Is Britain about to leave the EU?

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Hmmm, what detailed things are required for Brexit anyway? :confused:

Not being part of the EU seems easy to me since my country manages it everyday.
Surely it is a project that could be completed with a trade deal and 15 minutes of additional work.



It is not strictly necessary to have a trade deal at all.

If one is prepared to accept the risks that (a) the EU may ask UK passport holders to
apply for work permits before seeking work in the EU, (b) the EU may impose some
modest import duties on UK exports and (c) the EU requires the financial services
sector to comply with EU rules for doing business in the EU; there is very little to do.

Not much more than a "We are leaving as of 1 April 2017. Good Luck" letter.

There will be some minor tidying up regarding UK law, but that does not require
any negotiation with the rest of the EU and can simply be tackled afterwards.

Thing is the people who voted Remain are just inventing obstacles.

The people voted "Leave", not Leave providing (a), (b), (c) ..(z).
 
Then there's the 40 years of accumulated legislation that some Leavers love to dismiss as "EU bureaucracy", but will takes weeks on end just to decide what to repeal, let alone getting the various motions through Parliament in an orderly (yet not remotely timely) manner.

"Repeal of UK Legislation implementing European Legislation Act, December 2016"


"Following the vote by the United Kingdom electorate to Leave the European Union on 23 June 2016; the following statutes:

aaaaaa
bbbbbb
ccccccc

zzzzzzz.

are repealed.

Such repeal shall take effect from the end of 1st April 2017.

Signed

[ ]

Queen Elizabeth the Second.



There you go. Simple!
 
"Repeal of UK Legislation implementing European Legislation Act, December 2016"


"Following the vote by the United Kingdom electorate to Leave the European Union on 23 June 2016; the following statutes:

aaaaaa
bbbbbb
ccccccc

zzzzzzz.

are repealed.

Such repeal shall take effect from the end of 1st April 2017.

Signed

[ ]

Queen Elizabeth the Second.



There you go. Simple!

If that happens, won't that create a huge hole in the legal system so that lots of different scams suddenly became legal for example?A lot of people would get wealthy on the expense of the average Briton's health and well being.
 
If that happens, won't that create a huge hole in the legal system so that lots of different scams suddenly became legal for example?A lot of people would get wealthy on the expense of the average Briton's health and well being.
Yes, yes it will.

In fact, every law or provision which is mentioning EU legislation will have to be combed through and considered, or if not, UK law will end up being 40 years out of touch with reality, and Parliament will have to play a lot of catch up.

Of course, all laws about internal matters can be left as is, but everything interacting with the EU or with other entities which previously interacted with the UK through the EU, must be looked at.

It is not strictly necessary to have a trade deal at all.

If one is prepared to accept the risks that (a) the EU may ask UK passport holders to
apply for work permits before seeking work in the EU, (b) the EU may impose some
modest import duties on UK exports and (c) the EU requires the financial services
sector to comply with EU rules for doing business in the EU; there is very little to do.

Not much more than a "We are leaving as of 1 April 2017. Good Luck" letter.

There will be some minor tidying up regarding UK law, but that does not require
any negotiation with the rest of the EU and can simply be tackled afterwards.

Thing is the people who voted Remain are just inventing obstacles.

The people voted "Leave", not Leave providing (a), (b), (c) ..(z).
How about a hypothetical example of a bank in the UK which is handling pension savings for a company in Austria? Perhaps they have a 8-year contract about it, with several clauses about reparations if one of them withdraws from the deal. Maybe the pensions are invested in long-term instruments which can't be sold within the next five years.

What will they do when the UK leaves? Who will cover the costs of ending this deal? Will any of the withdrawal clauses be invoked, so should any of them pay for damages? Should the bank dump the assets at any price so they can return the pension money the company invested with them? If not, who covers the extra costs of transferring the final returns back into the EU in five years time? Should the bank and the company deal with this themselves? Should the UK government and the EU help? How?

Or another hypothetical example: A UK company which makes a special type of heat treated material for a German car factory. Their product is advanced, but not unique, so they do have competition in France. They got the contract because they were marginally cheaper for the customer, which matters with the big volume they are trading. The contract is for 10 years, with an option of renewal, so the UK company has invested in a bigger production line to be able to deliver more products and make more profits.

What happens to them when the UK leaves? Obviously the German company can switch suppliers and go with the French company if the UK one is too expensive after tariffs, but that assumes that the French company has the available capacity, or will have it in time. Good manufacturers have very tiny stockpiles of parts these days, and rely on a continuous flow of parts from their suppliers. Who covers the costs if the UK company can't deliver for a few days, because a problem in customs? And if the UK company loses business in the EU because their marginal cost becomes higher than their competitors inside the EU, what will they do with the expanded capacity? Will the UK government cover their losses for their investment?

"Minor tidying up" doesn't even begin to cover all the questions and dilemmas which arises with the UK leaving. It is fully legal and fully possible of course, but it's going to be a lot of work, and you still have no plans!

Just two years to negotiate about everything and solve all the problems sounds certifiably utopian.
 
"Repeal of UK Legislation implementing European Legislation Act, December 2016"


"Following the vote by the United Kingdom electorate to Leave the European Union on 23 June 2016; the following statutes:

aaaaaa
bbbbbb
ccccccc

zzzzzzz.

are repealed.

Such repeal shall take effect from the end of 1st April 2017.

Signed

[ ]

Queen Elizabeth the Second.



There you go. Simple!

There you go, simple.
 
