IOT Developmental Thread

[JohannaK]

He is, he really is. He must be.

 

[Tyo]

If I knew next to something about programming is deffinately try just to see what I get.

 

[NinjaCow64]

If I knew next to something about programming is deffinately try just to see what I get.

Huh???

 

[Tyo]

If I knew anything about how to program, I'd try to program a game.

 

[Civ'ed]

I can do a really basic random generator in python...

 

[WhiteRobber]

ChesterIOT​

spoiler for map

Spoiler :

A map of Europe. Sounds simple, right?
Rules?
1) Everyone starts with 9 provinces, who must have a land connection to each other. So you can be a big round blob or a thin line from Venice to Mecklemburg, as long as nothing interrupts you. Every island is on it's own. If you're coastal, you can also have some islands, but still in the limit, and not too far from your original province (like, if you're Aragon, you can get the Baleares, but no Sardegna. Only exception is Iceland, which is in reach from the northernmost Scottish provinces and all of Norway's coast.
2) Every turn, everyone gets to expand into 5 adjacent provinces. Please avoid encircling provinces or areas, as they will declare independence as NPC's. And you DON'T want that.
3) each turn, everyone gets a fixed income of 25. Call it EP, IP, whatever. Income is spent on 6 things; Military, Espionage, Religion, Trade, Technology and Politics.
Military - spend 5 income to get 1 army. Or spend 100 income to improve armies( a one-time improvement which makes your armies double-effective, as if you have double number of troops).
Espionage - spend 25 income to infiltrate a spy into other players' nations. or spend 200 income to improve spies (a one-time improvement which makes your spies double-effective.) With spies, you can do three things: disband the armies of the target kingdom ( up to 2 armies), claim up to 5 of their provinces, or start a war if you're not already fighting. The more spies you got, the bigger the chance to succeed. it's calculated this way: (spies*10)+25 - (enemy spies*11) = your chance to succeed. Costs only 5 income to start a war with a spy.
Religion - Altough it doesn't make sense, it is considered that every nation has it's own religion, and taking provinces from it results in rebels , defections or independence. So, simple, spend 3 income per new province and they're converted. Or, you can pay 15 income to start a religious movement in another nation. Beware: it may backfire by declaring Independence. Also, simply spend 1 income per turn just to keep the population happy, otherwise you'll wake up with your nation slowly becoming a mess.
Trade - one of the ways in which you can make more money. Every nation has a center of trade. If a nation ceases to exist, the center closes and doesn't give any more income to anyone. So it's good to keep your enemies alive a little more if you're making money out of them. Spend 2 income to send a merchant to any center of trade you want. Every merchant you send will gain you 1 income per turn. once you get 5 merchants, you must pay a tax of 2 income per month to the center's owner ( if it's you, no tax) Max number of merchants from a nation in a CoT is 10.( at which the tax is doubled) Also, spend 20 income to embargo a country from your center of trade. You'll get back 1 income from every merchant you kick. You can also assasinate merchants of other nations from your own trade center for free.
Politics - to declare war to a nation, you msut pay 5 income , to properly prepare you troops and stuff. To make peace, the combatants must agree on terms: either territorial changes, ceding of armies, force the defeated antion to war agaisnt other nation, or a money donation which can be paid anytime and anyway the winenr wants.

TECHNOLOGY is a HUGE factor in your progression.
each technology awards you with bonuses so, unless you want to go down, invest here.
technologies and techtrees; unlocking a techtree means paying a sum of your income. It's small, but it exists. After unlocking the techtree, each technology must be bought in the order you see them, so if you want one of them, you must first get all the ones before it.

