BE PROUD!

 

[TheBladeRoden]

Who's looking forward to Hot Fuzz?

 

[IglooDame]

Interesting quote here:

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill [that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus] was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Bolding by me.

 

[-0blivion-]

Gun control killed these people. There should have only been 2 dead the first victim and the shooter that killed them.

Who says everyone would want to carry a gun if gun control was loosened?

 

[Speedo]

OMG GUNZ ARE TEH EVIL!!!11!1!

vs

OMG I WANT GUNS!!! LOL!1!!11!

Thread complete - move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Yarr cue sideline cheap shot argument from http://catb.org/~esr/guns/reductio.html

If you disagree with everything I have said on this site and are gung-ho for gun control, I suggest you live up to your convictions by posting a big sign on your front lawn that reads:

THIS HOME IS A GUN-FREE ZONE

I wish you joy of all the delightful visitors you will attract.

 

[.Shane.]

Interesting quote here:

Now, to be a little more serious...

The problem with this your argument is it makes assumptions that you have know way of knowing (and hence why I always prefer to let the news play out first)
*that there'd be armed students in the vicinity of the shooter
*that there were not already armed campus police available
*that the shooter was in a position to be stopped easily (given the accounts of all the cops running around it doesn't sound like he was)

So, IMO, there's not a credible argument that such a law would've changed anything.

To play devil's advocate I guess the one argument you could make is that idea that if this were legal... would it have deterred the shooter. To which I can only reply that an act like this is pretty pre-meditated, so I'd wager that the shooter would take such concerns into account. Who knows, maybe he already did?

The big (and sad) joke in this is that people will make all these blusterful arguments w/out even knowing WTH really happened yet. For all we know 2 of the victims did try to defend themselves with guns OR NOT. No idea because the smoke from the crime scene hasn't yet cleared.

But, no point in letting that stop us from making asses out of ourselves.

 

[skadistic]

Who says everyone would want to carry a gun if gun control was loosened?

Thats not the point. The point is they don't have the choise to defend them selve with equal arms if they wanted to. Apperently these laws only keep the the honest people from carrying guns to schools. As we see over and over the killers are not gonna be stoped because they aren't allowed. All it would have taken was one armed good citizen in the first 5 minutes to stop the carnage.

 

[IglooDame]

Who says everyone would want to carry a gun if gun control was loosened?

One out of every fifty or so Virginians already want to carry a gun, and it wouldn't have taken "everyone" to potentially halt this mass-murder, just one or two armed citizens.

 

[-0blivion-]

Interesting quote

Thats not the point. The point is they don't have the choise to defend them selve with equal arms if they wanted to. Apperently these laws only keep the the honest people from carrying guns to schools. As we see over and over the killers are not gonna be stoped because they aren't allowed. All it would have taken was one armed good citizen in the first 5 minutes to stop the carnage.

Claiming that looser gun control laws would have prevented this disaster is just as farcical as claiming that stronger gun control laws would have prevented it.

Edit: Psychos always find a way

 

[JollyRoger]

If the campus was a gun-totin zone, I wonder how often accidental or alcohol-induced shootings would occur.

 

[De Lorimier]

This is a discussion that cannot lead to agreeance from parties on the opposite end of the question. I'll just say this: giving people the right to carry guns in public spaces is not a solution to the problem of school shootings. The very idea that more guns = more security is exactly what I was referring to when I mentionned the culture that's behind the problem to begin with. I can understand a fascination over a stamp collection, over a weapon, not as much. I'm sure the King of England is very unhappy with this situation.

 

[.Shane.]

Oh, and let me add... so 3 brave students draw guns and try and "hunt" the shooter... then the cops show up. Given the urgency, adrenalin, confusion etc... what are the odds of one of your American patriots getting shot by mistake by a cop?

Again, just another argument against....

@DeL, good points, I'll reply in a bit.

 

[IglooDame]

If the campus was a gun-totin zone, I wonder how often accidental or alcohol-induced shootings would occur.

Don't know about the accidental shootings, I've never seen statistics on the rates of CCW holders involved in accidents. But as far as alcohol (or other induced) shootings, probably fewer than you'd think given the overall rate of CCW holders using firearms in violent crimes.

 

[.Shane.]

Additionally, as we've discussed, ID, this type of gun ownership is not covered by the 2A. But, I think that's beside the point since such a right would revert to a states rights issue, so it doesn't mean it would be illegal per se.

 

[IglooDame]

This is a discussion that cannot lead to agreeance from parties on the opposite end of the question. I'll just say this: giving people the right to carry guns in public spaces is not a solution to the problem of school shootings. The very idea that more guns = more security is exactly what I was referring to when I mentionned the culture that's behind the problem to begin with. I can understand a fascination over a stamp collection, over a weapon, not as much. I'm sure the King of England is very unhappy with this situation.

Does more police = more security?

Oh, and let me add... so 3 brave students draw guns and try and "hunt" the shooter... then the cops show up. Given the urgency, adrenalin, confusion etc... what are the odds of one of your American patriots getting shot by mistake by a cop?

Again, just another argument against....

The possibility is certainly there, unless the police simply cordon off the area and wait for the SWAT team to show up, as they did at Columbine.

 

[De Lorimier]

Does more police = more security?

Does regular Joes with guns = Police?