It seems to me that like Johnson and Gove, he didn't really have a plan for what Brexit would entail. It is very easy to rant about immigrants and EU bureaucrats issuing edicts from Brussels, but I think he realized how complex it would be to extract the UK from the Common Market and the rest of the EU. Given he was probably the face of the anti-EU campaign, people would inevitably look to him to champion the invoking of Article 50. When faced with actual responsibility, Brave Brave Sir Farage decided to boldly run away.

He had no responsibility nor power to do anything. He's the leader of a party that has one MP in the House of Commons and he's not even that MP. No matter how loudly he shouted he was essentially irrelevant to the referendum.
 
You people trying to claim that it's easy and simple to leave a union with 40 years of legislation and treaties, are really not helping... well, staving off the caricatures...

Let's say your dignified protests about condescending treatment ring a lot more hollow now.
 
Well at least it's not 300 years of legislation and treaties eh. Imagine THAT.
 
It would be possible to simply sign the letter and repeal any act that has a reference to the EU.

The outcomes would be random and possibly hard to predict. There might be an anything goes laissez-faire period while things settle - new laws to be drafted and conflicts to be ironed out.

The problem would be that all that effort and upset would be just to get back to a position of stability and predictability similar to which existed before the referendum.

It is possible to do all these things - whether it is desirable or efficient is a different matter.
 
I'd be surprised if the Lisbon treaty contains a clause whereby any UK legislation that was influenced by EU policies must automatically be repealed upon leaving the EU. It's not like they loaned us the laws and now want them back.
 
I'd be surprised if the Lisbon treaty contains a clause whereby any UK legislation that was influenced by EU policies must automatically be repealed upon leaving the EU. It's not like they loaned us the laws and now want them back.
But they are European laws. Clearly inferior to British laws. Why would a UK that was heading out to take on the world lumber itself with regulations on the size and shape of bananas?
 
It is not strictly necessary to have a trade deal at all.

If one is prepared to accept the risks that (a) the EU may ask UK passport holders to
apply for work permits before seeking work in the EU, (b) the EU may impose some
modest import duties on UK exports and (c) the EU requires the financial services
sector to comply with EU rules for doing business in the EU; there is very little to do.

Not much more than a "We are leaving as of 1 April 2017. Good Luck" letter.

There will be some minor tidying up regarding UK law, but that does not require
any negotiation with the rest of the EU and can simply be tackled afterwards.

Thing is the people who voted Remain are just inventing obstacles.

The people voted "Leave", not Leave providing (a), (b), (c) ..(z).

It's more complicated than that. First, it's very unlikely that the UK will not pursue some sort of trade deal with the EU, because that would represent colossal losses. It's not only "modest import duties on some UK goods", as for some sectors the EU market is actually pretty closed to countries outside the economic area. So the UK will have to buy some sort of access to the common market; the question is how much it will pay for it and if it will be forced to accept free movement of people in order to enjoy free movement of goods and capital, as Norway and Switzerland do.

Second, millions of UK citizens work and live in the the EU. The UK can't abandon them to their own luck like that, so again, some sort of agreement will be reached. The other side of that agreement is that millions of EU nationals live and work in the UK...

Finally, there are all the discussions of legislation, standardization, regulations... You can't possibly believe it's an easy discussion.
 
Well, maybe we won't have to IMAGINE that :mischief:

Well maybe we won't. But if that happens it will be interesting if all the Scots who vote to leave the UK will subject to the same sorts of "caricatures" that you referred to, or the same level of ridicule for having "no plan". (Quick answer: no they won't).

Let's leave the EU but keep all the EU laws. Ok.

You say that as if it's somehow a ridiculous premise. Again, if Scotland votes to leave the UK would it therefore have to revert to the laws as they stood in the 17th century? Leaving a political union is about a bit more than repealing laws.

But they are European laws. Clearly inferior to British laws. Why would a UK that was heading out to take on the world lumber itself with regulations on the size and shape of bananas?

Oh look, it's one of those caricatures. Hello caricature.
 
Well maybe we won't. But if that happens it will be interesting if all the Scots who vote to leave the UK will subject to the same sorts of "caricatures" that you referred to, or the same level of ridicule for having "no plan". (Quick answer: no they won't).
That is a decent point that I've noticed too. There was some talk about how uncertain the details of Scotland leaving the UK were, but there wasn't the same level of ridicule. Trying to leave the EU gets a very different sort of reaction than trying to leave the UK, or for that matter Catalonia trying to leave Spain. I think it has quite a lot to do with Scotland and Catalonia being further to the left than the country they're currently in, and with the fact that both would very much like to join the EU immediately upon seceding. A right-wing and/or euroskeptic secessionist movement from some EU country absolutely would be ridiculed in the same way as Brexit though.
 
I hope that last sentence wasn't meant as any sort of justification :)
 
No justifications of any kind, just a comment on how media treatment of left-wing and/or pro-EU nationalist movements are treated quite differently from right-wing and/or euroskeptic nationalist movements. Nor am I necessarily trying to say that they should be treated the same. Just agreeing and expanding on your observation.
 
Well maybe we won't. But if that happens it will be interesting if all the Scots who vote to leave the UK will subject to the same sorts of "caricatures" that you referred to, or the same level of ridicule for having "no plan". (Quick answer: no they won't).
The vote for independance actually seemed to be spearheaded by people who WANTED to win, and not just get popularity point (from my PoV at least, could be wrong).
Of course, if they manage to run it, to win it and then appears to have no plan, despite the looming example of the Brexit side... you can be sure I'll mock them :p
(with much less bile, but still, a mockery target is a mockery target first and foremost)
 
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