Military techtree: costs to unlock - none ( already unlocked)
techs: 1) Border patrol (cost: 5 income) - military units can take over provinces directly adjacent to already-owned provinces. max provinces taken by military units: your total number of armies/5
2) Royal Guards ( cost: 5 income) - provinces of the user with this tech cannot be taken over by one army. At least 2 are needed.
3) Naval Transports ( 5 income) - allows transportation overseas ( altough not too far - for example, someone in Tunisia can now take Sardegna, which was impossible before)
4) Supply Lines ( 5 income) - allows miltiary units to expand further into unclaimed land, being able to take over twice as much provinces.
5) Professional Armies ( cost: 1 income per army owned, doubles current nubmer of armies and doubles number of future armies ( like, if you buy 1 army, you get 2. )

Science techtree: costs to unlock: 5 income
techs: 1) Mathematics ( 10 income) - adds 10 to the fixed income you get.
2) Alchemy (20 income) - armies gain a 20% bonus in battle when defending.
3) Metallurgy - ( 20 income)lowers cost of Military , Trade and Religious techs by 1. (except Professional Armies)
4) Astronomy - ( 5 income) adds 10 to the chance of succes of spies. Will give random warnings when you're going to lose a war.
5) regulation of Medical Profession - ( 15 income) some armies are recovered after being defeated, isntead of being lost.

Trade techtree - costs: none ( already unlocked)
1) Tax Collectors - (cost: 15 income) - ads 5 to the fixed yearly income
2) Trade League - (cost 30 income) - doubles incomes from Merchants, halves trade taxes ( cancels them if lower than 1)
3) Trade Monopolies - (cost 20 income) - ads 5 income every turn for each trade center in which you have more than 4 emrchants. Received income fluctuates depending on changes in trade centers.
4) Even MOAR taxes ( cost 20 income) - player receives 2 income for every existing nation not at war with him. Nobody loses the money actually. The total income fluctuates depending on the player's wars.
5) War Tax ( cost 20 income) - player receives 5 income for every nation he's at war with and 15 is added to the yearly fixed income.


Religious techtree - cost to unlock- none
1) Control of the Masses ( cost 20 income) - makes sure no independence movements spring up in your territory when you least expect it. Unless you have a deathwish, get this fast.
2) Holy War ( cost 10 income) - get 5 armies for every enemy you're at war with. Every new war grants 5 new armies, no matter if you're the attacker or the defender.
3) Crusades/Jihad - ( cost 25 income) - gain 20 armies. You're forced to declare war on at least 3 other nations and use those armies, otherwise your nation will be eaten up by internal strife. Can be bought multiple times.
4) Religious expansion - ( 15 income) no longer need for the 1 income yearly tax to keep people happy. Gives a one-time 30 income.
5) Holy City - ( income: 50) - simply doubles your treasury. (except the 50 income taken as the cost). Can be bought multiple times, but each subsequent time ads 25 to cost


Battles:
You can use as many armies as you want in battles. Problem is: if the enemy splits and RP's about attacking with two armies separately and you don't mention anything about it, thinking your armies can obliterate them, well, yes, you will obliterate ONE of the armies. You can't use the same armies in More than one Battle per turn. So if you've got 10 armies and enemy has 6 and splits them into 6 groups, and you don't split, you'll kill just one and the others will take land. But if you split in 10 armies, you'll have 6 fights and take over 4 lands. Depends on how much you split. Split in as much as you can . This is to discourage "doomstacks' or huge armies.

Also, if your nation get pwned, and destroyed, you can rejoin, just as if you were a new player. Just not in the same place.

Expand, kill, screw people up.
Also, the name of your nation is unimportant. As long as you acknowledge you're human and have only medieval weaponry, (around year 1200), I do not give a pony on your nation's name.
Any questions?

ALSO: existing nations: Duchy of Paris, Kingdom of Copenhagen, Morocco, The Papal States, The Palatinate, Brandenburg, Muscovy, Wallachia , Ottomans and Jerusalem. You're not allowed to question my authority in this IOT and the only way you can offend me is to ask me why these nations are in the game. They're in. Just like that. Accept them or forget it. Also, those nations cannot disappear. You can take lands from them but will always have 1 province elft. Any attempt to take the last one will meet failure
Map of existing nations: http://i.imgur.com/6XQyIuT.png

 

[Mosher]

Limiting expansion is bad. Let players be flexibile about it; give them a way to increase their expansion economically or militarily.

If there's a fixed income every turn, what's the point of expanding? Fixed income is bad with no way to improve it.

Have multiple tech tiers and reduce cost. You can buy 20 armies for the cost of that one upgrade, and having double-effectiveness armies will mean nothing if you have overwhelming numbers.

Espionage is too expensive. Spending 25 income to start a war? What?
My point above in concern to tech still applies here.

