IOT Developmental Thread

[Mathalamus]

@kangru: fine. if historical accuracy is damned, then ill be the most powerful state in europe.

do people really want this? power goes to my head a little too much.

historical accuracy isnt damned.

 

[GhostWriter16]

@kangru: fine. if historical accuracy is damned, then ill be the most powerful state in europe.

do people really want this? power goes to my head a little too much.

historical accuracy isnt damned.

There must be a balance. SOME historical accuracy should be thrown out. For instance, the Natives should be just as powerful as Europe IMO.

However, not all historical accuracy can be thrown out. You can't have machine guns in 1500. You have to play within the game, and you have to have strengths and weaknesses. Or don't play. Or don't complain when Omega kills you AGAIN.

 

[ilduce349]

HA is important in any game like this. It has to be realistic for people to want to play it.

Also you cant say this.
Nobody can powergame but because it benifits me the game can't be realisitic.

I think the Iroquois colonizing Spain in 1453 is powergaming (at least when Congo did it in IOT2 it was deemed powergaming), yet it could happen according to rules of this game.

start in 1500 give Asians and Europeans a bonus, or we start in the modern age where it isn't needed.

 

[GhostWriter16]

HA is important in any game like this. It has to be realistic for people to want to play it.

Also you cant say this.
Nobody can powergame but because it benifits me the game can't be realisitic.

I think the Iroquois colonizing Spain in 1453 is powergaming (at least when Congo did it in IOT2 it was deemed powergaming), yet it could happen according to rules of this game.

start in 1500 give Asians and Europeans a bonus, or we start in the modern age where it isn't needed.

I'm starting to agree with you that the Iroquois colonizing Spain is a little powergaming. I don't think this should be allowed, at least right away. Europe should be the colonists, but I'd slightly modify the expansion rules to still make it "Equal."

Native nations (American or African) can claim a 7th territory each turn, but cannot expand across the Atlantic or Mediterranian. However, they can expand over smaller seas, for instance, you could expand from Florida to Cuba.

This restriction could be lifted with a technology later, or it could not. You could still gain European land through wars, you just couldn't claim it yourself.

I am asking this be put up for vote if its legal and not too much trouble.

Thoughts?

EDIT: As for Australia, they would be native too but could colonize Oceania from Australia and the East from Ocieana, so theoretically they could expand onto the Asian Mainland, but this is made up for by a far smaller continent to work with than America.

 

[W|M]

NO EXTRA-AMERICAN BONUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mathalamus]

There must be a balance. SOME historical accuracy should be thrown out. For instance, the Natives should be just as powerful as Europe IMO.

However, not all historical accuracy can be thrown out. You can't have machine guns in 1500. You have to play within the game, and you have to have strengths and weaknesses. Or don't play. Or don't complain when Omega kills you AGAIN.

Byzantium controlling just turkey would be the most powerful state in Europe. espically if the economy recovers and the technological scale is caught up.

and, i have a right to complain if omega declares war on me and kills me. espically if he did it just because he felt like it.

HA is important in any game like this. It has to be realistic for people to want to play it.

Also you cant say this.
Nobody can powergame but because it benifits me the game can't be realisitic.

I think the Iroquois colonizing Spain in 1453 is powergaming (at least when Congo did it in IOT2 it was deemed powergaming), yet it could happen according to rules of this game.

start in 1500 give Asians and Europeans a bonus, or we start in the modern age where it isn't needed.

some states are natural powergamers. Byzantium in this history had Superior intelligence ability, superior organization and superior Defenses.

 

[GhostWriter16]

NO EXTRA-AMERICAN BONUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't suggesting a bonus. Ilduce said that that the Iroqoius shouldn't be able to colonize Spain. As they can't really "Colonize" I sort of agree with him. Therefore, I suggested the 7th territory to balance it out, since they can't colonize. Its just an opinion.

I don't have a major issue with leaving them totally equal, but I understand Ilduce's point. They certainly shouldn't be WEAKER or STRONGER but there can be a disadvantage if you have an advantage to counter it.

Also, if you recall, in 1453 the Natives did in fact have more land than Europe, I'm pretty sure Mexico is bigger than England.

 

[W|M]

That was an X-Post, I forgot to edit that in. Anyway, I want to make colonies all around the world when starting as Brazil.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Byzantium controlling just turkey would be the most powerful state in Europe. espically if the economy recovers and the technological scale is caught up.

and, i have a right to complain if omega declares war on me and kills me. espically if he did it just because he felt like it.



some states are natural powergamers. Byzantium in this history had Superior intelligence ability, superior organization and superior Defenses.

*Huff!* As you aren't really "Historical Byzantium" and the land you are surfaced on is all that would affect your power, I don't mind you expanding beyond your little city-state.

However, you can't just say "I have 10 million soldiers because I want to" or "I'm Superior in everything because I am."

You can't make yourself best in everything.

Obviously Math has no intention to change powergaming so he shouldn't be allowed to play. If he does severely powergame I hope Omega kills him.

I think its been clear I've been trying to learn from my mistakes, not so with Math.

If you want to debate those last two paragraphs take it to PM or VM, I'm just putting my opinion out there.

@West India Man- I see your argument, but I also see Ilduce's. I can see why colonizing Spain from America in a Canoe really is powergammy (Not calling you powergammy if its allowed, its just kinda wrong.) Its not a big deal, and of course they have to be able to attack Europe in war, but I don't wanna see Mexico owning, in addition to Mexico, all the Iberian Peninsula, Greenland, and Madagascar for example.

 

[ilduce349]

some states are natural powergamers. Byzantium in this history had Superior intelligence ability, superior organization and superior Defenses.