If a mechanic doesn't make sense, don't incorporate it.

You have to spend money to declare embargoes? What?
Making trade the only way to improve income is silly. Trade is important, but not the only deciding factor in an economy.
Making your actions determined on whether you can pony up money or RP well is a poor mechanic. You have to go all mechanic based or all RP based; having a middle ground here is only going to lead to frustration and poor game design.

Don't have pre-placed nations before signups unless there's a good reason to do so.

 

[WhiteRobber]

there, edited. Happy?

 

[Mosher]

You still haven't addressed the issue that a flat expansion rate = bad.

Flat income is still bad.

The tech tree is unbalanced as hell - I would suggest redoing it and just having a few simple techs - IE, Army Tech, Navy Tech, Trade Tech, etc that give bonuses that scale with cost and go into infinity.

Having it so that a few NPCs can never be wiped out is an awful idea and making it utterly impossible to remove their last province is just stupid.

Like I said earlier, if a mechanic doesn't make sense, don't implement it. Remove religion or edit it greatly.

Espionage and armies are still broken.

 

[arya126]

My head hurts after reading that.

 

[Bowsling]

there, edited. Happy?

See, no one will have any confidence in your games if you just change the rules after every post of criticism. Make good rules, consult others on certain mechanics you wanna try out, post whatever individual ideas you have here, run simulations, and rip off tried-and-true mechanics when you're stuck for ideas. Then when all the Moshers in this world come along to Mosh your ruleset, you show them up by showing off how great it will work in practice.

 

[arya126]

The Kyratheon Cycle: A First Age

A work in progress.​

Nobody knows what happened to cause it. But it happened. The nations were wiped from the Earth, the seas surged, and the land rearranged itself over the years. Now, in a land taken to being called Europa, people are banding together once more.

Players will express interest in playing. Every player who applies will be rolled by an RNG to determine how many claims they shall have. We are more or less coming out of the Dark Ages, so this is the height/tail end of the feudal system time period, and so chosen by the RNG, players will become Counts (6 provinces), Dukes (12 provinces), Kings (20 provinces), or Emperors (32 provinces). Once the game has started, the map will be filled in with NPCs of various ranks. NPCs will generally be subdued, but will take action on their own upon occasion. Usually, they will only react to the players' actions.

The primary routes of expansion will be war and diplomacy. Via war you can directly conquer something, or vassalize instead. Via diplomacy you can capture a vassal peacefully by getting them to agree to be under your protection. You can only have an NPC of lower rank than yourself become a vassal. You can claim the next titular rank when you hold the above required provinces multiplied by 1.5, and only when you are at peace.

There is a general religion across the land, based around a 'creator' and a 'Dark One'. There are myths that the creator sealed the Dark One in a prison at creation. There are several bastardized versions of this in different regions and no real central religious authority.

The game will also center on your 'House' or 'Dynasty'. For example, you can marry into the line of another and inherit their title, providing a slow and uncertain route of expansion. If your country is annexed it isn't necessarily game over if you married some of your Dynasty off elsewhere, allowing you to take over as that 'cadet branch' of your dynasty and any titles it may hold.

Also debating an AC component, however I am leaning towards keeping that idea out.

Spoiler :

Not sure quite how to deal with technology as I am not sure if I want this to be a Feudal game through and through or be able to transition to a more renaissance tech and see the Feudal system struggle to survive.

Economy has not been developed.

Thoughts are most welcome, but bear in mind this is in its infancy and have not been tested in any way whatsoever.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

How much historical context would there be? I would think that there would be none besides the continent itself (no older cities or civilizations).

 

[arya126]

How much historical context would there be? I would think that there would be none besides the continent itself (no older cities or civilizations).

Some of the NPCs will likely be based on geographical regions or the entities that controlled them in RL once, but they wouldn't relate to history as we know it at all.

 

[Mosher]

, and so chosen by the RNG, players will become Counts (6 provinces), Dukes (12 provinces), Kings (20 provinces), or Emperors (32 provinces). ​

Having VASTLY different starts with nothing to compensate the unlucky people when not in a RP-based game (or one with an already established world) is bad. You have to have something to equal out the starts or, much better for a fresh start IOT, give everyone equal starts.​

 

[Tani Coyote]

Having VASTLY different starts with nothing to compensate the unlucky people when not in a RP-based game (or one with an already established world) is bad. You have to have something to equal out the starts or, much better for a fresh start IOT, give everyone equal starts.