That made my day. Byzantium has not been a power since Justinian died. Eventually the bureaucracy in Byzantium got to large (ever heard of the quote the Bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy) and the government had no control. The Byzantium killing machine got terribly inefficient and when Islam became the dominant religion in Turkey, Byzantium was finished. They had no control over their own people for the last 200 years. They had poor organization, and thats what lead to their downfall. In the 1300s Byzantium was the most advanced state in Europe but where way behind the Arab and Asian worlds, so I wouldn't say they where superior. Byzantium falling in 1453 was the best thing that could have happened in Europe as that started the age of colonialism. We can thank the ottomans for England ruling the world, if not it would have been china and japan that would have colonized the new world. I wonder how the world map would look if that was the case.

 

[Cull]

CFC has an OT forum.

 

[Arakhor]

Domination, you are the last person to lecture anyone, so leave it out of this thread.

 

[ZeletDude]

This thread is going downhill again :\...

 

[Joecoolyo]

Alright people, get back on topic, or I won't hesitate to bring out the banhammer again

(I'm looking at you Dommy (your already banned, but this decreasing your chances of getting back in), ilduce, and Math)

Now, as for the rules, I was going to explode about how complex it was and how it would be needed to be toned down, until I read the last line.

Multiple GM's (this is basically the cabinet rule, right?) is a great idea, especially considering how much more complex this game will be now.

Though I still have one gripe, and that's making the American civilization penalized for being, well, in America. I still want to make it so every country it on equal footing unless the player chooses not to be (for challenge, I guess). That way, countries would be evenly spaced around the globe (and will allow for some more, shall I say, "creative" countries to be created ), rather than just crushed into Europe.

EDIT: Re-reading the rules you made, it seem as though you said that people can create NPC's upon leaving, I still think there shouldn't be any NPC's (unless the person is planning on coming back, as you stated later) at all. So I think the player should have the choice of either dividing up his territories (which would be reviewed and discussed by the GM's) or just dissolving his country.

 

[W|M]

@Domination: What if the Natives had invented the Galleon, or a similar ship?

EDIT: X-Post, and

 

[Mathalamus]

@Domination: What if the Natives had invented the Galleon, or a similar ship?

EDIT: X-Post, and

the natives have no industrial capability. and no ressearch capability. so, impossible.

 

[Cull]

Alright people, get back on topic, or I won't hesitate to bring out the banhammer again

(I'm looking at you Dommy (your already banned, but this decreasing your chances of getting back in), ilduce, and Math)

Now, as for the rules, I was going to explode about how complex it was and how it would be needed to be toned down, until I read the last line.

Multiple GM's (this is basically the cabinet rule, right?) is a great idea, especially considering how much more complex this game will be now.

Though I still have one gripe, and that's making the American civilization penalized for being, well, in America. I still want to make it so every country it on equal footing unless the player chooses not to be (for challenge, I guess). That way, countries would be evenly spaced around the globe (and will allow for some more, shall I say, "creative" countries to be created ), rather than just crushed into Europe.

EDIT: Re-reading the rules you made, it seem as though you said that people can create NPC's upon leaving, I still think there shouldn't be any NPC's (unless the person is planning on coming back, as you stated later) at all. So I think the player should have the choice of either dividing up his territories (which would be reviewed and discussed by the GM's) or just dissolving his country.

 

[W|M]

the natives have no industrial capability. and no ressearch capability. so, impossible.

But what if they did?

:O Don't call the GM stupid!

 

[DroopyTofu]

I'm really annoyed that everyone was so insistent that the game take place in some time that wasn't modern, yet they say that everyone is entirely equal. I don't see the point in making the game take place in 1453 if we're going to have Brazil, America, Australia, Mexico, or other countries that didn't exist at the time. Does that not defeat the purpose of having the game based in 1453. I'm not sure what the scale would be like, but what if we just let people wait a little bit and start as nations after 1492. I don't mind people starting in teh Americas before then, I just don't think they should be countries that were started as European colonies if the Europeans had no idea that the land even existed in 1453.

Now about Tailless's rules:
If we're going to be having all of this gold stuff and economies with modifiers and all that other stuff, is there going to be someone on the cabinet to keep up with everyone's stuff. I honestly don't think I have the time to get out a calculator and try and recalculate my gold everyday, and I seem to have more time than most people here.

Do you have to keep an army in your territories to defend them? If I took all 3 of my "armies" to someone's border and DOW'ed them on the third turn, could someone else DOW me and march through my land capturing everything while all 3 of the "armies" I had purchased were off in a far away land?

10 provinces to start sounds a bit much. I may just have the start of IOT IV in my head where we started with 1 and then expanded 5 each turn.

And please say that you don't care if we have radioactive sultans or whatever else we want. THat was one thing that annoyed me about IOT II, everyone could do whatever they wanted and any resemblance of reality was lost. You may hate historical accuracy, but you need to draw a line somewhere.

 

[Omega124]

That made my day. Byzantium has not been a power since Justinian died. Eventually the bureaucracy in Byzantium got to large (ever heard of the quote the Bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy) and the government had no control. The Byzantium killing machine got terribly inefficient and when Islam became the dominant religion in Turkey, Byzantium was finished. They had no control over their own people for the last 200 years. They had poor organization, and thats what lead to their downfall. In the 1300s Byzantium was the most advanced state in Europe but where way behind the Arab and Asian worlds, so I wouldn't say they where superior. Byzantium falling in 1453 was the best thing that could have happened in Europe as that started the age of colonialism. We can thank the ottomans for England ruling the world, if not it would have been china and japan that would have colonized the new world. I wonder how the world map would look if that was the case.

Thank. You.

Anyways, Joe, can we have an official vote on whether to use AoEIII and/or RoN? And a different vote if I should handle battles, scince I'm the one whom own the game?