Maintenance for provinces, harder population to pacify (due to more diverse populations), etc.

While some stratification pre-game can make for interesting play it needs to be possible to break the cycle and eventually become something like a major power.

 

[Robert Can't]

The other day I was considering if I would run another IOT after Brave New World and what it would be if I did.

Remarkably the concept I came up with could really fit with a name like Gods and Kings.

 

[WhiteRobber]

See, no one will have any confidence in your games if you just change the rules after every post of criticism. Make good rules, consult others on certain mechanics you wanna try out, post whatever individual ideas you have here, run simulations, and rip off tried-and-true mechanics when you're stuck for ideas. Then when all the Moshers in this world come along to Mosh your ruleset, you show them up by showing off how great it will work in practice.

Considering I'm planning to launch it in 12 months, I think it will be a completely different game by the time I will consider psoting it for real.
I'm just adding features and changing stuff to see if you like it, and if you don't I edit some more, until most of you are pleased.
Since nobody wants to talk with me about MY IOTs in chat, for obvious reasons, I'm doing my best while combining mechanics from existing games. You can't blame me for trying.
Who knows, maybe I will turn it into a Multipolarity game.

 

[Bowsling]

You don't make a ruleset that pleases people. You make a ruleset that is fun, engaging, and dynamic. Then people will join your game. Most people that play IOTs really aren't that picky; as long as you have some degree of formatting and make-it-look-nice and the rules aren't completely broken, people will join. The way to do this is NOT piecemeal sort of editing on the fly for a year so that everyone is "pleased".

Maintenance for provinces, harder population to pacify (due to more diverse populations), etc.

While some stratification pre-game can make for interesting play it needs to be possible to break the cycle and eventually become something like a major power.

By the looks of it, none of those things exist. It's just kind of a "lol im an emperor so i get 5.333 times more stuff than you" game. Unless he actually comes up with decent internal mechanics in which case he will have made every previous IOT obsolete.

 

[arya126]

The idea is based off of a Cold War IOT LH ran a while ago where there were 3 random superpowers, some majors, and some regionals. Each had a declining number of provinces at game start. In my opinion it was fun to have people on top at the beginning, and it actually forced some players (like myself) to seek the patronage of a larger country instead of having all players as equals more or less.

And you do realize that insulting a concept without hard mechanics because it doesn't have hard mechanics just makes your comments irritating right?

Although as a note I'm considering removing Counties and having it be Duchies and up, with Counties and Baronies only 'assumed' to be there. Counties would take a rather skilled player to climb the ranks at anything like a fast pace, while it would likely be easier as a Duchy.

I vaguely remember IB1 having something like the tech idea I just had. Basically players will have 3 tech categories, Army, Navy, Economy. At the beginning, everyones investment is 1 in each, and has an equal chance for an 'invention' by event. As you invest more in comparison to other players, you get a higher chance of getting the next invention. Inventions will likely come every other turn as a rule of thumb. Once a country has gotten an invention, the next turn its neighbors get it, and the turn after that the neighbors of their neighbors get it and so on. The turn after the initial country has the invention, a second country will have it as well, in order to ensure that countries don't get screwed out of an invention just by being across there entire map from whomever got there first. After a certain amount of turns (I think 4-5 would be fair) everyone is assumed to have figured out how this rumored invention works. Smaller countries may get a bonus towards tech in order to leave certain advantages to larger countries not to swallow smaller ones whole. Having a smaller country who is a technology giant on your doorstep leaves you ready to get the invention and its advantages the turn after the tech country gets it.

As for the economy, I think at first it will be based on the amount of land and your stability in your land. However later, if the IOT survives that long, economy tech may make it more profitable to transition to a commerce focused economy. However with trade comes new radical ideas, so as economy tech progresses and you rely more on trade your stability will suffer if you hold vast lands directly (vassals won't count towards this, making vassals valuable). This forces larger powers to decide whether they want to keep economy tech low and get a lower income and normal stability, or in crease their income at the cost of stability by investing in the economy tech.